jackie hayes

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 10:43 PM) Oh no i can't state my opinion and say i support a team over a player because i disagree with you? Good stuff. You can't state that I support the player over the team, as you characterised everyone who disagreed with you. B/c that's crap. I support the play of the team on the field. I don't support childish, pointless rants by the front office. Show me one post, just one, by anyone who thinks that supporting Frank Thomas is more important than being a Sox fan. If you can't, then use a different argument.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 10:39 PM) LOL. You know you've pissed off another one when they start throwing the F word all over the place. You know someone is being self-righteous when... Well, pick any post.

WOW is that a load of bulls***. I root for the team on the field. And bringing back Frank would have been the wrong thing to do for the Sox. That doesn't mean I have to root for the GM when he's being a complete asshole and absurdly overreacting. Stop f***ing questioning if those who disagree with you are fans of the White Sox. It's a sad f***ing argument.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 10:16 PM) 1998 he hit .265. 1999 he missed most of the last month with an injury and only hit 19 homers. He got paid more than he was worth. He was the one who popped off about his 2000 season when he was worth the money, but then again, maybe not, considering the "greatest hitter in franchise history" failed to get even 1 hit in the playoffs. He was paid nearly $10 million for 68 ABs in 2001. Another $10 million to hit .252 in 2002 and then cried about the diminished skills clause in a contract HE SIGNED. 2003 he was worth what he was paid, but $17.5 million has gone into his pockets the last 2 years for 345 ABs. The subpar offensive years are made even worse by the fact they guy can't play the field. The White Sox signed the contract, too. Why is it the team should be able to hold salary against players, but not the other way around? I think all this salary business is meaningless. And yeah, I know what Frank said about it, and I think he's wrong too.

Robin was my favorite player, fwiw. I went through a long period of hating Frank, especially during the whole diminished skills business. But he did a lot to win me back with his actions the last couple years. Y'all can say that it doesn't count, or whatever the explanation of that is. But it impressed me.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 10:04 PM) And you fickle fans that want to act like a guy wasn't s*** because he unfortunately wasn't able to be part of a magical title run are even more comical. Will somebody please pull up some of the old "fire Kenny" threads from last September? No, you don't understand. The Sox won because Frank Thomas wasn't there. Or wasn't playing. The reason they didn't win earlier was not that Kenny never put together a good pitching staff until last year, it was because of Frank and Carlos and Magglio. Many a-time Todd Ritchie was in the bullpen perfecting his 99 mph heater and 12-to-6 curve, when one of our power hitters would take the opposing pitcher deep. And Todd would become so disconsolate -- "Why could that not be a sac bunt instead?" -- that he would suddenly transform back into the crappy pitcher KW traded for. It makes perfect sense.

QUOTE(Steff @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 09:59 PM) Kenny called. Jerry and him last spoke at his wedding, and have not spoken since. But you aren't saying JR didn't call, right? Frank says in the Arvia interview that Jerry left a message a week after things "blew up". I don't see what difference this makes, anyway.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 09:56 PM) What about saying "my players" and "my staff" don't miss him and are glad to see him go? He speaks for everyone now? And for defenseless Jerry especially...

QUOTE(Steff @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 09:44 PM) Given the relationship between him and Jerry.. IMO.. Jerry should have called. A message from Kenny saying "Yo Dog.. thanks for the memories.. see yaaa" was s***ty. I thought Jerry did call, but only after the situation was resolved (I want to say a week after?), but Frank was expecting a call before they decided to go another way. Which is asking too much, it seems to me -- the Sox couldn't know if other plans would fall through. But in any case, 'I deserved an earlier phone call' is some pretty weak tea.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 09:39 PM) The nerve of that guy. What's he done to derseve something as simple as that? BOOOOO! YOU SUCK FRANK! Seriously, I think it's unrealistic for him to expect that. He was still, I bet, a backup plan, maybe #3 or 4, but they didn't want to tell him they wouldn't need him till they were absolutely sure. But what drama...

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 09:29 PM) Depends on what your definition of "trashed" is. I didn't take it that way at all. Well, he said that he wished they would have called earlier. Can you think of anything more awful? No, didn't think so.

QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 04:28 AM) Here's the thing I don't get....I didn't hear a single rumor that said Frank was going to be brought back to the club. Frank's acting like he thought it was a sure thing he would be brought back. My opinion is that Frank's acted like a jilted ex-boyfriend who's trying to make the Sox look bad by saying they made him promises, etc. I think that's a good comparison. I think Frank even uses the word "breakup". But for me, that's the point. He's wrong, but he feels hurt because he wanted to be back and did everything that was asked of him. It's not enough, not nearly enough, to justify this response. He's whining a little, but he didn't say anything incendiary. Kenny's the one who made a big thing out of this. There's no reason, and it's childish. If you're the one who ended it, just shut up.

QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 04:21 AM) Also, I find there to be a huge difference between complaining about a person's actions (like what KW said) and Frank's comments about how he wouldn't have thrown out the first pitch/attend the parade. After all the comments that Frank made about how important getting the ring was, it sure seems like a bunch of bulls*** now. Disagree completely. I do believe that, to some degree, FT really does feel betrayed. I think he's wrong, and it will go away, but it's not unexpected, and not some sign that he was disingenuous.

QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 04:20 AM) I've had about 3 posts today where I said KW was completely unprofessional with his comments today. I'm embarrassed with all of this s***, and I think it's a pathetic way to start the season for the defending champions. All I know is that KW and Ozzie can do no wrong with many of us right now, but if they have an unsuccessful season this year, they better get ready to have to defend any stop comments they make with the media. Okay, my bad. I can't keep up with everyone's posts on this. I'm won't defend Frank's first pitch comments too much. They aren't good, although I don't think they're nearly as bad as Kenny's stuff.

QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 04:14 AM) Exactly, that was the statement which made me think was a totally asshole. It's almost amazing that a professional would say such a selfish statement like that. Ahh, Frank is unprofessional. Kenny, a team executive, can call the best Sox player ever a selfish idiot, and it's completely justified. Gotcha.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 04:04 AM) Any argument who comes from a so called fan who quit on the team doesn't count. Just want to put that out there. The glacial daverfication?

No, the bottom line is that Frank was the same Frank we've all seen for 15+ years. Not ideal, but if anything, less childish than a few years ago. Our GM used the interview as an excuse to kvetch to a reporter about some personal gripe. Our GM hid behind his owner when it came to justifying his comments. And he looks much worse than the man he was criticizing.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:49 AM) Beats the hell out of me. I just got my pocket scheduels from Grandstand yesturday,and Konerko is on the front of it. Last year it was Mark. You tell me??? Well, last year they hadn't yet won the WS, so I guess that doesn't mean s***, right? But he was a stud in 2000.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:51 AM) Individually, Frank is the best thing to happen to White Sox baseball. I don't think anybody is implying that he's bigger than the franchise. I think you're blinded by the championship. Konerko and Buehrle aren't somehow above Frank just because they happened to be on a team that won the World Series. That's ridiculous. Timo IS White Sox baseball!

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:28 AM) By insinuating that an orgnization is a player unfriendly organization and has been for years is throwing an organization under the bus. Naming players that have left badly years and years ago. The common denominator in all that is Reinsdorf. Not the way KW handles the players, but the organization which includes Reinsdorf in particular. So yes, Frank has done that. Frank is always hurt. He is a big crybaby. Oh my pride. WAAHHHHHHH!!!! But wait, let me tell the papers that I am not the first to lead on bad terms. This organization is known for this. I am not the selfish one. It is the organization that is wrong. That is throwing the organization under the bus. But hey, take it anyway that you want. See it anyway you want to see it. Wtf? Is there an argument there? Uhh, I've said upfront that Frank is wrong. But if Kenny really gets that upset by comments like that, he needs a diaper. Comments that are critical but always polite are nothing to go nuts over.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:38 AM) Your once again missing my point. When looking back on 05 in twenty years, Paul and Mark will be the faces of the team, as they are now. I guarantee I will think about Thomas, as will many fans. The first image that comes to mind is Frank with the trophy. And YOU said it was all about the playoffs -- so why are Konerko and Buehrle the face of the team, not Contreras and Crede?

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:35 AM) Comparing the two is laughable, so I won't get into a phantom debate. There is nothing to debate on this. Oh, of course. That's the reason.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:34 AM) I put it in bold so you can see it better. If the playoffs are the end-all, be-all, I think Blum will be remembered as well as the other two. Buehrle wasn't even the #1 pitcher, after all.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:31 AM) He would never be. He lets his play on the field speak for itself and doesn't get into bashing the organization through the media. Buehrle and Thomas are polar opposite personalities. Stupid comparison. He just talks publicly about playing for another team. Much better.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:27 AM) The playoffs, for me, is where it counts. The man hasnt gotten a hit in the postseason since 93. When Paul leaves, or Mark, its going to be really hard. Those guys for me will always live in my minds as "White Sox Baseball" mostly because of what they did as for the Sox, and being the faces of the franchise when we won it all. While he will go down as the best White Sox player off all time(as he should), I just dont have the love some others do. So losing Geoff Blum was worse news?