jackie hayes

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:13 AM) Frank never said anything like Olivo did? No I don't think he did. Did he say he wanted to stay here? Yes he did, but he is going about it the wrong way. It is one thing to be mad about not being here anymore. It is another to throw your former organization under the bus and accusing them of things. Idon't remember Olivo, Alomar, or Robin doing anything like this. That is a huge difference. Except he hasn't done anything like that. He said that he would have appreciated a phone call earlier. I think he's wrong, but that's a LONG way from throwing the organization under the bus. Maggs called Guillen his enemy. Frank just said he was hurt that he wasn't called. Those two aren't even comparable. They're both wrong, but they aren't even close. Here's what Frank said about staying w/ the Sox: Yeah, it's more detailed than what Olivo was quoted for, but that's because it's Frank Thomas, and not a baby catcher. He makes it very clear that he'd like to be with the Sox.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 03:06 AM) That is not leaving on bad terms. That is just ridiculous. He wanted to stay here. That is all. Frank never said anything like that, right?

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 02:59 AM) You can't say "f*** him then." It just doesn't work that way. If it were just 1 or 2 players who've had a problem with the organization, it would be fine and dandy, but this organization is known to have rocky relationships and breakups. Also, don't forget Curt Schilling as he's said he'd never pitch for the Chicago White Sox. You might like the players, but the players do have alot of weight around the league, especially the star players. To simply dismiss any player who says they dislike the way the franchise handles things is ignorant IMO. It's not really so many. I mean, Roger Clemens and Pedro Martinez, maybe 2 of the 10 best pitchers ever, have both recently had bitterness at their parting with the Red Sox, Schilling's current organization. All clubs have this problem. But that doesn't justify Kenny, not by a long shot.

Ozzie and Fisk were definitely ticked. Robin was, iirc, upset, but much more low key. Plus, so many fans were upset on his behalf (while with Oz and Fisk everyone could see they were done). Miggy was upset, but only behind closed doors. But I guess that counts now. I think Frank is wrong, dead wrong, on the whole 'Sox treating their players' stuff. If he didn't like the diminished skills clause, he didn't need to sign the contract. The Sox indeed did him a favor in tearing up that whole mess. Being wrong doesn't make him a selfish idiot, though.

Here's the quote that most touches on JR. More detail than necessary, so noone here whines about "out of context": That's it? A quote that includes "I've got a lot of respect for Jerry Reinsdorf, I do" is a devastating personal rebuke? What drama.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 02:04 AM) If that the way you feel, thats cool. I'm just saying that it didn't take the latest comments by Kenny to realize that Frank wasn't the greatest teammate. It always seemed to me to be common knowledge. Whether he was a good soldier or not in public really doesn't do much for me. Agree to disagree, I guess. I don't disagree. I don't doubt that he "wasn't the greatest teammate". And the fact is that he was unwilling to be a leader (and probably incapable of it, anyway). But he went to bat for the organization, he even publicly defended the decisions he (judging by Kenny's comments) didn't like, like hiring Guillen. Even in THIS INTERVIEW he said that bringing in Carl was a good move, despite whispers elsewhere that he in fact hated the move. I'm kind of stunned that Kenny didn't take that into account before this idiotic tirade, whatever their personal relationship.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 01:44 AM) Well, if you look at the poll that was just started in a previous thread, most people on here are still quite fond of Frank. Hell, I'm still a fan of his. But its not just a "big open secret" here that Frank was a pain to deal with. Yes, he did handle himself better in recent years. But its still what happens behind closed doors that matters, not what is portrayed through the media. I don't agree with some of the venom being thrown around here, but Frank has kind of dug his own grave when it comes to his reputation as a pain in the ass. And there have been enough clues given from players and management throughout the years to prove this. No, if Kenny wants to spew to Sox management and players about Frank's internal stuff, fine. But when he goes to the press with this, 'Oh he's an ass, trust me,' bulls***, then it better be about something I can see. Because from what I've seen, Kenny's the bigger selfish idiot right now. Then, the main justification he gives is some crap about how he was deeply wounded by Frank's talking about Reinsdorf. Christ, if JR has something to say, let him say it himself. If anything, the talk has been that JR and Frank very much like each other, and I don't think Frank burned any bridges with JR in that interview. So sorry, no, I don't take that sort of stuff on faith. Frank's been a great public citizen for the Sox the last couple of years. In fact, he's won me back after all the whining over the diminished skills clause. Then some mild complaints peppered everywhere with politeness set KW off, and I'm supposed to support KW? No f***ing way.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 01:24 AM) The way the q and a went, I really doubt he was joking. I'm sure he was serious about being productive still, but I can't believe "prime" wasn't a joke. Anyway, as someone around 30, that's immediately how I recognized it, fwiw.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 01:18 AM) For the record, I've been in the "Kenny shouldn't have said anything" camp all along. But I'm also in the "Kenny appears to have good reason to be pissed" camp as well. I don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Actually, I don't care one bit. But in public, FT was a pretty good sport the last couple years. He supported Ozzie strongly in 2004, even though there was a lot of talk (apparently correct) that they didn't get along. He said all the right things this year. Of course, I'm sure it's a big open secret on Soxtalk that Frank would kick every puppy in the locker room.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 01:19 AM) I'm sorry but the comments in that article were idiotic. Your prime is between 37-40? Why not take it further and say that el duque is in his prime. GMAFB. It was a joke... Maybe you're too young to understand this, but people very close to 30 and 40 love to talk about how young they are. 'After all, it's not like I'm 30!' It's tongue-in-cheek.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 12:47 AM) I think at this stage of his career all that stuff was a direct slam at everything JR did to help him. Just my 2 cents. Then why does he mention that the two had such a good relationship? Also, if any of that's true, let's have Jerry say it. I just don't believe that Reinsdorf is sending Kenny out to fight his fights. And if he's not, KW's a coward to hide behind that excuse.

I can't disagree more about there being a "need" for this. I read Thomas's words and thought nothing of them. They were petulant, but not fighting words at all. The whole thing would have faded away, but Kenny just wanted a fight. The GM of a team shouldn't be picking a big fight with the greatest player in that team's history over minor bickering. And then to claim that he's just doing it b/c Reinsdorf is apparently incapable of speaking his own mind is childish.

QUOTE(Felix @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 12:20 AM) I understand where you are coming from, but Frank is seriously acting like a 2 year old. He didn't get an offer to come back after struggling through injuries for the past few years. He's 37, he's not going to get healthy enough to play again. Keeping him around hurts the team, and requires roster spot has to be dedicated for him. IIRC, he showed last year that he doesn't like to split time with someone (Carl Everett), and to keep him happy, he would have to be the teams only option at DH. Since he's so injury prone, it would be a stupid thing for the White Sox to do. Thomas goes down a week into the season, and they are stuck having Joe Borchard DH. I first felt sorry for Frank. He was a great player, and defined this franchise for many years, but now he's just being whiny. He thinks he's in his prime? He'll be hurt in less than a month, book it. He thinks he's a better option than Thome? Last year was Thome's first year of injuries. He's only 35, and has shown in recent years (2003 and 2004) that he can still hit 40 HR and 100+ RBI while posting a high .900's OPS and staying healthy. Has Frank shown that? No. I'm not sure, are you responding to me? I never said the Sox did the wrong thing in letting Frank go. Part of me did hope that he could somehow stay, damn the logjam, but I never criticized the decision, and I was a fan of the Thome trade. I wasn't happy about it, but I knew it was probably the right thing to do. But here you have a player whining about respect, treatment, yadda yadda yadda -- just like a billion other players have, INCLUDING Ozzie and Fisk. So he's wrong, so what? There's no reason to go apes*** like that. Especially when he's only saying that he would have been happy with any arrangement, and that he just really wanted to be on this team next year. And, not that it matters, but his case is clearly better than Oz's and Fisk's -- both of whom were clearly washed up.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 27, 2006 -> 12:10 AM) 99.9% of problems between teams and players has to do with contracts. Frank is claiming his problem isn't with a contract, although he does mention money several times in the article, but with a lack of a phone call, calls that he admits to getting by conceding both KW and JR left messages. I agree that KW should have not gone off, I'm sure he regrets it right now, but I do find this soap opera adding a little intrique to spring training. He does say that the problems started over a contract.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Feb 26, 2006 -> 11:30 PM) You seem to be one of the few that thinks that. Kenny was pushed and prodded until he couldn't just shut up about it anymore. If he had kept quiet, he'd just be a pussy that wouldn't stand up for his own team. From the way it sounds, the players are glad that Frank is gone and this whole thing could be a benefit to the chemistry. KW sees himself as a part of the team, and he won't let a spoiled fatass like Thomas speak so poorly of the organization as a whole. I think that too. Frank's stuff reads like whining, sure, but he sure as hell doesn't call anyone an idiot. He's careful to say he still respects everyone involved, including Jerry. Btw, since when does Reinsdorf need KW to speak for him? Since, of course, that's what Kenny was most upset about... If Reinsdorf wants to go to the press about it, let's hear it from him. Frank: I think things should have been handled differently. Kenny: Frank's a f***ing idiot. Those look similar to you? Ozzie says that Frank never mentioned his name. But Frank did -- in mentioning Ozzie's similar statements when he left. So Kenny, is Ozzie a selfish idiot too?

QUOTE(EvilMonkey @ Feb 26, 2006 -> 03:59 AM) I will be the first to say things haven't been run there as best they can be. One of the Jack-Benny-funny things about war: conservatives swearing that they'll be the first ones to complain about things that liberals have been complaining about for more than a year.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Feb 26, 2006 -> 12:07 AM) I'd have to see it before I'd believe it. So far, this "report" comes from a scout who says he's "99% sure" that that's the score he got. Well, if I'm a scout for the Lions, and I really want Young, why wouldn't I make something like that up? Cuz all teams will have access to that test result, so said scout would have be the type of guy who'd score a 2 on the test to think that a ploy like that would work.

FUDGE!!!

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Feb 25, 2006 -> 09:33 PM) As long as it is Justin, not Jason. Given the rest of the poll, hey, whichever. I vote other: Joe Namath #1, Lindsay Lohan #2, Mike North #3. Do you have any other purpose?

Even junior senators have to make compromises. Imo, it's more important that the candidate is savvy enough that he doesn't say something about voting for then voting against, than that his voting record be sufficiently short. Maybe Obama's that good, I don't know. I don't think anyone knows yet. Warner has looked rough around the edges in features and interviews, but he's got time, and he's been my favorite for a while. Southern Dems are where it's at. But I'm surprised at this consensus that the Dems don't have any positions. Whoever has the presidency will always look more organized, if only because the dissenters shut up. Noone listens to Lincoln Chafee (not a real Republican...sniff...), and Arlen Specter's become the #1 pussy in the Congress. I think I have a pretty good idea what the Dem consensus is. Roll back the tax cuts, do not open up ANWAR, stay in Iraq as long as necessary (although going in at first was a bad idea), increase educational funding, and do not gut Social Security. Fund science, never churches. And following Clinton's successes, do not roll back welfare reforms, pursue free trade (albeit with environmental and human rights caveats), and maintain the blueprint for the Middle East. Of course, there's nothing on health care, but both parties are frickin clueless on that. Yeah, some Dems will disagree on parts of that. But I think all those points would win a good majority of Dem votes. And compared with a party that apparently agrees that evolution is just some pissant "theory", that's a pretty damn attractive platform.

QUOTE(Queen Prawn @ Feb 25, 2006 -> 04:15 AM) When I saw the title, I was thinking he wanted to leave rather than focus on this season. Glad I guessed wrong lol. I, too, cannot wait for the season to start. Yeah, it got my attention quick. "WTF?!?!?!"

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 24, 2006 -> 05:46 PM) If its not within their borders, and seeing as they refused to let the US use their land to carry out the invasion from the north, I don't see where they really have much of a say. They're still a strong ally of the US, and we need as many as we can hold in the region. And this is a BIG issue to them. Allowing an invasion from Turkey was asking a lot anyway, imo.

If it's best to split the country, fine, just chop it up. There's no reason there has to be a civil war to accomplish that. Turkey would f'n flip if there were any attempt to create a Kurdish nation, though.

Now it's definitely passed.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 23, 2006 -> 06:11 PM) This has been a BAD couple of days over there for the poor, abused Bush administration. Fixed.