Jake

Expected throes of despair, saw them, leaving

Recall that Scott Kazmir, who one would assume has a similar value to Samardzija, garnered the A's ... not a single top 200 prospect.

QUOTE (RaySox @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 04:23 PM) I'm sure he'll take us to the promise land next year. No other moves needed. The poster said we had no top 100 position player who could contribute next year, but we clearly have one who can.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 04:21 PM) We have no top 100 position player prospect ready to go for 2016. If they want to improve that team then, they'll do what they did last year. Micah Johnson?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 04:18 PM) of course we're not obligated to...we could instead go into next year with a similar roster to the one we currently have, except probably without Samardzija and with a rookie in his place in the rotation. You can also make trades, have young players emerge and improve, sign good players who don't cost >$100M and a draft pick, etc.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 04:15 PM) Exactly. We will both not be top 10 protected, and almost assuredly have to sign a big ticket FA. We are in no way obligated to sign a big ticket FA. There won't be many anyway, especially if you don't plan on looking at starting pitchers. Heyward will cost a pick, Upton apparently will, and Cespedes won't. There aren't as far as I know any major players slated to be available at non-OF positions

I like it. You can't give up on the team by trading Samardzija, but you can't trust this team so much that you'll pay big for a rental. The problem with going for a bigger deal is that it's not 100% clear where are needs are beyond "maybe everywhere." You can benefit from the information you get over the next two months about which players are going to flourish and which are going to need replaced in the offseason.

So what the f*** are the Padres doing?

Yeah I mean that could be true but we hear this s*** all the time

https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/627199373252792320 Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale 56s57 seconds ago The #Tigers real close to moving Cespedes. The #whitesox involved but not the favorite

If you were an opposing GM, would you rather call KW or Hahn to get a deal done?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) One thing is for sure, between choosing whether to take advantage of the market and sell or to take advantage of your big holes and buy, doing neither is absolutely the wrong choice. I'm still in the doing nothing camp, though I can't object to a hypothetical "we get a great player without giving up anyone I care about" deal.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) Pay him to play meaningless games. That's a pretty expensive draft pick to hang on to. OTOH, considering this GM is pretty new, it would show others he won't cave at the end. I think this is important. If you never stick to what you say, everyone will be able to call your bluff.

QUOTE (woods of ypres @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) I still believe they'll regret not moving Shark. Well I feel quite certain that Sox fans for years will bemoan the fact we didn't get the ultra-massive, franchise-changing prospect packages that we surely passed up on

I'm guessing Nightengale is getting pestered by White Sox fans and decided to just throw out a hollow update

BA rated Eaton's arm as the strongest in the Arizona system before he lost prospect status. He did miss much of 2013 with an elbow problem, though. I think he appears to have a really strong arm but is not very accurate.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) By the sabs, he was nothing but an awful player. Juan Pierre had 4.2 and 4.0 WAR in 2003 and 2004 with 110 wRC+ and 100 wRC+. Those peak two years of Pierre were great and I'd be very surprised if Ben Revere manages to post those sorts of numbers. Pierre's defense graded out as solid to great for the first ~7 years of his career before there was a quick dropoff to well below average.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) If we're trying to contend, how does trading Samardzija and acquiring Cespedes make any sense? If we're gonna buy, then let's buy. It's a lower risk type of buy, which makes sense given our position in the standings

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 12:55 PM) Not when I don't see any long-term value in Avi. I don't think Avi is a good baseball player. If you look at my history of posts, I am typically very patient with prospects, etc. What I have seen from Avi, given his defensive struggles, gives me very little faith in him ever reaching anything close to his perceived "upside". I think if this team intends to compete, it needs to add a very good outfielder. I am okay with then using Avi and LaRoche in a DH roll, with Avi giving our outfielders occasional breaks. But this is the exact type of thing they're trying to decide. Do they do that or send him to Charlotte? How do they split the ABs considering that a straight platoon would mean the younger (and player hitting better this season) player spends a ton of time on the bench?

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 12:08 PM) How to manage roster moves of guys with negative WAR's? I really don't understand what their is to be conflicted about. AVI & LaRoche's combined WAR is -.3 (-.2 and -.1), respectively. I realize WAR isn't the end all be all stat, but it does magnify just how bad both players have been this season. There's more to it than what a guy's WAR is this season. Avi is a young player who you are trying to develop and LaRoche is a veteran with a track record and a big contract that you want to get value out of. It's not a deal where they necessarily think these players are better than rest-of-season Upton or whomever, but you have to figure out how to handle these guys in the ways that benefit the team most now and in the future

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 12:30 PM) If his defense can't improve, he'd have to be a hell of a hitter to be a 2.0 WAR player. His defense is that bad and I don't really see him improving. He gets horrible reads and is just a lousy fielder. And it is magnified more when you have a team built around pitching. Just for a statistical comparison since I can't calculate hypothetical WAR values in my head, Brandon Moss of last year had a net defensive rating of -11.1 runs below average from his time in the OF, DH, and 1B, which is similar to where Avi projects to be (and he'd have a better defensive rating if he moved to LF in all likelihood). Moss had a 121 wRC+, which I don't think is out of reach for a version of Avisail that is panning out--though he would get to a 121 wRC+ in a different way than Moss, who always carries a low average and high walk rate. Moss had a 2.1 WAR and that's with positional adjustments for 1B and DH included. I don't think it's out of reach, especially when we're talking about a player's upside.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 12:17 PM) If he could play defense, I'd be more patient with Avi cause I do see potential for offensive upside. I just never see him being a capable defender and thus he'd have to really really hit and the odds of that are pretty minimal. He has the physical tools to be an acceptable outfield defender, so I want to say he can improve. But he really seems to lack the instincts out there and if he's this bad now, I don't know why he didn't get better in his long minor league career spent solely in the outfield. I don't think the odds of him hitting well are minimal, but we might be having a vocabulary difference as to what "really hitting" is. If his defense can't improve, might be reasonable to say that he has the upside of 2.0 WAR player, which is nice to have but obviously not something you'll mortgage the franchise to develop

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:58 AM) IF their is truth to this, I just shake my head. Overloaded with what. Garcia sucks and LaRoche has not been productive. What overload are we talking about? An overload of crap? They have to decide how to manage roster moves and playing time. It is not at all straightforward and they are right to be conflicted about it.

I think holding on to Shark is a move in and of itself and probably the only prudent one

QUOTE (shipps @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 11:17 AM) But not every player has the same obvious potential showing speed, power and athletic ability. Plus the way he fought to come back early last year from the inury showed he is truly willing to work at improving and has some guts. I like that. To each is own. What's most frustrating is that he lost last year. Lots of solid to great players come up and have the sort of mild struggles at the plate that he's having and eventually put it all together...but now the Sox want to contend and he's the weakest link. Gets a lot harder to be patient with his development. His poor defense also makes it paramount that his bat reach its potential in order for him to be tolerable on a winning team. I think this is a spot where the Melky deal hurts because you really need Avi in LF where his defense might fit better. Of course, Melky is actually hitting, so that makes one of them.