ilsox7

Mistake #2 by Smith. Simply awful there.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 04:52 PM) TED GINN Wow.

Charlie should be publically fired for that mistake. Poor decision. Take the points thius early, IMO.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 04:20 PM) This game is going to be mental. This looks like a Pac-10 game thus far: no defense.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 04:09 PM) ND on the board first... They totally sliced and diced tOSU on that drive. And tOSU missed a couple of big tackles.

QUOTE(danman31 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 04:03 PM) I think it will be a good game with ND in a close one, but wouldn't be surprised by any result that's within 14 points. I'd be happier if a meteor fell over Sundevil stadium and wiped out both programs to be honest. Yes!

QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 03:49 PM) Well said, Rex. I did not watch the game, but blaming losses on officials is one of the most pointless actions in all of sports. Did the White Sox win Game Two because of Doug Eddings? Of course not. I have yet to see a game where the officials were the cause of a loss or a win. By my (admittedly rough) calculations, there were 145 plays in today's Iowa/Florida game. According to ilsox, there were 2 or 3 bad calls. Let's say there were 6. I guarantee that most of the players and coaches made more mistakes than that today. They are accountable, true, but we don't see firings of coaches every week. There will always be bad calls and, as Rex said, no one takes a blown call harder than the official who made it. This will be my last post about this b/c I've said my peace. But I never said you should fire an official for 1 bad call. I also never blamed any official of Iowa (or any other team for that matter) for the loss of the game. I've simply said that these events are so large, and the public has such an interest, that there needs to be some accountability to the public when things do not go right. Obviously people disagree with me and that's cool. I used to feel that way, but recently have changed my viewpoint. These guys go out there and do their best. I don't doubt that. They also feel awful when they screw up, I don't doubt that. But sometimes that is not enough. In many walks of life, gross errors or consistent errors at performing your job can cost you your job. It's been a good debate...I appreciate people keeping it clean and not attacking me. I also appreciate the well-though out posts. It made me think and consider my opinion, which is just that, my opinion.

QUOTE(SnB @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 03:45 PM) I really don't like either school, but I'm pulling for the Irish in this one. I think it'll be a great game. I am looking forward to it. It's probably the only game I will watch from start to finish. I miss the days of having 4-5 games on at a time on New Year's Day. That was part of the excitement for me. Recently, it just doesn't mean enough to me to spend tons of time watching as many games as I can.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 03:43 PM) Let's go Buckeyes! Yea, two teams I despise. I am sticking by my prediction of tOSU by 2-3 TD's. Prepared to eat crow, though.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 03:18 PM) You're just off on this one, I'm sorry. All of your posts are based on one assumption, that there is no accountability. Just because accountability and discipline is not make public, does not mean it does not exist. In fact, I guarantee you it does. There are several things you are missing here... 1. Making the officials full-time is not possible. How much are you going to pay guys that work maybe 14 football games a year? Are you going to pay them benefits? Do you really think you could pay them enough to keep them from other jobs? What do you do with them in the offseason if they do not double up on another sport? Right now these guys get roughly $250-$300 a game (assumptions based on reasonably reliable info, not direct information). These guys might make $4,000 - $5,000 bucks a year. How much better are they going to get if you pay them $40,000? $50,000? Plus benefits? It sounds good, but with logical thought it becomes obvious it is not feasible. 2. You keep talking about how the NCAA bungles things, but the NCAA does not hire the officials. The NCAA really has nothing to do with these bowl games. The BCS was created to make sure the money stayed with the schools, not going to the NCAA. Each conference hires its own officials and contracts with bowl games. The NCAA is not involved here. 3. You talk about discipline when a crew has an awful game like today. Yet, you admit that you didn't see the whole game. The offsides call was made by one official (maybe two), so acting as if the crew was terrible is thinking based on emotion not on logic. 4. Until you have been an official, you don't know that you don't get to see multiple replays from multiple angles. You see the play once, at full speed and have the risk of a player flying by in front of you blocking your vision at any moment. As fast as the players are, it is easy to miss things. Officials miss potential calls every play, but if they don't have an obvious impact or if the TV camera doesn't catch it, no one says a word aside from a pissed off coach sometimes. Walk in their shoes first. See the play from the angle THEY saw it, not what angles the TV shows you. 5. Lastly, officials critique themselves more than you could ever imagine. If a guy misses a call, he absolutely hates it and genuinely feels bad. He works to get better and learns from situations to not repeat mistakes. But like you, me and every one else in this world, we all have days when we aren't at our absolute best, just like the teams on the field. All you can do is ask that they take their craft seriously and work at it. If they consistently make mistakes, their assignments will reflect it, I guarantee it. Humiliating them publicly is just not a good idea. Think rationally, and emotionally, not emotionally. Publicly disciplining officials would only make matters worse. As for accountability, I am sure there is private accountability. My argument is that there needs to be some sort of public accountability. I know that you disagree with that, but I just feel that the sport has become so big and matters far beyond just the result of a game that certain things (not all) need to be made public. 1. I don't think it is unreasonable to make an officiating job full-time. Major college sports are a multi-million dollar business. To have officials out there who do not watch game tape and do not know the tendencies of the teams they will be officiating that week is nonsense, IMO. Just look at the NFL guys and their preparation. If I'm not mistaken, at least recently in the Big 10, officials do not even find out what game they will be doing until a few days beforehand. This is ridiculous to me. College football means millions of dollars to these universities. In the case of a bad crew blowing multiple calls and possible costing a team a game, you are also costing a university millions of dollars. IMO, there are the financial means available to make officials of major college sports full-time. 2. All schools participating in bowl games are NCAA members. The NCAA has shown that they stick their nose into every aspect of collge sports. So why do they not regulate the officials used in games? There seems to be a problem, so why not fix it? 3. I did not watch the entire Iowa game, that is true. However, the parts that I did watch involved 3-4 blatantly missed calls. I should also note that I had no rooting interest in the game, so my reaction is not based on emotions. It's based on the fact that officials are missing easy calls. 4. It's true that I am not, nor have been, an official. Your point is invalid, IMO, b/c there are plenty of officials out there who get the job done on a consistent basis. The guys in the Iowa game today missed 3-4 calls just while I was watching. And by most accounts missed 6 or 7 calls the entire game. Again, I am not talking about calls that are so close (like AJ in the ALCS) that they could miss them, I am talking about calls that are obviously wrong, even without the use of frame by frame instant replay. 5. I know that officials critique themselves on an ongoing basis. I know former officials who work part-time going to games and grading the officials. I also understand these guys can have bad days. However, there is a full crew of officials working the game. When there is a string of calls, say 6 or 8, in a single game that are wrong, I consider it more than just a bad day. As for how they should be dealt with, I will agree that in many cases it should be handled in a private manner. However, when you get to the level of a big time bowl game, there needs to be some accountability to the public. After a performance like today's, I would expect the officiating crew to release a statement accepting responsibility for their mis-calls. I would further expect their bosses to announce that they will investigate the calls and why they were missed. And if any particular official has been constantly missing calls, I'd expect him to be fired. The bottom line, IMO, is that the public interest in these events has become so large that you simply cannot ignore accountability to the public in some instances. Today's game, IMO, is one of those instances.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:56 PM) My suggestion is for you to start studying up and become an official. Raise the level by contributing to the cause yourself. I have no desire to be an official. Nor do I think that I would be particularly good at it. But these guys apparently have the desire and think they can do the job. And the simple fact is that some of them cannot do the job. And it's not just one judgment call that was close. It's not knowing the rules and missing calls that are not close. Maybe making it a full-time job is the answer. Maybe not allowing officials from mid-major conferences to officiate big time bowl games is another answer. Either way, something needs to be done. These guys are being exposed left and right.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:53 PM) Sorry, but I can't go with you on this. You are assuming that there is no accountability because the handling of officials is not public. That is the way it should stay. Officials are held accountable all the time based on what future assignments they get. Sure there are politics like there is with anything else, but mistakes certainly can affect the quality of games and official or officiating crew gets. Officials are fired on occasion. One was recently fired from the SEC as, I believe, was the supervisor of officials. One thing you have to remember is that these guys are being paid for a thankless job. They are part-time employess who have other full-time jobs. Officiating is basically a hobby for most of these guys... a way to make extra money. But they do it because they love the game. The money isn't great. Officials are under enough scrutiny as it is, with their names being shown on TV every game. Publicizing discipline issues amongst college football officials would do nothing but REDUCE the number of quality of officials. Many would decide it isn't worth it. More would not get into it from the beginning. You have to keep in mind, that while these guys are very much exposed in what they do, they are not treated nor paid as full-time employees. Handling things internally is the only proper way, in my opinion. I respect the opinion and used to think the same. I just feel with how big college sports has gotten that it needs to be public. The bigger problem, though, is that they are not full-time officials. This is a no-brainer, but again the NCAA cannot do most things right, so why would they do this right. I just think that when a crew has such an awful game, as they did today, that at minimum they need to release a statement saying that after reviewing the tape, they admit to missing several calls that should not have been made.

Neither Texas or Memphis has been impressive through the first 25 minutes of this game.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:35 PM) Was the officiating fine except for that one play or was it like the Michigan game where they were missing all of the calls? There was also a very poor call in the first half. Iowa was called for a helmet-to-helmet hit that I believe extended a drive for UF and UF eventually scored. It wasn't the right call. Iowa was also called for running into the kicker which extended a Florida drive. Was a close call...could have probly gone either way, so not a huge deal. That's about all I saw of the game.

QUOTE(Spiff @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:30 PM) It's not. If you fire every ref who makes a bad call you won't have any refs left. They're human, mistakes happen, etc etc. Comparing a bowl game to a corporation? Ok, kind of a stretch. Who is going to be the one firing these refs? The conferences, and they aren't going to do that because of some bowl game. A better idea would be hiring the refs full-time, but no let's just fire them all until there's no more left. Where did I say you fire a ref for every bad call they make? I didn't. But you hold them accountable for their actions. When their errors are gross errors, an equal consequence needs to be implemented. When their errors are not gross, but are constant and significant, you again need to implement appropriate consequences. As for the analogy about a corporation, it can be anything: politics, school grades, etc. Everywhere in life there is accountability. And when you are working on the scale of a nationally televised event that is a multi-million dollar event, you're damn right that any errors by an official, coach, player, or sponsor are to be held accountable and in a public forum. It's obvious that even theb est officials will make bad calls. But when you get a crew that constantly gets things wrong, then yes, dismissal is possibly an appropriate consequence. The bottom line is that after tonight's Sportscenter, no one will ever hear about any of the errors the officials made today and those guys will go on doing their job, whether or not they do a good job or not. As for there not being any officials left or them being humiliated: these guys know what they are getting into when they take the job. Just like a politician who knows he is in a public office and must be accountable. Or an office in a corporation knows that if he grossly mis-states the company's earnings that he will be held accountable in a public forum. Your mention of full-time officials is a good idea and has been floated around the NCAA for some time now. But they are too stupid (the NCAA) to implement it. That's what happens when you allow Myles Brand to run an organization. He runs everything he touches into the ground.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:27 PM) And if they had a Big 10 of Big 12 official doing your game, someone would be b****ing about favortism. The same goes if there were SEC or Big 10 officials doing today's game. Yea, but in a game with Big 10 and Big 12 teams, you use a Pac 10 or SEC officiating crew. There are plenty of solutions out there, but the NCAA is a horrid operation to begin with, so I doubt they will get this right.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:25 PM) How about just not having Sun Belt and Conference USA officials calling games if neither a Conference USA team or a Sun Belt team is in it. That's a possible solution. If "lesser" conferences also have lesser officials, then they should not be used for big time games. It is well known that the better the teams/athletes, the quicker the action on the field and therefore, the more difficult it is to officiate. The bottom line is that the guys continuously blowing calls that are not even close needs to stop. If the NCAA wasn't so lazy, maybe there would already be a solution.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) Iowa was the one down 31-7. Next time don't wait 3 quarters to play well. The refs didn't help and i thought it was an awful call however the refs weren't responsible for Iowa getting down 31-7. Although Conference USA officials calling a game between an SEC team and a BIG 10 team is a joke. I don't think anyone is saying the game was lost b/c of the officiating. Just like Michigan, Iowa pretty much sucked for most of the game. But blatant errors by officiating crews are all too common and they need to be held accountable for their erroneous actions.

QUOTE(Spiff @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:17 PM) You don't fire them and publicly humiliate them because they miss a call, use your brain for five seconds. Do you honestly think if they do that that anyone is going to want to ref games with that possibility hanging over their head? Just cause you're bitter doesn't mean there should be a public lynching. First of all, don't tell me to use my brain for 5 seconds. Second, I am not an Iowa fan. Never have been, never will be. Third, this world and every business functions on being held accountable. College football is a public event. Just as public corporations are required to make aspects of their company known to the public, college sports should make aspects of their operation known to the public. Officials are an integral part of sporting events. Just like, say, expenses are an integral part of a business. When people screw up and overspend, you're damn right it's made known to the public and there are consequences. Just as there should be consequences for these officials. A simple press release stating: So and so was relieved of his duties as an offical for XXX Conference would be easy enough. Again, there should be accountability. How's that for using my brain?

QUOTE(Spiff @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 01:57 PM) Yes, that is a great plan to find better officials. It's called being accountable. These guys are not being held accountable for their gross errors. They are officiating public games that bring in millions upon millions of dollars to these universities. To allow such errors to go unpunished is inappropriate. And because it is a public event, any consequences should be made public. Holding people accountable for their actions often makes for more quality work.

Another blown call ruins a possible great ending in the Iowa game. They need to start firing these officials and making it public that they have been canned. These guys are simply awful.

Good to see the Hoosiers kick some ass tonight. Up 25 as of now. Marco was in foul trouble all night and only scored 7, but the three pointers were dropping. Overall, a good, solid pre-conference run. Only bad loss was to Indiana State. Gave Duke a run for their money without DJ. And pretty much killed everyone else, including Kentucky.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 11:09 PM) Some of you guys were spot on when you said Oregon deserved a BCS bid over Notre Dame........ There were no at-large bids in the BCS this year, therefore by those rules no one else had a claim to a bid. Had there been an at-large bid, many of us supported an Oregon bid over an ND bid did so not based upon who was the better team, but who actually deserved the bid. Sound crazy? It sure is. But the set-up of the current BCS is to reward teams who earn the bid over the course of a whole season and not the team that actually may be better. Basically, the system blows.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 08:24 PM) you think they should play Gutz? He was supposed to be the starter last year but he had a problem with his arm and he got surgery for it. I'm really not sure. I think that Henne should be challenged though. If he depends that much on his RB to be good, then we have a problem. For all of the supposed talent that team had, they sure did suck. And part of that has to fall on the coaches, if not most of it.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 06:46 PM) Avant's play had nothing to do with it. The Michigan defense held them and forced a punt. That henne play was not a fumble. The replays will show this. Replays showed the Henne fumble was inconclusive at best, and most likely a fumble. As for the Avant play, it killed momentum UM had. When he made the catch, I believe he had a first down near midfield. Meaning UM was another first down or two away from pretty much icing the game. Stop making excuses for players you blindly love.