gosox41

QUOTE(SouthSidePride05 @ Jun 30, 2007 -> 09:19 AM) Have you noticed all the casual baseball fans across the country seem to love the Cubs? They root for the Cubs because they're fools. I think you answered your quesiton in your question. They're casual baseball fans. The Cubs are marketed well, and most people like a party atmosphere. What's not too like about the Cubs if you don't know jack about baseball??? Bob

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 09:22 AM) Not to be a jerk, Bob, but have you noticed the attendance at Marlins games? They have won 2 WS titles in the short amount of time they've been in existence and they still can't get a sell out. White Sox fans will only take losing for so long. Remember how many attendance threads were on this board in 2005, on our way to winning the WS? Actually, I think Kenny's got it right, you have to do more of an Oakland/Atlanta thing where you rebuild on the fly and try to keep winning. The first place-last place-first place thing is too tough on the fans/front office/players. At least TRY, which is what Kenny did. His players have been hurt and maybe he was short-sighted on players like Erstad not getting hurt again, but hey, look at Dye, he was an "injury risk" and he turned out to be our WS MVP. Being a GM is hit or miss...and hopefully you can be more hit than miss. Obviously there are some better than others, but I think overall, Kenny is on the top end of GMs in this league. So, selling the farm is not an option for this team. By the way, as much as Jerry and the Board of Directors have been slammed on this board and in the media, they/he has brought the city of Chicago 7 World Championships, which is more than any of the other owners in this town have done. I see your point and we agree on most issues. The biggest thing that has cost KW this year and could hurt the team in the next few years in the lack of a productive farm system. I agree that KW is a good GM when it comess to making most of his trades. But in order to rebuild on the fly, a team needs to have a good farm system to supplement it. That's why Oakalnd and Atlanta are able to be competitive every year. Sure they make smart trades, but they're not big in the FA market. They always seem to have minor leaguers ready to step in and be productive major leaguers. The Sox don't have that after 7 years of KW drafts. It's laugable how poor they have been. If the Sox had a farm system, I'm all for rebuilding on the fly because it's a realistic option. If the Sox had an unlimited budget, they can easily rebuild on the fly. But they don't have either. Waht they do have are approximately 8 holes that will need to be filled by average to above average major leaguers next year for this team to contend. Where are they going to come from given the amount of money locked up in current contracts, the lack of minor league talent, and a limited budget? That's why KW's almost forced to rebuild completely...to suffer for 1 year instead of being bad to mediocore for many while we hope he rebuilds a farm system. Bob

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 07:10 AM) KW consults Paulie and asks him for roster advice. No way he goes anywhere. Agreed. Bob

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 26, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) Could you elaborate on who these studs are? It depends on the team. I'm just saying that a guy like Garland should be able to be traded to a team with a good farm system and get at least 2-3 of their top 3-5 prospoects. Do you think there's no demand for an 18 game winner that's owed approx. $15 mill over the next year and a half? What about a team like Atlanta with that catcher they have. What about Arizona and their deep system. Don't know names for sure, but I do know that spending $40 mill in free agency this off season isn't going to fill as many holes as one thinks. Bob QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jun 27, 2007 -> 12:09 AM) Kenny hasn't considered any of this. He has no idea how much his players are making, how many years they're signed for and it has yet to occur to him that he has a lot of money already locked up in a certain group of players. He has no idea that he has a lot of holes to fill and very little room to work with. He doesn't know that Buehrle is a FA next year and he doesn't know yet that Crede is on the DL. He doesn't know that the bullpen is a complete mess and he doesn't know Dye isn't putting up numbers close to last year. He still thinks Thome will slug them to a World Series because he's the left handed power hitter the team has needed for so many years. He doesn't know that Jose Contreras is old. He doesn't know why french fries are called "french" fries. He doesn't know who Razor Shines or Ozzie Guillen are. He doesn't even know who he is. Why do I keep seeing these kind of threads? Kenny Williams isn't a moron. He understands what's going on--it's just a matter of whether he can work through all these restrictions in a timely matter. Are you sure he thought of these things? Has he also thought that the way to build a team that ocntends year in and year out and avoid making purges like these is through a strong farm system? Because if he has thought of it, he's doing a lousy job executing it. So, I'll try to dumb it down for him a bit until he does what needs to be done. I have an idea, let me fire the scouting director 5 years after the fact he purposely drafted the wrong guy in the first round of the 2002 draft. And let's replace him with another in house candidate instead of going outside to a team that actually has a history of strong farm systems and hiring someone from there. zOh wait, that's not sarcasm, that's reality. Bob

Before KW begins his rebuilding, I would like him to take a few facts into consideration: 1. Detroit, Minny, and Cleveland will be good to very good the next few tears. 2. Based on my calculations, the Sox have $55 mill tied into 6 players next year with guaranteed contracts-Vazquez, Garland, Contreras, PK, Thome (I only included $8 mill since that's all the Sox are paying) and AJ.I'm too lazy to look up Mackowiack and McDougal's contracts as well as Ozuna's. 3. Assuming all White Sox free agent's walk after this year, the sox will have 9 glaring holes to fill: 1 SP, at least 3 relievers (unless they reach their potential quickly), 2B, SS, all 3 OF posiitons. 4. Crede will get a 1 year contract worth $4-4.5 mill making it $60 mill tied up in 7 players. The Sox won't release him but may trade hm if he proves he's healthy. So, assuming the payroll stays where it is this year-and taht's a big assumption because there will be a decline in attendance this year--do you think you can spend $40 mill and fill 9 holes to legitimately compete with the rest of the division? Sure trading Buehrle may get you 2 studs and you'll get something good for Dye. But will this be enough? I don't think so. Now is the time to start an almost full scale rebuilding. Don't trade everyone, but get pretty damn close to it. The money saved by trading now with the added payroll flexibility added with the prospects we will receive can make this a very quick rebuilding process...if KW does it right. IMHO, Garland is the player with the most trade value on this team. He is pitching the best and signed through 2008. What's preventing the Sox from getting a great offer for Buehrle is that it's his walk year. Heck, even teams are scouting Contreras. As much as I like him, there's something to be said of getting a good prospect or 2 for a $10 mill. pitcher with an ERA near 5. KW needs to make this team younger, faster, and more fundamentally sound. If it means trading good pitching now to get 2 stud prospects for Buerle, or 3 studs for Garland or a couple of good prospects for COntreras then do it. Because this team has too many holes too not do it. Unless KW can figure out how to fill 9 glaring holes with $40 mill., it won't matter how well Garland, Contreras, and Vazquez pitch next year because an OF combo of Erstad, Ozuna, Sweeney, Mackowiak, Terrero, Gonzalez, Anderson and anyone else I'm missing that's under contract for next year is pretty awful. Paying $5 mill for Uribe and his .270 OBP is terrilbe. I hope KW has thought this through. Because to come into 2008 and maybe ne an 85 win team next year isn't worth keeping a guy like Garland or Contreras who will leave town after 2008 anyway. Might as well trade both of them now while teams are willing to give up more talent since these guys have that extra year on their contract at a realistic price. I hope KW gets it. I have a feeling he's going to try to rebuild on the fly. And I don't think that's a good plan considering the divison we're in. If this were the NL Central, I'd be looking to buy right now. But it's not. So unless the minor league system starts producing good players overnight, it's time to ake a step back this year to take many steps forward in the upcoming years. Do you think KW realizes this? Bob

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 06:27 AM) Rogers has flip-flopped on the Garcia and McCarthy trades several times now. If you searched the Tribune archives, about 6 weeks ago he wrote a column saying 'I admit I was wrong to criticize these moves.' Screw him. What pissed me off more then that was the whole comment about signing Ordonez and LEe. The Sox won by getting rid of those guys and using the salary to fill many holes. Would anyone here seriously trade 2005 to have Lee and Ordonez back? I wouldn't and I don't think we'd win with those 2. Because as Phil has often mentioned, how can you win when you have slow, right handed power hitters throughout the lineup. Bob

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 08:05 PM) It's especially odd since Stone has said in the past that Grady is the best young player in the game. I suppose he was simply trying to say that the Indians would be willing to trade away a piece of their outstanding offense in order to fill a glaring need at closer since they're pretty damn close to a World Series caliber team right now even with a putrid backend of the bullpen. FWIW, I interepreted Stone's comments as the opposite of whoever started this. I believe he said the Sox weren't shopping Jenks and Boers or Bernstein popped in with Grady Sizemore. It was vague, but Stone said something about the team flying him off. I think he was referring to the Sox in getting rid of Jenks, not the Indians doing that for Sizemore. Bob

QUOTE(briguy27 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) 498 Is there anyway he can wait until July 27 to hit 500 so he does it at The Cell That would be nice but I doubt it. It's good to see his bat finally wake up. He should be hitting better then he has been. Bob

QUOTE(greg775 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) . I don't want KW fired, but he has done a piss poor job this season, not Oz. Exactly. Is it Ozzie's fault that when Erstand and Pods go down we get Terrero and Owens. Is it Ozzie's fault none of the relievers can get anyone out? Is he misuing them or are they just not very good. I'll go with not very good. Bob

QUOTE(Jim Spencer @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 09:12 PM) Well the Knights game just ended and Sweeney was not pulled out of the game. God, I don't want to see Jaq Jones in a Sox uniform Neither do I. It's about time they called up Sweeney. They must not really like Anderson at all because he's a righty and not being called up. Bob

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 07:57 AM) Both conditions would be met. The sox have to be looking toward 2008. With 3 OF spots open, getting one half of a platoon for either LF or RF wouldn't be that bad. So I can assume that the Sox won't give up any minor leaguers who will ever see the majors??? On the flip side, what current Sox minor leaguers have a chance of actually being good in the majors. I still don't think the Sox should have to pay him anything. Bob

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 10:33 PM) hmm, according to this board I thought we had a great farm system. Glad I listened to myself instead of the youth on the board. unfortunately Wilder blows as well. I hear you. There's certain people that post here and elsewhere that would jump on people for questioning KW over the last 6 years. Something about how he inherited a mess from Schu and it takes years to fix. Also something about Borchard and Rowand and jock straps. But I digress. The proof of the pitifulness of the Sox farm system is obvious and has been for years. Schu's farm systems were a lot more productive then KW's. And while Schu was not a great GM, at least he drafted some major league talent.. Firing Schafer is a good start, but this whole system needs a complete overhaul. It's time to hire outside the organization ideally from a team that consistently produces major league talent. It's also time to follow hte blueprints of the teams (ie more scouts) and get something going here. Bob QUOTE(Soxfest @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 06:17 AM) I love how KW said" He is tired of the safe pick" yet the Sox will not draft a high talent Boras client for example just like in this years draft and Schaffer was not involved in Porada pick. Sox management is in total denial. I have this to say to KW: I'm sick of the stupid picks. Safe or high risk/high reward, why spend $1.5 million on a reliever when you could have had a Blanton? Stuff like that is what kills you. Almost any pitcher can be a reliever, in fact most ML relievers today used to be starters. But it's hard to find good quality starting pitching. Bob

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 07:48 AM) This would be the most frustrating moment in my Sox life. I don't think Ozzie is the problem. Bob

QUOTE(palehose23 @ Jun 23, 2007 -> 06:45 AM) I asked for this months ago and it seems like this is imminent per the Score. I just threw up in my mouth. This is terrible. 2 condiitons have to occur for me to make this trade if I were GM: 1. The Cubs eat his contract 2. We don't give up anything more then a bag of balls in return. Why take on a bad player with a bad contract when this team is out of it. We should be selling not buying. Bob

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 02:28 PM) Then don't trade him. The Sox are almost guaranteed to get 2 draft picks for Buehrle, and those two picks can go towards replenishing the system. You get atleast 1 top prospect along with two other solid players or 2 top prospects, otherwise negotiations have no chance of going anywhere. I would agree with you, but the Sox haven't been so good at drafting lately. Bob QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 11:06 PM) Yeah, pretty much. If KW's asking price is going to be those 3 players then my 85% chance of Buehrle not getting traded goes up to 100%. It'll be pretty funny when the Cardinals finish with one of the 15 worst records in baseball, sign Buehrle in the offseason and the Sox get the 35th and 65th picks in the draft as compensation. Would you trade Garaland for those 3 players? How good does the Braves #1 prospect project to be? Will he be that good offensively and defensively? Bob

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 09:36 PM) Farmer needs to go. He is getting senile, if he isn't already, and arrogant as hell. I hate listening to the games on the radio, and Farmer yelling "That ball hit way back... caught by the left fielder deep. he really got a hold of that one! Just not enough" And then when I watch a replay of that play, it turns out that it was a pop up no where near being a homer. Also, how did we come by hiring Singleton over Tommy John? I'd take Tommy John anyday. I'd hate to bring this up, but if the Sox get rid of Singleton, aren't they going to hire a minority for the position. And that's fine. As long as it's someone with some broadcasting experience and is good I could care less who they hire. Bob

QUOTE(Brian @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 06:37 PM) We had/have scouts? We have guys who cRry the title of 'scout'. It doesn't mean they're any good at it. Bob

QUOTE(Allsox @ Jun 17, 2007 -> 12:17 AM) Hmm, I always felt something was off with the Sox scouting dept when it came to scouting upcoming opponents (Ever notice the scrub players on other teams kill the Sox besides the star players?) but I didn't know they lacked in the number of them. Very interesting pts, although didn't KW say the dept was already on notice at SoxFest? KW did say that, but those are just words. The fact is if they are outmanned, and there's only so much that can be done to compete with teams like the A's, Braves, and Twins. But the Sox minor league system speaks for it self. Heck, we lose 2 starting OFer's and they didn't even call up their 2 top OF prospects. Instead we have Terrero and Owens. I hope KW and his scouts pull off some srewd deals when they trade Buehrle, etc. Because if they don't, and they don't sign good FA's, next year could be worse then this year. Instead of KW putting the scouts on notice, let's put KW on notice in regards to the farm system. He's had 7 drafts so far to turn around the alleged mess that Schu left us with. I'm still waiting for a good impact player to be drafted and developed. Bob

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) You mentioned Floyd specifically and kind of put him down. You wrote it as if it were fact - not opinion. I think he has a ton of potential. I don't know what he will be, but I would not judge him on it just yet and I didn't - you did. Give him time and don't jump to any conclusions. I hope you're right. I would love for him to reach the potential you think he has. By saying he has 'a ton of potential'can I assume you like him to be a #2 type starter or better? Bob QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) And KW... please keep trading young minor leaguer players for minor league veterans with virtually no upside. He got lucky with a few trades, but I am not convinced he will be able to rebuild this franchise. He made some great deals...but most of his recent deals have been garbage. I question that to. KW has that football like mentality which works great in baseball if you have a good talented team that has a legit shot at making the playoffs. But lack of awareness or patience in player development won't work well competing in the MLB financial environment which is extremely different then the NFL. It also won't necessarily make the Sox better then the Twins, Indians, and Tigers in the next couple of years. Bob

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 12:19 PM) OK Bob - but how do you know what Gavin Floyd is? How do you know he is not a 200 IP 15 Win guy? I hope he is and rubs your face in it. How do you know they aren't marketing Ozzie's name in Ven.? It sounds like you know what is going on, but yet you couldn't possibly. I don't know for certain any more then you do. I haven't seen him but I've read alot and have seen his numbers. I hope he turns into a consistent 20 game winner, but I have a bad feeling about this guy. Also, the Sox didn't draft this guy. Imagine if we had drafted a guy with some potential and then traded for a potential future 15 game winner be it Floyd (which I doubt) or someone else. Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility. Bob QUOTE(gosox41 @ Jun 16, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) I don't know for certain any more then you do. I haven't seen him but I've read alot and have seen his numbers. I hope he turns into a consistent 20 game winner, but I have a bad feeling about this guy. Also, the Sox didn't draft this guy. Imagine if we had drafted a guy with some potential and then traded for a potential future 15 game winner be it Floyd (which I doubt) or someone else. Having a strong farm system gives the team a lot more flexibility. As for marketing in Venezuela, maybe they are. But it's not working. List for me the number of signings the team has made directly from Venezuela since Ozzie has been manager. Bob

KW: I really appreciate what you have done for the Sox. Nothing will beat winning the Series in 2005. But we live in a 'What have you done for me lately' society and here we are 2 years later, not even in contention for the WC. You spoke numerous times abuot about avoiding being bad, which is what this team is now. You speak of emulating the Braves as well as the Twins and A'. And those are great organizations to model after. There is one huge difference in why those teams are competitive year in and year out on siginificantly lesser budgets while the Sox have only 1 playoff appearnce (albeit a hugely successful one that none of the 3 teams listed has had lately) under your tenure. It comes down to the farm system. The Sox farm system is bad...really really bad. The proof is right here on the field. Guys like Prinz, Bukovich, Day, Terrero, Gonzalez and Owens are a big reason the team is bad. Injuries have hurt the 2007 Sox but there is no depth in the minors as has been proven as of late. Of course certain Sox fans like me have been raising questions about this for the last 4-5 years, but we've been told we're ignorant and don't know the game. While I don't know the ins and outs or scouting I do know 2 things: bad baseball and business. So here comes the unsolicited advice for you: It's been reported that the Twins have 3 times as many scouts as the Sox. I don't know if that number is 100% accurate but they're scouting department is definitely bigger then the Sox. My suggestion is that you go out there and increase the number of scouts as well as player development personnel. Make it the same size as the Twins. They compete every year by spending less. They're a lot more fundamentally sound and outside of 2005 have consistenly beaten us in the standings. Now we all know scouts don't make much money. So this isn't a huge expense for the Sox. And if you hire competent enough guys, it's an investment that pays off huge. Let's use Buerhle as an example since he is the most significant starting pitcher the Sox have drafted and developed since 1989. Over the last 7 years, based on my calculations the Sox have paid Buehrle about $40 million. It's a lot of money. And this year he is going to leave as a FA and if speculation is correct, can get another $75 mill over 5 years form somebody else. Wouldn't it be great if the Sox internally had 1 starting pitcher the drafted that can be a potential 15 game winner with 200+ innings waiting in the wings? Wouldn't that be a much better option then Gavin Floyd? If said pitcher did exist, the cost of keeping him just until free agency will more then make up the extra cost of expanding the scouting and player development area while in the process helping the team win games. Now I relaize that 15 game winners just don't happen, so the Sox may not necessarily have a 15 game winner waiting in the wings of any given year (though I would hope after 7 drafts you would have sometihng close or better). But what abuot the benefits of having other prpoductive players waiting in the wings to add depth in case of injury. Andy Gonzalez? Sure he's a good kid and plays hard, but he's not a future starting middle infielder for a pennant contending team. Same thing with Owens and Terrrero. Having a productive minor league system would add depth and would limit these 3-16 streches. Don't like having a SS with a .260 OBP making $5mill?? That's OK because with a productive farm system you can have a better offensive player for a fraction of the cost. Now if this team wins more, more people show thus helping the team pay for that increased scouting and player development area. The Sox have squandered so many opportunities the last 7 years when it comes to the farm system. You have Ozzie Guillen, a huge name in Venezuela who is loved and just won a WS. Why not build off it and start sending some scouts down there and sign some of those guys that aren't draft eligible? Use Ozzie's name and marketability to make this team better for the future. What are you waiting for? Instead, we get to watch the Sox draft the sons of the front office department. Are they legit prospects or guys who got drafted because daddy works there. We already wasted a pick on your son once so he could get a college scholarship so now we have to do it again? It's almost as bad as drafting Schueler's daughter. Anyway, that's my free advice. I hope you use some of it, unless of course you either 1. Enjoy losing or 2. are going to have a NY Yankee type of budget. Bob

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Jun 15, 2007 -> 04:40 PM) Did WSCR not give money to Soxtalk when it came calling? Jeez, whenever Mike North is involved, this board always takes the other side. Like with the Ozzie situation as well. I love the Sox, but every day its another situation where the players, staff, management act like immature jerks. Grow up and play baseball better. All these ills will be relieved. I think North is a fool for even sugggesting the sox are laying down and not trying. Yeah that's it Mikey. The Sox don't care and everyone of them said: 'Screw winning or losing, screw the money I can make if I pitch well, I'm going to go out there and not try' That's exactly what's happening, right? North is an idiot for even going in that direction. I hope he takes Imus' job so I can listen to WSCR in the mornings. Bob

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jun 14, 2007 -> 12:39 PM) given our current issues, dunn makes no sense. So are you saying the Sox don't need another slow, one dimensional player whose one dimension is power to come in and whiff 100+ times per year? Bob

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 03:21 PM) Mark and JD should definitely go and we should be able to get A LOT in return. I'd also strongly consider dealing Iguchi. I'd keep AJ because, despite his salary, we have nothing behind him. I owuld trade Thome. An aging, injury prone DH who can't hit lefties doesn't fit in with a rebuilding team. I'm sure we can get something good in return for him with his power and the fact that he comes relatively cheap in salalry for a 40HR/year hitter. Can't the Twins or use a DH? They have prospects worth trading for. Bob

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) We've seen them all a little so far. Who are you most impressed with? Is death an option? Bob