gosox41

QUOTE(bmags @ Jan 22, 2007 -> 11:37 PM) honestly, i don't see what is the big deal over whether we trade for minor league talent and they come up and are successful over drafting them and coming up and being successful, it's the same outcome and it's scouting either way. Not necessarily. It's easier to scout minor leaguers then it is HS kids. It also has a lot to do with money. The Sox for example, do a crappy job drafting pitching. So they should change there philosophy or not pay $1 mill or more for a first round pick. While pitching is the hardest to scout and no pick is certain, there comes a point where one can tell if a team does a good jobb draftng and developing pitching or a lousy job. Luck is a factor of course, but it's not the only one. Bob

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2007 -> 11:02 AM) That was sarcasm. Grilli is in the bullpen and having a ton of success with the Tigers. Someone used Scott Ruffcorn to argue that liek 90% of our prospects don't pan out and we should just consider giving up on them, so I fired back that list of guys who started struggling and who the White Sox shipped out, only to have them become successful in other locals. Maybe this should be broken down further. The Sox do a lousy job drafting and developiung pitchers. Most of the guys on that list we got thru trades/minor league FA signings. KW needs to improve on this. In 6 KW led drafts, all there is to show pitching wise so far is McCarthy. Bob

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jul 5, 2006 -> 07:54 AM) Anyone ineterested in Roeper's book? It's only like $15.00, I might pick it up. http://www.suntimes.com/output/roeper/cst-nws-roep03.html I just finished it. It was a good book. Bob

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Jan 12, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) Chris Stewart traded to Rangers OK, someone explain this to me. While I don't think Stewart is a top prospect, he is the best the Sox have if AJ and/or Hall go down. Why did we trade him for a 22 year old Single A pitcher with not very good overall numbers. Please tell me it's not because he throws hard. Also, I'm just wondering when KW was a player, did he have a hard time hitting the fastball? Maybe he figures if he couldn't hit it, no one else can either. Bob

QUOTE(Butter Parque @ Jan 9, 2007 -> 11:05 PM) I was thinking about our bullpen after reading the 5 reasons the sox should contend, and if Aardsma and Sisco both make it out of the bullpen, is it possible that the Sox could have one of the hardest throwing bullpen's of all time? Aardsma- He has a fastball that tops out in the mid 90's, even though for awhile last year he was topping out at 93 mph. MacDougal- Can get his fastball in the mid to upper 90's. Jenks- Consistently gets his fastball in the mid to high 90's. Masset- I don't know much about him, but from what I've heard, he consistently throws in the mid 90's. Thornton- The lefty with the soft delivery is consistently able to get his fastball in the mid to upper 90's. Sisco- From when I remember watching him the last couple of seasons, he pretty much gets it in 92 mph-94 mph range. I know it doesn't mean much, but I think it would be pretty cool to have one of the most powerful bullpen's of all time. At least it should be interesting to watch. It is cool. But speed doesn't make a great pitcher. I hope KW realizes that. Bob

QUOTE(MinnesotaSoxFan @ Jan 12, 2007 -> 02:22 AM) Who is more valuable...A Rightfielder who plays everyday or a Starting Pitcher who plays once every 5 days...Seems like a no-brainer to me. This mentality is what caused the Sox to be disappointments in 2000-2005. For example, for getting about contracts and years before FA, I would rather have Johan Santana then JD. If Minnesota offered you that trade would you take it or reject? Now back to reality and the Buehrle and Dye scenario. I would rather keep Dye over Buehrle, buit not because Dye plays every day. I'd do it because Buehrle is not a dominant pitcher and Dye is an MVP caliber player. Not to be too nit picky on this whole topic of paying a guy who plays everyday or paying for a guy who's out there every 5th day. But last weeks Trib had some idiot Cub fan use the same logic to justify paying Soriano and not using it to pay for a pitcher. Bob

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 31, 2006 -> 03:44 PM) Milledge has been available ever since he pissed off the Mets veterans and coaching staff. I'm not sure what he did to piss everyone on the Mets off, but is this someone that's worth dealing with in the clubhouse? Also, how great do people think he's going to be? He may be a good ball player, but is it possible that the NY hype has made this guy better then he is? I'd hate to see this guy turn into the next Daryl Boston. Bob

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 29, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) Like we agreed upon yesterday, this Mets scenario just infuriates me right now. KW should have waited to make any McCarthy deal until he saw where Zito was going. I thought the same thing. How does Pelfrey rank vs Danks? Bob

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Dec 25, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) This offseason is a huge indictment of the Sox scouting and minor league system. They've weakened the team in 2007 (and beyond in the case of McCarthy) to bring in a level of talent that should already have been in the system. That's what irks me about the KW regime. The first couple of years he was here and people questioned the Sox farm system the alleged experts would jump on you saying it takes years to clean up Schu's mess. Well it's been 6 years and the system is worse then before. In fact, when it came to producing young talent, Schu does cartwheels versus what KW has done. Both guys were GM's when the team was getting late picks so that's not an excuse. There's something rotten going on here. Who has KW drafted that has been a difference maker? I realize KW has traded prospects for a win now philosophy, and that's fine. But of those guys traded or still with the team, who has turned out to be an above average major leaguer? How about average? So far I can't think of anyone who has made a big impact, either with the Sox or with another team. And that's bad. Especially when you look at how teams with lesser resources have been above to sustain long runs of winning with a pay roll siginificantly lower then the Sox 2006 payroll. So let the so-called minor league experts praise Kris Honel (no surprise a HS pitcher blew his arm out) to the mighty Royce Ring as solid picks (I remember reading how he was the most major league ready player in the draft and how KW was drafting closers before Beane) but the question to KW in regards to drafting and developing minor league talent is: What have you done for me lately?? I hope things improve, but it's hard to be optimistic. I realize drafting is far from an exact science but there are teams that do it and do it well. The Sox can't even be average at it. One can even argue that if the Sox had any sort of legit pitching prospects, they may not have needed to trade McCarthy. Bob

The McCarthy trade has really thrown me for a loop. I get the logic, if they think McCarthy isn't going to be as good as Danks. Even if Danks is as good as McCarthy and one of the other guys becomes a decent reliever it was a good trade. I just have some random thoughts regarding the resent stock piling of power arms and especially the McCarthy trade and would like other people's thoughts or clarifications: 1. Is Danks/Floyd ready to start the 2007 season in the majors as a SP? Isn't that asking a lot. I thought KW had a plan to actually develop young guys and not rush them. On a similar note, didn't KW once comment on McCarthy learning the ropes from the bull pen and how he prefers this method for young pitching. If so, then if the team is trying to win in 2007, it definitely wasn't a good idea to trade McCarthy. 2. If KW had done a better job of drafting pitchers the last 6 years, do you think he'd still trade McCarthy? I mean the Sox haven't done a good job at all of this. Broadway is a #4 guy at best. Haegaer may bebeen the best of what was in the minors for the 2006 Sox and I'm not quite ready to anoint him a pitching savior. 3. The Ardesma (sp?) for Cotts trade makes little sense. I trust KW and his scouts, but I don't see Ardesma statistically being that much better then Cotts. Add the fact that Cotts is a lefty and it makes me wondre more. If the Sox were looking to go wtih young pitching, do you think Cotts should have been given a shot as a starter? The more I look at it, particular trade was more a salary dump to save $1MM for a team that doesn't need to dump salary. I think Cotts has more value then Ardesma. Maybe Vazquez will be the sleeper of the trade. 4. KW has a love for power arms. And I have no problem with them, but just because you throw hard doesn't mean you'll be a good pitcher. Being young and throwing hard means you have a lot of value. It doesn't mean you're guaranteed domination. Is anyone else concerned about having 5-6 relievers that all have the same best pitch? Based on the need for speed, I'm wondering if Haegar will get a fair shot. 5. KW's legacy as a GM is going to be determined by this offseason more then any other (including the 2004-2005 winter). He is setting a course for this organization by having a plan and executing it. If this team sucks in 2008-2009 people will refer to thos offseason as the reason why. I give KW credit for having the guts to do what he's doing. And I trust the scouts a lot more when it come to finding minor league pitching then when it comes to drafting college/HS players. But we have to hope the scouts are right on about these guys. 6. I don't think KW is done yet. Hopefully he doesn't get fleeced in a deal for an offensive player. The starting pitching, IMHO, is weaker because right now our 5th starter has zero to very limited ML experience and we don't have a 6th starter waiting in the wings that I have confidence to be a success in 2007. Bob

Maybe I'm mising somthing but wouldn't Aubrey Huff be a good fit for the Sox. His asking price keeps decreasing and he could probably be had for 3yrs @ $8MM per year. He can play LF for those who want an upgrade over Pods (more HR's and slightly higher OBP). While the Sox we'll miss the SB's, there's not many 50 SB guys available right now. He can also play right in case Dye goes down and he would add some pop there. But more important then him being a left fielder is he can play 3B. If I remember correctly he has played there before. He would be an excellent insurance policy if Crede goes down. Andhonestly, until Crede's breakout offensive year in 2006, he hasn't been as god as Huff. It also gives the Sox flexibility if the Sox trade Crede. I'm not condoning this, but if someone offers the right amount for him, I'd seriously consider it. Odds are Crede is as good as gone once he's an FA. If he hits in 2007 and 2008 as well as he did in 2006, he will cost close to Aramis Ramirez money and still have the back issue. But again, the purpose of Huff is to serve as an insurance policy if Crede goes down and also be the regular LFer. Thoughts??? Bob

QUOTE(Jeremy @ Dec 25, 2006 -> 01:12 PM) Definitely. The Mexican League performance is exciting. I still don't think he cracks a top 100 though and I'd say you need to be in the top 30 or so to be considered "top notch" or elite. He may not be Top 100 and I haven't seen him pitch to form an opinion, but that doesn't mean he can't be a very good reliever. I have to trust KW, his scouts, and Coop on this one. High rankings are nice, but not every major leaguer was a top 100 prospect, especially when it comes to middle relievers. If minor league rankings meant success, then I must have missed all the victories Rauch and Ruffcorn got the Sox over the years. Bob

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 17, 2006 -> 02:54 AM) He actually didn't say that, at all. He said it will be a minor more that won't catch much fanfare,meaning a smaller move, but something that they feel is important. I still think it will be for a backup C. As long as it's not Sandy Alomar. Bob

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 08:41 PM) It was in the Trib a few weeks back that Zambrano would be looking for a 6 year $15M ($90M) per deal which really doesn't make sense to me. Zambrano could easily get a larger contract than Zito from someone next offseason, why would he settle for any less than a $110M contract? He won't. The article was written a few weeks ago before the market really became insane. Also, it was written in the Trib. What better way to make Zambrano look selfish then to throw a number out there and then watch him ask for a ton more. Bob

QUOTE(beck72 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 05:47 AM) To answer my own question, by the looks of it, other teams who are looking for a top SP could include the Rangers, Mets, and Cardinals. With the talk about how the sox have heavily scouted the Rangers farm system, I could see the sox hooking up with them. And KW not too worried about seeing them in the playoffs. Re: the Mets, it was reported the sox asked for Humber and Heilman for Freddy. While it may have been too much for Freddy, it probably wouldn't be enough for Jon. Though Minaya would likely want Javy instead of Jon. I'd rather keep Garland and trade Vazquez. Also, if the Sox do trade Garalnd, I hope he gets traded to the NL Central which pretty much means St Louis or Houston. I'd also like to screw over the Cubs. Bob

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 08:04 AM) Why wouldn't you kick the tires on Hernandez? He has front of the rotation stuff, if you can keep him from getting hurt. Exactly it's a low risk/high reward gamble. It sounds like the issue is his healthy more so then his ability to pitch. The Sox have Herm to help with this. Bob

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:46 AM) The whole process of thinking is not changing, but your right it could backfire with the fans. But that is because fans, for the most part, are stupid. There are only the select few who actually have a clue what is going on, and most of them post here. I still, by itself, like the trade of McCarthy for Garcia in our rotation, add in 2 good prospects and I'm happier. I agree about the fans being, for the most part, stupid. I actually like this trade. The reality is that no matter what happens in the 2007 season, they were not going to be able to hold both Buehrle and Garcia in '08. And if they did keep one of them, it would be for about $15 mill per year which takes away resources. These Sox fans that don't get it, and there are more then I'd like to admit, will be the first ones not showing up for games the second the Sox fall out of contention. It's unforntunate, but true. That being said, if the '07 team makes the playoffs (and further) then these same fans will be at the ballpark in '08. The only difference is the '08 team now has a better chance to contend since they are gathering a plethora of young pitching. While some of these guys will falter, some will succeed and be very good. And while the Sox will have a some good young pitching on the cheap they can take advantage of teams that screwed themselves this winter by falling for what I call 'Carl Pavano Syndrome'. remember that every team that signs free agents for big money aren't going to make the playoffs. Some will eventually have to rebuild/salary dump and KW will be right there with the flexibility to screw these teams over. Bob

QUOTE(BaseballNick @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 10:15 PM) All of this talk about trading Crede now, while we can still get something for him, angers me as a Sox fan. There were 2.9 million fans who passed through the gates of The Cell last year, leading me to believe there money for Joe somewhere. Setting aside the "Josh Fields Experiment," why can't we sign Crede to an extension? We are no longer in the same class as the A's, Royals, etc. where we monitarily can't keep our developed players and we've proven that by signing Paulie and offering that huge, $70M contract to Magglio in '04. So why is KW still boycotting Boras clients? Boras represents a lot of the top players in the game, so obviously we're denying ourselves of the top tier free agents ever year when we refuse to negotiate with his players. FAs represented by seemingly every agent are being overpaid in today's market, so the argument that his clients are too expensive doesn't work any longer. Can someone please explain why we're giving up on Joe and why we refuse to negotiate with Boras? I think they're are a couple of things to consider here: 1. While the Sox did draw 2.9 million last year and will hopefully do the same this year alot of those fans are bandwagon fans. One of the reasons KW has to be careful with how he handles trading one (or hopefully 2) of his starters is because the Sox need a strong base to build off of in 2008. When this team stops winning 90 games and isn't legitimately in contention, attendence will fall to the 2.3-2.5 million range. The Sox aren't a circus like the Cubs where people come for the beer and happen to watch a baseball game. It's an unfortunate reality but it is a reality. Let's say hypothetically Crede gets a 5 year $13 million deal. In 2008 the Sox will have committed $57 mill to PK, Crede, Contreras, Garland & Vazquez. If attendance stays where it's at (or improves slightly) that will posible be 5 players taking up slightly less then 1.2 the teams payroll and some major holes to fill. 2. Crede has a bad back and is a higher risk. 3. Pitching matters. I'll take a very good starter over Crede if all other variables were equal. 4. Boras has offended a lot of teams. It's still no excuse for not dealing with him, but Boras has burned bridges. His way of doing business, while legal, may leave something to be desired. In other words he's slimy and I can see where teams don't want to deal with this guy. Ask Ned Colletti. Boras just pissed off a big market team. Bob

QUOTE(Steff @ Dec 2, 2006 -> 05:05 PM) The kids love their dad too much for her to do that. She does what's best in that regard. That's good. While Frank was no saint during the marriage (I remember seeing him after home games at the Hunt Club many a time), I've heard some nasty things about her. Bob

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 04:46 PM) With figgins in CF, crawford in LF, where is PODS playing that he is hitting 9th? I hope to god you arent suggestion Figgins as an everyday 3B. It's not ideal but IMHO it's a better option then Fields. I know Crede is a great glove and all and Figgins isn't nearly as good. But if Ozzie can justify Mackowiak in CF then I can see Figgins at 3B. Also, while it looks like Pods is back, if the Sox are able to trade him, the OF would be set. I'm not sure what the plan is, but being as the Sox just re-signed the guy I'm going under the assumption that he is the starting LFer for next season, but you know what they say about assumptions. Bob QUOTE(BobDylan @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 04:50 PM) Should've checked my facts on his power. As far as what you say about Carl Crawford, I'm one of the biggest Crawford supporters on this board. I'd be more than willing to give up McCarthy for him...however, the team has needs. If they land Figgins, I wouldn't shell out McCarthy to get Crawford, a player, at that point, the team wouldn't REALLY need. (Though, he still could be needed if Figgins is the replacement at 3B, not Fields.) But as I think this out a little more clearly, I seem to be changing my opinion. If TB wants a front line starter (not two and a top prospect like somebody said), then they'd have the chips with either Santana/McCarthy and still have a solid 5 rotation. I honestly can't think of many teams that 1. have 4 front line starters and 2. are willing to trade 2 of them for Crawford. TBay can ask for a King's ransom but it sounds like what they want are 2 young stud pitchers that can win 20+ games and aren't arbitration eligible so they don't have to pay. The reason I mentioned 4 front line starters is because if a team foolishly trades 2 for Crawford, is any team going to expect or hope to win with a bunch of 3-4-5 type starters making up the whole rotation? Bob

QUOTE(Craig Grebeck @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 09:25 AM) Prove it. I hate this bs statement. There's absolutely no proof that a lineup with 3 guys who suck at getting on base but are fast (oooooo) will not slump. I don't know how to prove it with math. But think of it this way. Pods is back, like it or not (unless KW trades him) so his OBP will be about the same. Crede has a career .308 OBP and was at .323 last year. Add this to his first breakout year and a bad back and it makes it that much more tempting to trade him. Figgins had a .336 OBP last year and .345 for his career so he's been better then Crede at getting on base. Crawford's OBP was at .348 last year and .326 for his career. The beloved Brian Anderson was at .290. This is an upgrade right there. And please don't bring up Mackowiak at CF as me (and most) don't see him as a viable CF option unless you want to get into a defensive discussion. I think this team needs to be more balanced offensively. People that were advocating for Manny and getting excited about a 3-4-5-6 combo of power and slowness isn't the answer. We might as well go back to 2000-2004 Sox. But a lot of speed adds a different dimension as it eliminates base clogging, imrpoves bunting, and is a great distraction for an opposing pitcher. Bob

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2006 -> 11:54 AM) I do like the idea of trading 2 starters, but I would keep McCarthy. I also wouldn't mind Crede being traded if they could come up with a better replacement than Fields. Crede is a great defender, but he's has as many great offensive seasons as Gary Matthews Jr., and his agent and his back will most likely always be an issue. If the Sox get Crawford, Figgins could be at 3B. He may be a better option then Fields right now. Bob

If T ed Lily is turning down 4 year $37 million contract offers it tells me that KW needs to trade 2 starters and max out on the insanity out there. This is a golden situation that doesn't come very often. First trade I'd make is the Garcia/Crede for Figgins and Santana. It leaves the Sox with 6 starters and adds more speed to the line up. Ozzie wanted more speed on this team last season and now he will have it. It also frees up $10 mill to fill other holes like the stealth bullpen the Sox need. The second trade gets a little tricky. It involves one of 2 scenarios. If you believe pitching is the key, then you go with scenario 2. If not, Scenario 1 is the best option: 1. Trade McCarthy (and others) for Carl Crawford. It's exciting to think about a line up where your 9,1, and 2 hitters can steal a combined 150 bases. The offense would have more flexibility then the 2006 offense as speed doesn't slump as much. Crawford would be a great #2 hitter behind Pods/Figgins. Bat the other guy 9th. Move Iguchi down to 6/7 in the order and watch his power numbers increase as he's no longe sacrificing himself as much. 2. Trade Garland (or more ideally Buehrle since he's in the last year of his contract) to the Rangers for the rumored deal of Danks, a second pithcing prospect, and Otuska. Instantly the bullpen is improved with Otsuka. Either Danks or the second pitchig prospect would compete for the 6th spot with Logan. For the record I'd trade Buehrle before Garland but Garland probably has more value since he under contract through 2008. This trade sets the Sox 2007 bullpen and also starts setting the starting rotation for 2008. If these young guys are as good as hyped, then I can see a rotation of Contereras, Vazquez, Santana, McCarthy, and Danks for the '08 season. It's 4 experienced starts plus Danks who supposedly has a high ceiling. But now is the time for KW to make a splash and fade the insane moves of overpaying for mediocre pitchers. In 2008 the price of signing FA pitching is going to remain or increase from these high levels and I would be annoyed to see roughly 10% of the teams payroll tied into a Ted Lily. Now is an opportune time for KW to strike while the iron is hot. Bob

QUOTE(Hatchetman @ Dec 2, 2006 -> 07:54 AM) KW has been pissing away draft picks for years with similar moves. He has and he hasn't. The way I see it is that it's nice to stock pile picks, but what good is stock piling them when they yield such little return. In this situation I think the risks were greater that Riske would return for $2.5-3M then another team would sign him. And while I'm not trying to be too negative on the Sox farm system, the way the Sox have been drafting lately, they would likely squander that pick and blow about $1M in signing bonus for another flame out (unless they were able to trade him for something.) Bob

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 2, 2006 -> 02:16 AM) this is seriously underpaying for a leadoff man of his caliber. Pierre cost so much more, so did Durham and Roberts. Seriously a bargain I totally agree. I can't believe how many people want to make so many changes to a 90 win team. Is it better to tie up $6 mill a year in Roberts or $9 mill in Pierre and leave the Sox with less resources to fill out the bullpen. At least I hope this will end the cries for Manny Ramirez. Bob