gosox41

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 15, 2006 -> 06:38 PM) Ugh. This sucks... Detroit has something like ten games (including today) with KC and Baltimore down the stretch. KC has been playing better lately. While not a good team, they're not the same team that sucked in April and May. Look at the tough time they gave Minnesota, Boston, and the Sox lately. Bob

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Sep 15, 2006 -> 03:34 PM) Your missing the point. The other night when McDougal was not available his pre-September options were Riske, Cotts, or McCarthy. We have seen that movie before. He wanted to see if Hermanson is worth anything. He needs to use the pen and see what is out there. Other than McDougal, Thorton and Jenks, there is nobody. Guillen is hoping Hermanson can get him something. The pen will be fine if they make the playoffs but they need to get there and they need some help. A starter goes out there for the playoffs to fill in this gap. I get the feeling McCarthy is done for this season, playoffs included. I agree with you that they need the expanded pen to get to the playoffs, but based on some recent performance by guys that would be on the playoff roster, how can you be so sure the pen will be fine? Bob

QUOTE(Steff @ Sep 15, 2006 -> 06:04 PM) No links I see. But for s***s and giggles... 1. Yep, Frank and his manager got into a pissing match. A manager the entire team hated... and a manager that wore egg on his face when Frank's injury came to light. 2. Questioning managements decision to break up a team that had the ability to be a postseason powerhouse... clearly cancerous behavior. :rolleyes 3. An injury that ended up being valid and nearly ended his career... 4. Wanted to be a DH because he knew, and told the team, that his injury was a hinderance to him playing 1st to the best of his ability... 5. Frank and Jerry are closer than most fathers and sons - Williams hated that relationship because Jerry always put Frank ahead of Kenny Thomas was ALWAYS a team and fan guy. NEVER a management or leader guy. Big difference. Frank Thomas isn't with the 2006 Sox, so what exactly was your point of, incorrectly by the facts, calling him out? You're wise to be done. That puddle is just about at your ears. Exactly. Wasn't it J who stepped in and renegotiated Frank's contract after KW exerciesed the diminished skills clause? Frank gets a bad rap, but most of it is due to his inability to handle the media. All the incidents mentioned earlier painted Frank as the bad guy, but there was more to each of them. Frank should just speak with his bat. Which reminds me of a quote, by either KW or Ozzie. Now that Frank has played in 2 consecutive games, is he free to talk now? Bob

QUOTE(DABearSoX @ Sep 13, 2006 -> 08:36 PM) First AB: single Second AB: double Third AB: triple Fourth AB: homerun Fifth AB: walk that is one hell of a cycle Someone's playing for a contract. Bob

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 10, 2006 -> 04:43 PM) I think Morneau reflects what the entire team thinks about the Sox though. This thread does bring up a good point, about how maybe we could luck out with Santana not pitching that final wknd if they're already in. If Minnesota has the division clinched they'd be fools to start Liriano and Santana against us with the playoffs starting that Tuesday. That being said, I'd be flattered if Minnesota rated the Sox that high that they're rather screw up their playoff rotation to beat us. If I'm the Twins, it's a no brainer that Santana is the Game 1 and Game 4 starter. Liriano would be 2 and 5. If they want one of those guys to start Game 3, and have Garza or the injured Radke or Silva pitch games 1 or 2, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Bob

QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 12, 2006 -> 09:52 AM) Crede for Figgins is just too much like Lee for Pods in terms of ability. I just can't see KW and JR wanting to get rid of Crede though. I think the Sox will trade Garcia to the Angels for a package including Chone Figgins. I can see them trading Crede to a different team for pitching. Not that i want to see Crede go, but if he's unsignable then in the right situation he should be traded. Bob

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 05:20 PM) For the people trying to rank where our system is, I would like to know how much time you personally have spent evaluating the other 29 MLB teams' farm system and how exactly you are rating each team. How about we blame the OTHER team's farm system for that player who flopped??? Who cares what an old minor leaguer goes onto to do as long as the trade worked out fine for us? Jeez, Bob give it a rest already. KW won, he's not going anywhere. No big name minor leaguers in the farm system = we either traded them all away or our system sucks. Minor leaguer gets playing time in the MLB with another and does some things over a short period of time = We're stupid for trading him away Minor leaguer we traded away gets playing time in the MLB with another and flops = our fault because he was originally a product of our system (regardless of how much time he may have actually spent with the Sox.) Let's clear things up: 1. I used to be anti-KW it's no secret. He made some pretty dumb moves when he first came here. I'm not asking for KW to be axed anymore. 2. Go back and read my posts (here or at other sites) from say the winter of '04 on. That's when I turned positive on KW and gave him credit for making intelligent moves. This was before he won anything and I was giving the guy credti for making solid moves. 3. I was in favor of the Vazquez trade at the time and while I've been disappointed in Vazquez mid-season performance, go back and show me where I ripped KW on this. I don't care if Young hits .300 and averages 30HR's and 30 SB's for the next 10 years. It was a way to solidify the pitching staff. 4. I've spent zero time scouting our minor leagues, hence the reason I was asking for opinions in this thread. I wanted to see what people more familiar with the system thought. 5. The Sox will need a strong farm system if they want to continue winning. Whether it's to make trades or bring up to help the team they'll need it. Because like most people aroung here know, if the Sox don't make the playoffs for a couple of years, there's a very good chance attendence can drop. I'm not saying it will go down to 1998-1999 levels, but a drop of 500,000 wouldn't surprise me, and that could mean n extra $15-20 mill in revenue. 6. I do follow baseball enough to know what other teams are doing to sustain winning. I can see waht teh Braves, A's and Twins are doing to sustain winning. It's one thing for Tamp to use all their high draft picks to get a ton of talent, but it's another to see the 3 teams I mentioned consistently contend. Sure none of them has won the World Series lately and Atlanta is having a down year (I'd take 14 playoff appearances in a row, heck I'd be thrilled with 2 right about now) but the A's and Twins have excellen chances to make the Series this year. Of course I don't have a crystal ball so maybe you can share with me who the 2 WS teams will be in 2006 and who will win it all....... So back to the farm system. Is it good? I guess that's compared to what. I see the Pirates and Cubs and we're way better. But they suck. So let's hear your opinions. You sound like you watch a minor league ball and follow everything more then me. How do the Sox rank? Who are the impact players on the horizon? Share some of that insight. Because coming after me for comments I made 4-5 years ago is silly. And if you don't like the subject being discussed, why post? Bob

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Sep 10, 2006 -> 07:39 AM) The West coast trip looms large. As long as the Sox don't piss their pants out there, they have a shot. I still cling more to the wild card. As bad as Detroit has been, they still have 6or 7 left with KC, a team they have manhandled. I hope the Sox can get on a roll here. History suggests that you don't want to have to win 2 or 3 that final series in Minnesota. KC is a different team now then they were earlier in the seaosn. They've actually been almos decent the second half. Hopefully they can play the role of spoiler for Detroit. Bob

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 02:58 AM) And what he's doing now is peanuts compared to what he did in his prime. And people have the nerve to question whether this guy is a first ballot HOF. Heck, there are many White Sox fans who absolutely hate this guy for some stupid reason..

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:17 PM) This is all hindsight now, but Jenks had to start the inning. I agree. If Ozzie had brought in Hermanson or Thronton and they did what Jenks did, Ozzie would be ripped by media and fans alike---and deservedly so. But now that the fans and media can see (as well as Ozzie) that Jenks hip problem is a bigger deal, then we can understand why the next cosing situation goes to someone else until Jenks feels better. Bob

QUOTE(danman31 @ Sep 9, 2006 -> 03:03 AM) You made his point for him. For the players we got in return Rauch and Majewski is an incredibly cheap price to pay. Francisco can not be considered a big loss at this point in time. Young is the concern but he also mentioned him. Exactly my point. Rauch was so hyped up (BA Minor League Player of the Year) that there were some who predicted he'd be a stud starter to maybe a #3 starter. Now he's a middle reliever. Not sayng it wouldn't be nice to have him back when I watch some of the middle relievers pitch now, but Rauch was part of the Colon trade if I remember correctly. That was a steal for the Sox...a great trade for KW. Majewski has been a decent middle reliever but nothing special. He's been a journeyman who I believe has been with the Sox on 3 seperate times and traded a way at least once if not more. There's no doubt that as of right now, Young is the best player KW has given up in a trade at least in terms of talent, and I can only assume he's going to be a very good major leaguer based on what he's done in the minors. Bob QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 8, 2006 -> 11:28 PM) I don't agree with that. There are only 3, maybe 4, interesting position players in the system. Sweeney, Fields, & Cunningham... On the pitching side of things, there are a number of players who are still worth watching. Broadway, Haeger, Logan, Phillips, Russell, Harrell (does anyone know if he was injured in B'ham?), Perez, Rice, even Whisler. Plus there's the new blood McCulloch, Long, OMGrosso, Edwards. I think the post you responded to was talking about Schueler's moves. But, yes, there currently seems to be more legit pitching prospects in the Sox system now then position players. On the flip side, if you look at the Sox history of developing starting pitchers the last 15 years or so, it's been pathetic. There's Buehrle. McCarthy has a high ceiling but hasn't proven anything as a starter. Then after that you'd have to jump down to Baldwin and Sirotka. Middle relievers are a dime a dozen, and if you can trade young pitching prospects that don't seem to have a high ceiling for quality major leaguers, then you have to do it. No sense waiting around to see if a guy can become a good middle reliever or a sucky starter. Bob

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 10:28 PM) I personally believe our minor league system is now a bottom tier system. That is partially because of guys just not making it, injuries, poor drafts, and trades. I'm not high on any pitchers right now...Some guys like Russell, Harrell, Broadway, Wisler, Egbert, Perez are interesting, but are all question marks. As far as position players, we have essentially ONE good prospect up the middle (C, SS, 2, CF) in Chris Getz. We have a couple solid outfielders/corner fielders, but every organization has that. Anything below AA is a crap shoot in my view and there is no real reason to analyze those guys right now (although early returns on Ommogroso..spelling and McCulloch are encouraging) I hope this off-season Kenny goes in a different direction and deals off some of our vets and start to replinish our minor league quality. What's also worth mentioning is that of all the minor leaguers KW has traded, none have made it big or would even be considered good. YHoung has the best chance and it's early to tell with him. So give KW credit for getting a lot in return for not very good players, but on the flipside it makes one wonder waht they're doing wrong with their drafts. Bob

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 10:56 AM) Look, no matter what you say, there is no way in hell that the 2005 team wins the World Series without Ozzie Guillen. I don't care what kind of spin you want to put on this. >>> Back to the point. Ozzie Guillen's vision of rebuilding the White Sox was the reason the team was even put in a position to win the division last year. It was Ozzie Guillen who demanded that Kenny reconstruct the roster around what he wanted - with more speed at the top of the lineup. Sure, KW went along with it, and made the moves, but as I understand it, the impetus was from Ozzie. And even though Podsednik basically sucks now, he was the catalyst of last year's lineup and a true leadoff hitter is the reason why we were able to succeed with players like Carl Everett and a one-legged Frank Thomas DHing. It was that style of play that won. Not Carlos Lee and a bunch of right handed beefcakes taking batting practice. Love him or hate him now, Ozzie Guillen is the reason why we got Freddy Garcia to re-sign in Chicago. Without Freddy, we don't win the series last year. It was under Ozzie Guillen's managing that Garland was able to finally live up to his potential, something that Jerry Manuel was never able to have faith in. It was Ozzie Guillen who kept the team's motivation up. Whatever that means, you cannot deny that the team last year NEVER quit. There are several more reasons why Guillen was invaluable. Suddenly now, he's the worst manager to ever don a uniform and people are calling for his head. Yes, he has made some atrocious decisions this year. But to discount his impact last season is ludicrous. Absurdly ludicrous. He may not last even one more season in Chicago, but I will never, ever for a second believe anything else but that Ozzie Guillen was one of the most important reasons the White Sox ever won the World Series. Everything had to go right for us to pull that off. And that includes the manager being the manager. It honestly sickens me to read some of these posts. Agreed. Ozzie is the best manager this team has seen in a long, long time. No one is going to agree with all his moves but for those who are crying about this or that, think of they Jerry Manuel and Terry Bevinton days. Bob

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:30 PM) I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from...but while Schu may have been better in player development, KW is one of the best at managing who he keeps, who he trades, and who he trades for. It's the main reason the White Sox won a World Series last year. I agree with that. I just want this team to be a legit championship contender for as long as possible and to do that the Sox will need a productive farm system to be either brought up or traded away for talent. If there's only about 5 guys in demand from other teams (as someone earlier posted) and none are All Star caliber, it makes it that much more difficult to trade for stud players. Bob

QUOTE(IloveGload @ Sep 7, 2006 -> 01:23 PM) Anyone go onto the tigers page? The poll question is which team is not going to make it to the playoffs them us or the twins. No doubt we are leading in votes by a lot. Is it just because we won last year that we are constantly crapped on? I think everyone is rooting for us to fail this year except for us fans. I think it's the fact that the Sox have played like garbage the whole second half of the season. What are we, about 4-5 games under .500 since the break. Doesn't sound like a playoff team to me. On the flip side, the talent is there to turn it on. The question is when. I think we're more then overdue for a run based on the talent of this team. Bu it's not like the Sox just woke up and said 'Oh crap, we're in a pennant race and may not get in.' It's time to play with some sense of urgnecy like the Twins have done since June and most everyone had them written off for dead. Bob

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 09:10 PM) What did Schu's minor league system produce? KW's has produced Jim Thome, Javier Vazquez, Freddy Garcia, Mike MacDougal and others too. Indirectly, yes, but it has. It's also produced Brandon McCarthy, Brian Anderson, a good looking hitter in Sweeney, and you can make arguments for others too(perhaps Cotts, Jenks, and others he's picked up in trades and waiver claims) First, let me say that one of KW's strengths is picking up young minor leaguers that have been overlooked by other teams. As for what Scheuler has produced, here's some major league players that were drafted (or signed as free agents) by the Sox and made the majors: 1. Crede 2. Buehre 3. Lee 4. Ordonez 5. Cameron 6. Sirotka 7. Baldwin 8. Durham That's a few off the top of my head. Obviously there have been a lot of busts, but every GM has had their share of those. I think most of those guys were drafted in the mid 90's on, which should be about 6-7 drafts since Schu left in 2000. KW has had the same, but of course it takes time for players to develop. I realize that. Bob

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Sep 6, 2006 -> 02:09 PM) The Sox and Twins win the division/WC and Detroit stays home for the playoffs? I think it could happen pretty easily. Tigers are losing today 4-1 to Seattle and then travel to Minny for 4 games. If the Twins win tonight (likely against the Rays) they'll be sitting 3 games back. By next Monday we could have a new leader/co-leader in the standings. Assuming the Sox take care of business (I know, a big assumption), they could be sitting within 1-2 games of the division lead come next week. These last three weeks are going to be stressful for all three teams... It could happen if the Sox get their head out of their behinds. They now have 2 quality starts in a row. Hopefully they'll be able to build on that. Bob

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Sep 5, 2006 -> 01:59 PM) Well, every minor league affiliate has a losing record except Charlotte and that's because they are populated by a bunch of older non-prospects. And, their second half hasn't been good anyway. Also, we only have at most 5 prospects in this organization that other teams would be excited to get their hands on. And, none of them are sure-fire future stars. I'd say this is a weak system right now. The Sox are also not known for great player development or drafting like Minny, Detroit or Cleveland - whoops all of our competitors ! Maybe, if we could trade Garcia and Vazquez that will help us land a few more serious prospects. I didn't realize that things were that bad off. Granted they traded away 2 top pitchers for Thome and Yound for Vazquez. I'm sure that would make a difference. But even so, the Sox have generally been a disappointment in the pitching area while being good in everyday players. What are the Sox doing wrong that Minnesota or an Atlanta has done right? It can't be all draft position. I've read spend higher then average on scouting and player development so I don't think the system is neglected or ignored. Is it the scouting, which is already an inexact science or is it the coaching. One thing I did notice when the Sox played Minnesota was that tghe non-star .300 hitters (Tyner, Bartlett) tend to go with the pitch and try not to do to much. I never saw so many weak duck snorts and choppers then when Minny was in town. The seemed to go with the pitch and definitely weren't swinging for the fences. They had a good approach and the fact that they have speed allows them to beat out hits or break up DP's that slower guys can't do. O na different note, people rip on Schueler for his drafting and development, but how has KW done any better when it comes to the minor leagues? Obviously overall KW is a better GM then Schueler for the simple fact that he won the World Series, but in terms of only the farm system, I think KW is worse then Schu. Bob

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 2, 2006 -> 05:58 PM) That was fast.

I'm curious as to how people perceive the Sox farm system right now. Reading thse threads, I get so many different opinions. Some thing Heath Philips has no future and that Fields is Borchard in disguise while others think Fields can easily come up and be a good hitter. Do the Sox have a lot of minor leaguers with decent big league potential? Where are the strengths and weaknesses of the Sox farm system? Are there any impact players coming up? Is there hope for the future? I just want to see what some around here think. Bob EDIT: I do the I forgot the Sox in the title. I meant 'Sox' obviously, but expect to see a bunch of 'Ox' even if I have no knowledge of that team exisiting anywhere. I'm sure someone will find something in the Podunk Little League or something,

QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ Sep 2, 2006 -> 09:45 AM) Jose isn't pitching like he was. I also think he is hurting. If he's hurt put BMac in the starting rotation. Doesn't Ozzie get mad at players if they hide injuries? Wasn't that his whole thing with Urib and his benching earlier. I don't get it. If a hurt player can't help the team then then DL him. If he's covering up Ozzie should be pissed. I don't think JC is hurt, I think he lacks command right now. Bob

QUOTE(stretchstretch @ Sep 1, 2006 -> 10:18 PM) I generally was on KWs side of things at the beginning of the season, though Frank's contributions to White Sox baseball will always be remembered fondly. Now that he's going to the playoffs with team who has a solid shot to go the distance, and we may not, are people here happy for him? If the Sox don't make the playoffs or get eliminated, I'm rooting for the A's. If the sox can't win a seconf ring, you can bet I'd love to see Frank get a second ring. Bob

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 31, 2006 -> 07:19 PM) If we get pitching, no doubt in my mind. The question is: How do we get the pitching better. I can live with Javier pitching 5-6 innings and giving up 3 runs. Not ideal. Not even good, but he's keeping you in the game. Of course it would help of Riske and Cotts would get someone out once in awhile and save wear and tear on the pen. The pitcher that bothers me the most is Freddy. Whether he's hurt, tired, lacks motivation or whatever, I dread when he's pitching. He's not pitching 'good enough' to win. The offense is saving his behind right now. When is he going to dial it up? Bob

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Aug 31, 2006 -> 07:55 PM) You don't win as many 1 and 2 runs games as we did last year without some small ball. Point taken, though. I think we got a little too much credit for that last year. I agree. I wish the Sox had more everyday players who were faster and a threat to steal. I think that's invaluable. While I'd never ask PK or Thome to bunt (and I'm certainly not advocating getting rid of them) some of their speed could distract pitchers and especialy in PK's case eliminate a few DP's. All this contributes to small ball and get easily add a few runs per season. Bob

The 2005 White Sox scored 741 runs and hit 200 HR's. As of yesterday, the 2006 White Sox have hit 199 HR's and scored 743 runs. Too further the point, it's possible that the 2006 Sox could score 150 more runs the last year while seeing an increase of about 40 HR's. I wanted to see what people thought about all this when looking back on the 2006 team and all the talk of bad bunting, base running, etc. I've always said small ball with this team is a myth. Since the team doesn't have a comfortable lead, a lot of these things are being overanalyzed. I've even debated with friends about lack of late inning small ball then pointed out that a lot of the reasons the game was so close was due to the home rune earlier in the game. This stat does prove one thing: It's all about the pitching. Bob