shakes

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 12:59 PM) You are too focused on the past which Anderson has nothing to do with. Every team has busts and there's no doubt the Sox have had plenty in recent history but Anderson is his own person and his progression shows there's plenty of reasons for hope and that hope is not blind at all. Anderson is no guarantee by any means but given his past, the direction he's headed and the fact he's 22, I see no reason not to be optimistic. Just because you are not confident in the Sox staff does not mean Anderson will not develop. No doubt his plate discipline needs work but his defense has in fact improved while moving upwards through the system and as far as power goes, if you expect Anderson to hit for power then he will be a failure in your eyes no matter what he does. Anderson has never been projected to hit for power. Doubles, triples and stealing bases is more his offensive game which is fine from the SS position. I'm sorry, the past has a large bearing on Andersons development. These are the same decision makers and coaches that are trying to develop the skills he is missing. For the same reason I would feel comfortable if the Sox had a young power pitching lefty with unorthodox mechanics and command issues, that they could turn him into something, I feel just as strongly the current Sox structure is not equipped to develop the skills Anderson needs to reach his potential. It doesn't mean they can't do it, it just means it's unlikely. There is not a single example in the last ten years telling me differently, and Anderson is not the first talented prospect they have had and that we have heard positive development about. And go look at all of Anderson's scouting reports. They all mention his power potential. Despite trying to put words in my mouth, I will not measure his success based on his power. But if the power isn't there, than he needs to get on base and play defense well. Those are far from a given to the point where people are counting on him as a part of the future.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) It's not very reasonable to judge one ML player based on a teams previous success or failure with other players. Looking at that players past and how far that player has come since being drafted is what matters. Anderson has progressed in most facets of the game and will begin the '16 season playing AAA at only 22 years of age so there's plenty to hopeful about but that hope is not blind due to his progression. Anderson has shown that his game is improving all the while moving up through the system. Why is it not reasonable? Show me evidence in the other direction. I put the caveat out there that each player needs to be evaluated individually, but the White Sox development system hasn't produced a single long term position player, from the draft, under the KW/Bell/Hahn regime. Anderson would be the exception to the rule. And considering he shares the same strengths/weaknesses, albeit at different positions, than a player like Avi, and is flying through promotions and coaches at the normal crazy rate, I am not confident they can develop his defense, plate discipline, and power when they haven't ever shown before they are capable of doing it. Let's face it, Anderson needs to be a very special player to overcome all that he faces and be an everyday regular SS, let alone an impact star. It can happen, and I hope for nothing more, but again I will believe it when I see it.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 10:01 AM) your second part of your post, i agree and been a big advocate of against the speed of which they the sox rush the players thru. but in ref to the bold, the sox are really down, they need something positive coming from the minor system... in other words i would use the law of averages and say, lets hook our enthusiasm on Anderson. it doesn't hurt. But that's just blind hope that it will be different this time. History tells us differently, and there is pretty overwhelming evidence that suggests their position player development system doesn't work.

QUOTE (rneums33 @ Nov 20, 2015 -> 08:12 AM) Those are three guys out of how many that management has been unable to develop. Let's look at how many they haven't been able to develop...Beckham, Davidson, Flowers, the signing of the Adam's (Dunn and LaRoche). I do not think they can develop hitters or they are a poor judge in hitting talent. I believe they got lucky with guys like Anderson. I'm confused why people are counting Anderson as a positive already. Tell me where you have heard this profile before: Speedy, raw, multi sport athlete that needs to improve contact rates, pitch recognition, defense, and tap into power potential. Now, tell me when the Sox have ever finished developing that player? He is an exciting prospect no doubt, and I get each prospect needs to be evaluated individually, but it's one of these I'll believe it when I see it type situations. The Sox appear to be better at evaluating position players a little further in their careers when development is closer to complete. That's where Abreu, Eaton, Alexei types seem to work out. They just can't develop players from the start. Someone mentioned earlier about baseball IQ. I have to agree and I think part of that comes from the Sox penchant for picking and targeting athletes rather than baseball players. Kenny loves football player types that are raw with big tools. That also generally leads to less baseball acumen and the Sox cannot instill it into players. That could also be attributed to the ridiculous speed at which players tend to get promoted.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 5, 2015 -> 01:38 AM) Why do a lot of people think he's gonna get a restructured deal with the Sox? He's a decent shortstop. He's actually above average and has a little pop in his bat. He's gonna get 12-15 million a year with somebody, believe it or not. No. None of this is true.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 4, 2015 -> 03:23 PM) I'm genuinely shocked. Thought for sure the FO would make the wrong decision of picking up the option. Now please just let him walk all together unless he takes a 1 year $5M deal(which I doubt) I say forget the 1 year deal even. It is time for him to go. He is below replacement level, and his defense is declining rapidly every year. He's not going to get better with age. The Sox need a better plan than "I hope he has a big bounce back at 35". He had a great career here and was mostly under appreciated nationally, but the Sox have to get better at learning when to cut ties.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 2, 2015 -> 11:22 PM) Well, since the Nats aren't hiring Bud Black, I'd go after him after RV gets fired. That would be nice, but no chance. The Sox list will only consist of people with ties to the organization. And I really think people are overthinking this Alomar stuff. If they really wanted him, they could have just fired Robin and hired him. Another lame duck year of Robin to look forward to so Jerry can continue to be the most loyal guy on the planet.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 10:48 AM) When discussing possible Sale trades everyone seems to leave out something. Namely what does Sale want? I've never heard or seen anything indicating he wants out...yet. But keep in mind when the season ends in two weeks he'll have five and a half years of service in the big leagues...and still won't have ever pitched in a post season game. That has got to be bothering a guy as competitive as he is. Sooner or later (probably sooner) if the Sox continue to look like buffoons on a baseball diamond Sale (or his agent) are going to cross a line and say "I'm leaving when my deal is up so trade me for what you can and get me out of here." Mark To be blunt....who cares? What Sale wants isn't going to drive what the Sox should do, and if it does they have the wrong people in charge. Whether or not Sale wins in his career should be about #500 on the list of priorities for how the Sox approach their future. Honestly, it is probably time to consider trading him. They have so many holes that can't be filled by their farm that FA is the only way and I think the front office has proven, time and again, they are not good enough to do it through FA. People are saying trading Sale is the nuclear option. Nope, trade Sale and Q. That is the nuclear option and I really think they should consider it. They are that far away right now. Teams like LAD, Boston, Cubs, Rangers are all contending, have deep farms, and are looking for pitching. Take advantage of it. Developing pitching is the one thing they are good at, but I see no other way they are going to fill 5-6 holes in position players.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) We have no top 100 position player prospect ready to go for 2016. If they want to improve that team then, they'll do what they did last year. Which was all the more reason they needed to trade Shark. They are going to need to trade to find upgrades for 3b/SS/C/OF. Getting as many pieces as you can for the offseason was very important. They chose the worst option. Do nothing and cross your fingers all the teams in front of you, who have gotten stronger, fall apart. Best case scenario is this Toronto plan blows up in smoke. They fire AA, and Kenny goes to Toronto.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) If we weren't going to get a bat, we should have traded Samardzija. 100%. This just screams indecisiveness. Teams were getting good returns for starters. Wasted opportunity for a team that will miss the playoffs.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Apr 24, 2015 -> 12:55 PM) That's not my assumption, necessarily. I'm giving you my observation. I see nothing from this team in terms of fire or cohesion, and that does come from the top down. Do you see any evidence to the contrary? Are you seriously asking this question the day after a brawl, and our top two pitchers trying to fight the entire opposing team?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 24, 2015 -> 11:47 AM) Hitting Cain intentionally the first series of the seaon. This all goes back to last year and him getting after Cain and Ventura when he played for the A's. There's clearly more than meets the eye going on in terms of the backstory with those three...and the Samardzija also getting after Christian Colon from the dugout last night I don't understand why everyone just accepts Cain's version of the events. This is the same guy who loves to celebrate every hit like a game 7 walkoff and he wants to call people out for professionalism. That is not the last pitcher he is going to piss off. He clearly was yelling at Samardzija before it escalated. They are both at fault. And if him, Colon, and Ventura have that big of rabbit ears, you can expect a lot more teams chirping at them. Samardzija deserves to be suspended, but it absolutely can't be more than Ventura. He has escalated a fight the last three times he has started a game. And let's not forget he hit Abreu in this game before Sale hit anyone. The spin has been heavy out of KC today, but the league can't let them off light. If they punished Ventura appropriately last time, none of this likely happens.

QUOTE (asindc @ Feb 27, 2015 -> 10:59 AM) I think the emphasis on power numbers has caused a de-emphasis on the speed aspects of the game, and I'm not just referring to base stealing here. Even taking extra bases is sometimes discouraged with the idea that the team is better off with a slugger's chance of driving in the run(s). I can't speculate on how well current players would hold up trying more than 100 steal attempts in a season because no one currently even tries it. I think this is the biggest reason. Raines, Coleman, and Rickey Henderson were outliers even for their time. The astro turf helped in their day, as well. Henderson was the true freak as he was able to keep his SB numbers up his entire career. Raines and Coleman tapered off a bit after about 5 years each. I imagine it was just to hard physically to keep that many attempts up.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Feb 3, 2015 -> 12:22 AM) And you are the exact fan and demographic they are trying to change. The MLB's median fan age continues to rise and baseball seems to be doing very little to fix the trend. I'm not saying this guy is going to be a savior, but "keeping with tradition" is a more of a death knell than anything else. Something needs to change. Couldn't agree more. The Sox are struggling bringing in casual fans. I would imagine this will cater to kids and families. When I go to a game with my nieces and nephews what they talk about is the fireworks, Southpaw, dancing between innings, and t-shirt cannons. The NBA is awesome at that stuff and more is needed at the the park. Baseball is a very deliberate sport and it can be hard to keep casual fans attention, in this day and age, when they are use to constant stimulation from multiple sources. I won't miss AC/DC and the cheesy introductions. I go to watch the games, but I'm not who they need to attract to the park. They need more younger fans and more casual fans.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 9, 2015 -> 09:55 AM) This isn't really true though. Ted Phillips doesn't make football decisions. I haven't seen anything disputing this. In fact, it looks like the current Bears structure was very attractive to GM candidates. DeCosta being the only one to turn down an interview with the Bears, but he has turned down everyone. The Jets and Philly jobs were repeatedly turned down because of their structure. I think the George and Phillips structure problems myth needs to be put to bed, along with the Bears are cheap myth. It's pretty clear the GM has full control over personnel decisions, and this was a very sought after job. The Lovie/Angelo era saw them go to one Superbowl and another conference championship under this structure, so it wasn't a complete failure. The Emery era clearly was a failure, but he was given free reign to give out huge contracts, which helped get him and everyone else fired, and then the Bears picked up the tab to clean house. I have no idea if Pace will work out(rooting for him as I went to college with him), but if it doesn't it won't be because he wan't given the freedom to do what he wanted.

QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 14, 2014 -> 02:30 PM) I guess in my mind, cheating to make it to the big leagues is a much lesser offense than cheating to make many more millions. Its akin to the motivation for a crime being taken into account while determining what crime is being charged, or during sentencing. Then the sox go and reward the guy with millions who cheated to make millions. Is there no hypocrisy there? am i nuts? Nuts. No. Calling out hypocrisy but quantifying your own rules for cheating is...... hypocritical and makes your argument a bit ridiculous, and yeah whiny. Just not sure with your inconsistent stance on cheating how you could even follow amateur or professional sports.

QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 14, 2014 -> 01:52 PM) Those are different situations entirely. Please see the other thread about this topic. It just seems a strange line to draw. To each his own.

QUOTE (MAX @ Dec 14, 2014 -> 01:05 PM) I also have no faith that he did not cheat after that and I belive that his numbers that got him this contract might be inflated. I have no faith in this man's character at all. Does everyone not recall the deviousness he orchestrated with his agent on making a fake product webpage? Only when caught in that too, did he come clean. He is a false person, and I will not be put in a position of rooting for him. I am just trying to decide if it makes sense to root for 24 men on the team and root against 1. How is that going to be enjoyable for me? Thanks, Hahn. Then you shouldn't have been rooting for this team the last several years with Flowers and Quintana on the roster.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 12:18 PM) So tell me why Andrew Miller, with the run he's currently on, can't be/isn't one of those guys? If you can convince me he isn't using something other than "bullpens are unreliable" I'll sour on going after him, but for the last 3 years he's been very reliable. Reliable is one way to put it. You don't have to go back far to call it a bit lucky. In 2013 he had a whip of 1.4 and a BB/9 of 5! I'm not paying a non closing reliever $8mm per, only a year removed from those scary numbers. He has always greatly struggled with control. 2014 is the outlier. He is a luxury for a team putting together the final pieces. Use that money to fill a hole at an every day position, or at least in the rotation.

The Sox are starting to get the Cubs treatment in the media. Everyone knows they have money to spend, so agents are leaking interest everywhere. Through the media, the Sox have already been linked to Martinez/Sherzer/Panda/Miller. No way this is coming from the front office, unless they are looking to dethrone Theo of his participation trophy.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 05:25 PM) And the thing is, Scherzer is a terrible investment at that price too, but it is better than Samardzija. Frankly, the Sox don't need to be looking to overpay for a starting pitcher right now. 56 pitchers put up an fWAR of 2 and 61 pitchers put up a bWAR of 2 last year, meaning there are plenty of good pitchers around the league. The Sox should attempt to acquire one of those guys rather than splurging and spending all this money they've freed up on a great starting pitcher when they already have 2 of those, another top 10 pitching prospect in the game at AAA plus several others with a mixed bag of ceilings between the A+ and AAA levels. If they are going to spend a signficant amount of money on one player, it should be for an offensive player. The three names that make the most sense to me to fill a slot in the rotation are (in my preferred order) Brandon McCarthy, Jason Hammel, and Justin Masterson. There are a few others who would not be bad options, but those are the ones I think I'd prefer. Those three have huge question marks and will still cost a decent amount. I'm just in the camp if the Sox are going to go after pitching, go big. Lock the rotation up for the next several years with something potentially very special. Slide some of our big young arms into the bullpen, find a bat or two, and make a run at this thing.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 04:26 PM) Even so, when has a team ever said "I'm really glad I gave that guy a long term contract valued at $17-20 mill per year"? At 4 years, I'd love Samardzija. At 6 years, it's not a good gamble. Sure, many large pitching contracts have been painful, but I think Samardzija is a bit unique. And 4 years just won't get it done. If you want to compete in the front line pitching space, you have to take on risk. I think there is a very real chance he is healthy and good for the next 4-5 years. If that's the case you are looking at a rotation that could potentially be what Detroit has had the last 5 years, with Abreu's prime anchoring the lineup.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 04:12 PM) 777.2 MLB innings plus 485.1 MiLB innings equals 1263 career professional innings. Chris Sale has 685 innings in his professional career. Samardzija's arm is not as young as people think either. You are not going to find many pitchers with less mileage about to hit free agency, with his health track record. With the contracts Sale and Q have, you can afford to take a risk on a pitcher for a larger contract, and I like his value better than the free agent options.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 7, 2014 -> 02:56 PM) I'd have no problem giving Jeff Samardzija $17.5 mill per year over 5 years. I think the problem is that he's going to get closer to $20 mill per year and he's going to ask for 6 years. I would be good with even going to $20 mil with him, but I'm not sure it would even take that. People are concerned that he is turning 30, but he does not have the typical usage pitchers have his age. He only has 100 more MLB innings than Sale, less than half of Jon Lester's innings total, and wasn't abused in college like many SP due to being a two sport athlete. He has a very young arm and has shown no hint of injury. If an extension is in play I would absolutely consider dealing Anderson for him.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 4, 2014 -> 10:46 AM) Paul Molitor's wife is named Destini. Yeah, but what is her stripper name?