shakes

I do find it hilarious. The whole MLB offseason has turned into this quest for social media status. Take a look at this site, everyone and their brother has a source this offseason. It seems the plan is to break a story, gain followers and start blogging like you now have more baseball knowledge because you were told something that someone else knew. I guess it's not that new, but it has grown rampantly over the last couple of years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 11:41 AM) The fact is prospect rankings are done by people who aren't paid by MLB teams. So their relevance, and judging whether a trade was good or not based off that, doesn't matter. I'll never forget hearing the story how Dave Wilder BS'd his way into having his guys ranked higher. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what Jonathan Mayo or Keith Law or any of these guys think, it's what the White Sox think. They made these trades thinking they are trading for the correct pieces. Who knows, maybe to them, Rutherford is a top 10 guy. maybe to the Yankees he's a top 60. If they are wrong, the "well Keith Law really liked it" doesn't make it excusable. If they are right, it's all on them as well, not it was a no brainer. They can only trade these guys once. Hopefully the main pieces turn out as well as they hope. Great point. This is the way as fans we are forced to learn about prospects, but these lists are a ton of group think in the blogging industry and individual player analysis are usually only as good as the scout that was willing to give that player an opinion, and what that scouts motives happen to be. The closer to the top you get the better these lists are. They are not great at seeing big rises ahead of time. Team evaluations are much different, and they are much better at seeing projection. It's clear the Sox really liked Rutherford, and that is important. Doesn't make them right or wrong, but they are confident about him. And he is a very clean prospect. Hahn obviously values top end talent, and others have pointed out, he is willing to concede a bit on secondary pieces to get better talent up front. I personally love this philosophy.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:46 AM) Look, I'm not going to make the same arguements with the 5 or so guys that want to suddenly value Kahle as nothing because he's no longer on our team. Try reading. Read Hahn's quotes. Read the analytics. Watch a game. This is confusing. What did you expect to get for him?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:38 AM) He's not a penny stock. Dude has incredible stuff. He was always well-thought of as a guy who, if he could put it together, he could be dominant. I'm not sure I agree he was ever thought of that highly. This is the very definition of selling high. This is how you rebuild smartly.

Hahn has been getting good players in return in his deals, so I have been waiting for the deal where the unrealistic returns finally caught up, and I guess we have found it. I am floored that there are people who don't like this. This was a very creative deal and I can't believe we got a prospect with as much potential as Rutherford. I guess this is what happens when names like Robles and Gleyber start getting thrown around with no real basis in reality.

QUOTE (oneofthemikes @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 01:32 PM) He's not. They are absolutely not trading a consensus top 10 prospect for relievers, regardless of how many you throw at them. We, better than anyone, should realize what it takes to get a top 10 OF. We just did it. It took 3+ years of a cost controlled All Star SP. Harper is gone in a couple years and they know that they will need a replacement. Refocus on Soto and/or Kieboom. They are a hell of a lot more realistic than Robles. It happened just last year. The problem is if Robles is getting traded for a reliever it's not for Robertson. They would probably start targeting Osuna or Iglesias if a prospect like Robles is on the table. Guys that are cost controlled and good. Even Britton before Robertson if you are going there, although not sure he would be available to the Nats.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2017 -> 10:39 AM) He is pretty much blowing into his Nintendo cartridges right now. That's great. Whether or not i'm given permission, I'm stealing this.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 06:40 AM) You want Brinson. I want Brinson. Not gonna happen. I feel like this is said about every prospect someone brings up. Guys like Brinson should not be off the table in discussions about Q.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 12:07 PM) I don't think Astros believe Q is a good fit for their park You might be right, but their interest in Gray seems odd to me. One less year of control and some recent injury concerns. He's a lot like what they have in their rotation. Good when healthy, but a lot of question marks. I've always thought their interest was overstated and they are interested at a lesser cost, but then you are as hot as they are the only thing that could stop you is running out of arms come playoff time and they might just change their outlook.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 11, 2017 -> 11:44 AM) Exactly. When Hahn returns phone calls and said that Quintana is being traded soon and to get your final offers in is when we see the "heavy names". Teams will not show their cards until the pressure is on. Exactly like you said, Moncada was not on the table until Hahn called Dombrowski and informed him about the Nationals Robles + Giolito/Lopez centric deal. Boston then upped the offer to include Moncada and got a deal done. Hahn is definitely a good negotiator. I trust he is getting good value on trades. It can be hard to be as patient as he is, and when you get a group of teams interested one the GM's will be less patient and give in. If Q goes first, the market will get real interesting. Not sure the effect it will have on Gray's value, but if it is a big enough return I would bet a couple of new names will hit the market that otherwise wouldn't have. What I have found telling is that Houston seems to be kicking the tires on some pitchers that don't seem to be available. That tells me that the Sox and A's have a high price tag and they figure if they are willing to meet that package they might as well see what else they could get for it.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jul 7, 2017 -> 11:36 AM) This is clearly a propaganda fluff piece by Merkin the Merlin to give Sox fans false hopes of trading Melky. Oh, and this rebuild is NOT a rebuild. That is all... Good to see Melky has some value. Should be interesting to see what teams show interest as we get closer to the deadline. I think the article was legit written by a high school kid. I don't think he has the inside track on Melky's value.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 07:18 AM) This is where people have zero idea of history. Your mention of the "refusal to assimilate" couldn't be more normal in terms of history. Heck go all of the way back to colonial times. Religious groups struck out on their own. Ever heard of the Pligrims? How about the Quakers? The Amish? The Mormons too. Ethnic groups were no different. Indians, Africans, Irish, Chinese, Japanese, Jews, Germans, over time were some of the more prominent targets. Typically these groups came here in search of something new, and met with resistance because they didn't speak English and their customs offended the people who were already assimilated. The first generations usually didn't try to blend. They stayed in their ethnic neighborhoods, spoke the old language, kept the old customs, and never really became "American's" Many even turned to crime to make their way as traditional ways were closed to these groups. Whether it was the "Irish Need Not Apply" or the redlining of entire cities to keep the undesirables in their own places such as Chinatown and Little Italy, it has been done over our whole history. But every, single, time an amazing thing happened. The second generation started to leave that behind. They spoke English outside of the house, and spoke the native tongue in it. They picked up American customs, and turned to education as their way out of the neighborhoods. By the third generations it might only be a last name that would sell out an ethnic background. By the 4th and 5th generations, the ethnic identities faded to the point they were really of the old world anymore, they were Americans first, and something else later. The incredible part of that is that it was all voluntary. It wasn't like Soviet Russia where assimilation was forced, or Nazi Germany where the undesirables were just disposed of. People became Americans because they wanted to be Americans. The greatness of America has always been that people, no matter where they came from, always turned into Americans in a matter of a couple of generations. Pretty much unless we put the boot of discrimination on their necks, the transition has been seamless. With the banning of Muslims of certain countries coming to the United States, nothing has really changed. These elements have always held power in the United States, and they have always hid under the veil of trying to save us from the latest group we should be scared of. At times, they got enough power to make lives miserable for their targets. We banned the Chinese from immigrating at times. We rounded up the Japanese and put them into interment camps. We tried to send the Africans back to Africa. Despite all of this, these groups have still turned into Americans over time. I am here today to tell you that using history as my guide, Muslims won't be any different. Give America a couple of generations with these immigrants, and while you might have a few bad apples, they will be fat and lazy Americans in two generations. To me that is the ultimate victory. Our culture and society is so incredible that it wins out, and it wins out voluntarily. If we ever get to the point where this history stops, THAT is when we quit being great. You want proof? My hometown is FULL of Syrian refugees and immigrants that haven't blown up any buildings. They haven't used a single suicide vest. Guess what, they have been coming here for over a century just for the opportunity to work. So while some want to live in fear of the latest boogeyman group, history tells me that fear is wasted. Quit being scared of immigrants. Don't live your life in fear. The ultimate in living scared is trying to hide from other cultures. You want to make American great? Learn from your history instead of being scared and wrong. Thank you for writing this. I started to respond, but you nailed it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 04:27 PM) Its strange. I dont think Trump is anti semitic, his daughter is a Jew, his son in law is a Jew, his grandchildren are Jews. That being said, he seems to be surrounded by people who may be. I think a lot of the concern is that Trump just doesnt understand the people he aligned with to become President. Before running for office he wasn't against abortion, even supported right to choose charities and events, and showed support for gay rights. I truly think he doesn't care strongly about these issues, so he just listens to his advisers and adopts their stances, which should scare everyone.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 11:39 AM) Something else that's not getting a lot of attention thanks to the Muslim Ban stuff is that Trump filed for candidacy in the 2020 election the day he was inaugurated. That's highly unusual, and it brings up all sorts of questions about fundraising/bribing and potentially how non-profits are allowed to go after him as President vs. as a "candidate" This should not be overlooked. He can now, and is likely already, raising money from PACs essentially for propaganda. As a candidate he is allowed to do that and there really aren't guidelines for what the message can be. So, ads can air pushing his policies or spreading information in areas he deems important to upcoming elections. He can now do this for his entire time in office. He filed 5 hours after his inauguration.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) This rebuild has hit cult-like proportions, and it has just begun. And you say you aren't complaining, and accuse me of spinning. One line answers with no solutions is just complaining. Either way, you and I are adding nothing to this discussion so I am moving on. Good day sir, enjoy the new year!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:31 AM) Nice twist there. I wasn't complaining. I was addressing the idea that they would be competitive in 2018. They won't. That is the reality here. Ok. So in 2018 would you rather try and be the 2014 Cubs team or see a repeat of the 2016 Sox team? Either way, you have likely the same chance at competing for the central title.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) And the next few years will be loaded with players just like this. Cool. But so where the years when they were trying to win. I noticed you didn't address the fact you are complaining the Sox may win 70-75 in 2018 when in fact that is all they have been doing for the better part of a decade. I think they would win 70-75 the next 2-3 years if they were going for it. You know how I know that? Because that is the actual reality of the last four years.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:23 AM) Blake Tekotte. Forgot about him. By the way, all teams have filler. I'm aware of that, but many of those names started the season with a bigger role than they should've or they were plan B when everything didn't go perfectly, hence why the Sox were averaging 72 wins while TRYING to win.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 11:23 AM) Beckham was such a failure you included him twice I couldn't help myself.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:24 AM) We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018. And the Sox have averaged 72 wins the last four years. Honestly, what is your point besides whining? If this rebuild would've started three years ago like it should have they could already be in that window of contention. Instead we got to try and count on players like Matt Latos, Jimmy Rollins, JB Shuck, Jacob Turner, Dioner Navarro, Matt Albers, Kyle Drabek, Gordon Beckham, Hector Noesi, Adam Laroche, John Danks, Jordan Danks, Scott Carroll, Gordon Beckham, Ronald Belisario, Andre Rienzo, Dylan Axelrod, Blake Tekotte's of the world to try and win. That was a fun time as a fan.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 08:39 AM) You think the Nationals are better at developing pitchers than the White Sox? I believe he meant the Pirates, who are very good at developing pitchers. Although, I will say the pirates seem to be better at scouting and developing major league pitching talent, and Glasnow only threw 23 major league innings.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 05:59 PM) Retards. Moncado and kopech were untouchables

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 05:55 PM) Yanks did show interest in Quintana (@jonmorosi on it) but don't want to part w/frazier or Torres so likely a non-starter https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/811720851435438080 So, the dance begins.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:28 PM) He was overshadowed by Sale playing on a mediocre team. He was the Ben Zobrist of pitching. Guys get lost in the shuffle. Even here were people know more than the average, when there was talk about Zobrist, some thought he would make a good reserve. The guy put up 8.6, 3.8, 6.3 ,5.8, 5.0, 5.5 WAR seasons in a 6 year stretch. He was virtually unknown to be one of the best players in the game. When you thought of best players, he wouldn't come to mind, just like anyone who doesn't follow the White Sox doesn't really think of Jose Quintana when they think about the better pitchers in the game. I do agree it's about exposure, but I think it has more to do with lack of postseason exposure. If you look at Q's career against Lester or Cole Hamels , he was as good or better at this stage in their careers. His k/9 is a bit lower, but some of that has to do with pitching philosophy, but their repertoires and average velocity are all very similar. Q is not a soft tosser by any means, he just hasn't shown off on the big stage yet. In the end I think Hahn values him properly and that's all that matters. Not what Astros bloggers and Buster Olney think.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 08:58 AM) If the Astros really work by the numbers as some have suggested, this article may help explain why they aren't that interested in Quintana: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/do-the-astr...-jose-quintana/ Man is Cameron phoning it in these days. Where to even start with how lazy that argument is? You choose wOBA as a single stat to make your argument? So, let's just ignore how much better Q has been the last two years, the defense behind him, the park he pitched in, the framing differences, the 70 extra innings he threw, the two years younger he is, the contract affordability, and most of all there is no argument that anything should be framed as Q vs. McHugh. It's what does Q do to their rotation, and team, as a whole?