shakes

QUOTE (Deadpool @ May 12, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) But he doesn't really have to do that. I mean yeah, it spares us a silly story that doesn't have anything to do with Frazier, but Hawk's job isn't to go interfere with what is happening in the clubhouse. Most of the criticism on this thread is justified (and coming from White Sox fans, btw). A number of us feel like Hawks was a special announcer and he's a great personality, but he's just past his prime and the whole act is pretty worn out. I'm completely on board with this camp. I thought what he did yesterday just proves how big of a sideshow he has become. His act grew tiresome almost a decade ago and to me has been intolerable for the past 5 years. I'm so happy Jason is on board and am happy to at least listen to the volume during home games.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) I didn't realize making this thread constituted making fun of the fans...is that what it really is? There's also a difference for Pirates' fans because they know they have two better opportunities to see the Cubs later in the season since they are divisional rivals. At any rate, the Orioles' attendance is also way down and they actually spent quite a bit of money in the offseason, have been to the playoffs much more recently, and got off to a similar start record-wiseto the White Sox. Like it or not, with the media focusing so much on the Cubs and their revenue machine now, it's going to be even more of a topic of comparison because it's the one profound and obvious difference between the two organizations at the current time...and a hot topic on social media as well and presumably sports talk radio in Chicago. The fact is the Sox fanbase is similar to most fanbases. They win attendance goes up, they have long periods of losing, you need to earn the fans back. It's cold, less people go. Secondary ticket markets eat into walkup sales. The outlier is the Cubs, not the Sox. But again this has been the same story for a long time. Anybody expecting the Sox fanbase to act differently, all of a sudden, is just creating a strawman that seems to live in perpetuity on this site for a handful of posters.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2016 -> 07:55 AM) Ummm...let's just say that if you're playing well enough that ESPN or FOX or whoever makes you the national game of the week, you're doing something well. Team doing well, good buzz...positive vibes, more people want to go out and attend the game, at least that's how it works in most sports. The point is that it used to be a "cool" thing or an honor to be selected to be on ESPN, that meant your team was playing great and worthy of fans' attention...not just locally/regionally, but nationally. Team shaming? What the heck are you talking about? Because I don't think Rick Hahn walks on water and can raise Jon Snow from the dead? One thing's for sure. Dick Allen will keep fighting the "good fight" to complain about complaining. Really, you should get yourself a job with Donald Trump's campaign, where everyone would be buying what you were selling. Last time I checked, the White Sox were 1-1 the last couple of nights. I guess the sky is falling because I posted in a game thread...OMG! ?????? You know every team has national games, right? You know these games were scheduled well in advance? I know you know this stuff, so this is one of the strangest arguments I've seen. And why would fans attending the game care what network the game is on? I think the above argument just proves the attendance debate is officially exhausted, because this has just jumped from silly to nonsensical. The Pirates had 18,000 at their game against the Cubs on Monday, and I assure you there wasn't nearly that many in the park. A divisional rival with a traveling fanbase, and a team who is consistently making the playoffs. Maybe, you can find a message board and go make fun of their fans.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 4, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) Probably not but there are ways around it. Do you or anyone else have a good VPN for use? Asking for a friend.....

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 24, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) The crazy thing is Danks could pitch for years more if he wants. As a lefty who throws close to 200 IP a year, and puts up 5th starter type numbers, that has some solid value in today's MLB. Look at the contract JA Happ got this off season. While he wont make what he does not, there is no reason to think with another year like he has been putting up, John Danks will have a job pretty much as long as he wants it. He has Pittsburgh written all over him next year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) Lots of smoke from various people yesterday there were numerous complainers, and this came from non-Score personalities. I don't doubt there were complainers, in fact I think it's likely. The only place I've caught wind of the complainers being the vocal opponents of this in public, was originated several times on the score. I could be wrong, was that report coming from anywhere else?

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) oh wow Julie DiCaroVerified account ‏@JulieDiCaro @MJ_Baumann There are people in media who believe the guys complaining the loudest may have been the ones who complained. One of the Score's favorite moves is throwing out nonsense rumors nobody can verify. Bernstein and Dicaro are really good at it, and I believe in a lot of cases they 100% make this stuff up to get ratings.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) I'm confident he's not the one they're referring to I don't think he is the one either, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was Eaton. There was buzz about him being trouble in the locker room in Arizona. I will say Chris Sale was definitely lied to by someone, and it will be interesting to see how he reacts if a players name is revealed that complained.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) I don't think "this" was mishandled. More like Robin has no control of his clubhouse. Reason #45465332 he should not be the manager of this team. For sure. There are disagreements in locker rooms every year. They don't get out like this. Get rid of Kenny and Robin and lay down some rules and build a culture. This is a free for all. I can't remember anything this bad since the beer and chicken stuff with the Red Sox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 11:04 AM) Seems like a good guess. And you have railed on people for speculation. You are like a cartoon character, right now.

Well, this has officially become a problem. The leadership from all sides is failing. Things like this just cannot be aired in public, and that goes for the players too. This is not a good look for Sale. The only good thing that could come out of this, is maybe this will finally be the end for Kenny.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:42 AM) http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/laroche...te-sox-ventura/ Wouldn't the fact the kid had his own locker and uniform be an indication as well? LaRoche had a handshake agreement with manager Robin Ventura and general manager Rick Hahn that Drake, who had a locker and uniform, could be part of the clubhouse life. Williams said it was a bit much, more than he expected, and asked LaRoche a week or so ago to “dial it back.” “It was not in his contract,” Williams said. And even with Kenny Williams request they are 100% honoring that agreement. They never told him he could no longer be part of the clubhouse. If this link is your argument, you don't have a leg to stand on.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) The link is in this thread. There are 1700 posts in the thread. And not one of them shows me a source that says his son was to have 100% access, and it was an unflinching agreement, regardless of an ever changing environment. The only evidence I have seen is it being confirmed that this is not a stipulation in his written contract, because it is an absurd request, and if it was that important to him, I'm talking retire from one of the most lucrative and sought after jobs in the world important, it should have been in his contract.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:28 AM) You say this but more and more people are reporting it. The Sun Times beat writer is the latest. Link them

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) Maybe it is ridiculous. But my stance is it doesn't matter. If Hahn and Robing gave their word it was good before he signed, whether it was in the contract or not, the White Sox should be held to their word. That's it . And an article linked from last season about him did state he doesn't have unlimited access that many are assuming. There are certain times he can't be around. Again, your whole argument revolves around a hypothetical agreement, you nor anyone else can confirm, that would have given LaRoche a privilege nobody in the history of the sport has ever gotten, and seemingly everyone agrees nobody should have.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:26 AM) This whole scene is just further proof the Sox are a bad organization now, and have been for a long time. There's a lack of leadership, expectations, and communication. It starts at the very top. This is hard to argue with. And it starts at the top with JR. Just too many similarities with the Bulls. Just replace Paxon with Williams and the similarities are way too much to ignore. At times, it can be really hard to like this team.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:25 AM) We can go through this all day again, but a deal is a deal. Ask JR with Horace Grant. Horace made a verbal deal with him and "things changed". JR questioned his character. A deal is a deal, even if it's a bad deal. If Hahn and Robin gave their word, KW needs to honor that, not succumb to the wishes of some guy here on a minor league contract. And once again, you are making the enormous leap that you have all of the intimate details of that deal. Do you know for a fact the deal included him being able to have his son there 100% of the time, regardless of how the other members of the team felt? If you do, I will drop this argument and move on for good.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) One thing I can tell you is I am not naïve. You are assuming every pro LaRoche tweet, story, etc. is planted by him. You may be the naïve one. The basis of it is planted by him. That's how his side of the story is continually getting out. If he just wanted to retire, he could have walked away and said he wanted to spend more time with his family, and left it at that. Everyone would've applauded him and we could've gotten back to talking about normal stuff around here......like what age is appropriate for boys to start seeing grown strangers naked.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) Just because he owns the company doesn't mean it is him tweeting. I would bet everything I own it isn't him tweeting. You can't possibly be this naive. His family, friends, agents, and media contacts have been sharing intimate details from his side of the story non-stop. The story started this way. If he wanted it quiet you don't think he would have asked all of these people to keep it that way? They can't stop talking about it.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) Wasn't Toronto interested in him a year or so ago? That said, I agree that he has some negatives. The Sox's farm system fell apart under his tenure as GM. And there was the corrupt scout director (or whatever his title was) in Latin America. Not sure, but when it came time to hire someone Toronto passed on him. Then there was a report that Seattle was interested and it turns out they showed no interest and hired someone else. I think those stories of interest came from Kenny.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) I think it's more likely that Kenny takes a President of Baseball Operations position somewhere else. He's been with the organization for something like 20 years now. And while I think that he handled the LaRoche mess relatively well (given the circumstances), it's time for him to move on. If that job existed for him, he would have taken it by now. I don't think his reputation is good enough for him to get one of those jobs. He hasn't shown he is very adept at changing with the game over the past 5+ years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) If he truly believes that his family is that much more important than his job, no I won't call him selfish. I'd be more likely to call him selfish if he sold out his beliefs for a paycheck. I do think it's selfish because he created this situation by needing special treatment, and putting anyone who had a problem with it in a very awkward spot. And I really wouldn't have cared one bit, except it is very obvious he wanted the Sox to look like bad guys in this. It's a big red flag to me, when people get butt hurt over these types of situations because it puts in question their alternative life choices. It just makes me think him bringing his kid along everywhere is partly narcissism disguised as altruism.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) They did tell KW to talk to him about dialing back, and he refused to listen so KW brought it up again and he quit. KW did nothing bad here, he's just being the bad guy to keep others out of the spotlight. The story is so dumb. The more details that start to trickle in, the more LaRoche just sounds like a selfish asshole. He is solely responsible for creating a very awkward situation. I am never one to stick up for Kenny, but man this was an absolute no win situation. And this is just not dying out.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) I think if you asked JR, KW, and RH what should come first for a White Sox player, his team or family, they would all say family. Apparently he doesn't need the money. If he would rather be with his family, his performance would most likely show. So really what he did is justified. Nobody ripped Michael Jordan for quitting on his team. Guys leave all the time for various reasons. Then he truly should've shut his mouth, and not expose his son as the scapegoat(instead protect him), and start hash tagging #FamilyFirst and have his family and agent cry to every media outlet that will listen. If Jordan did that, I would say the same thing about Jordan.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 12:56 PM) Fits everything we've heard. #TeamLast I like it. I think Nightengale is the only one I've seen mention he quit on his teammates. Normally, people hate nothing more than quitting on your teammates, but nothing surprises me anymore when you cloak it some crap hashtag like #FamliyFirst, you will get a particular group rushing to your defense. #TeamLast