BaseballNick

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 03:44 PM) based on whats on there you think beckham should be on there? Beckham is a "just missed" guy added to the bottom of the list. You can argue he should have made it, but I have no problem with the players listed above him.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 01:22 AM) There is a philosophy that fans (and sometimes organizations) make too much of the leadoff hitter. And that people who use the "he gets the most ABs on the team" argument are overstating the importance of that position. Statistically speaking, some numbers suggest that the extra plate appearances by the leadoff hitter are worth very little over the course of the season. It just doesn't make much sense to put too much stock in one spot in the lineup like some people seem to be doing when they discuss Pierre. Look, he's far from the ideal and he doesn't excite me, but I think he can contribute enough to help the lineup overall. I'd really like to see those numbers. If there was one position in the lineup that you'd put the most stock into, naturally, wouldn't it be the one that gets to the plate more than any other player throughout the course of the season, therefore having more chances than any other player to make a difference in his team's outcome? That said, I like the the Pierre acquisition. I think he can still contribute at a league-average level for a leadoff hitter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) More likely Konerko. You think it's more likely to trade a first baseman with a bad contract and a no trade clause than it is Jenks? I understand there are other closers on the market, but aren't most of the ones worth signing Type A FAs?

QUOTE (SouthsideDon48 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 02:24 PM) Would it be logical to speculate that it could be someone like Adam Dunn? hmmmmm :-? The Sox would probably have to move Jenks first because it's not very likely that the Nats are going to eat any of that money.

QUOTE (b-Rye @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 02:01 PM) the only way i ever see the sox getting agon is with alexei, hudson, flowers, morel being shipped out; but i don't even see why SD would trade him while he's so cheap the next two years. They're rebuilding. Dealing a cheap star like Gonzo is a great way to get a boatload of young talent.

Love it!

I think he has a bad back. I heard Bavasi say something like he's a great guy, but bad luck with the injury and that's why he won't be back in Seattle.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 11:31 AM) No it doesn't. You are making the bullpen weaker and potentially weaker than it was before, and Putz would end up making around $6.5 mill if he were healthy all season as a closer as opposed to right around $3-4 mill by being a setup man all year long. Sure, you save $1.5 mill plus the $8 that Jenks was owed, but unless Jenks is traded for peanuts (which would be the case right now with Valverde, Rodney, Gonzalez, and Gregg on the market as guys who were closers at some point last year) and Mike Gonzalez was signed for a similar price to come in so that one of he or Thornton could close to try and help replace some of the lost help, and the relief pitching from the right side still hurts...it just doesn't make sense. Trading Jenks right now is something that would occur in a video game. It just doesn't make enough sense for the Sox to even consider dealing Jenks right now. If Putz shows he's healthy and performing, Jenks shows he's healthy enough to be dealt, and someone stands out from the crowd and puts themselves in the middle relief or setup discussion (and that's excluding Pena, who is already going to be counted on heavily to perform out of the bullpen), then it's a possibility. It's really not possible before the season starting. If the Sox had money, I'd be in favor of keeping Jenks. Since payroll is said to be maxed out and with holes at a corner OF spot and at DH, the money is going to have to come from somewhere. If they can afford to keep Bobby and sign a leadoff hitter as well as a DH, I'd be in favor of that. Who wouldn't want the stongest bullpen possible? I just don't think it's likely given the state of the team right now. I also don't think it's a coincidence that Putz has a games finished incentive in his contract.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 11:02 AM) Kenny would be insane to move Jenks right now and rely on a guy that's been injured and ineffective for the past two seasons. That said, if Putz bounces back, I could definitely see Jenks dangled at the deadline. It's very likely that the reason he's been ineffective is health related. If he's healthy, which the White Sox and their medical staff are saying is the case, then moving Jenks to free up cash to spend elsewhere actually makes a lot of sense.

QUOTE (SockMe @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 01:43 PM) even when healthy is Wolf a $29,000,000 man? He was pretty good last season and the Brewers need a dependable arm in their rotation because Manny Parra is not ready to step up. Wolf actually has a lot of value to them, and that's why they can justify the contract. He's a decent #2 starter in the NL, and that's where he'll be in Milwaukee (behind Gallardo). Fangraphs had him worth $13.6mil last season and projects his 2010 to be worth $13mil. Maybe the Brewers got a slight bargain? I doubt it, though. I think he'll hover around .500 with a 4.00 ERA just as he has his whole career.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) Gotta be somethin' shady going on. This just doesn't make any sense. It makes sense if Daniel Hudson is the long reliever.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 05:40 PM) That's because he made it personal, just like the D-bag who he is trying to replicate. Be the better man and let it go. If people have something personal to take up with Joe, then I think that needs to be done somewhere other than SoxTalk. There are about 30 pages in the Adrian Gonzalez thread and about four more in this thread about what people think of Joe. If people think Joe Cowley, a beat reporter, did something that nearly prevented the White Sox from signing Putz, then they're giving him far too much credit.

QUOTE (Big Daddy Kool @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:31 PM) I don't get it, Cowley gets bashed around here for "not doing his job", but he does "his job" and gets bashed for doing that. You can't have it both ways. Agreed. Someone mentioned he was "showing off" to the press. Give me a break. There was news, and he reported on that news.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 02:20 PM) And almost ruined the deal since it went public. It probably could have gotten done sooner. He was doing his job. How does Cowley reporting that the two sides were talking almost ruin the deal?

Buster Olney reports the White Sox are indeed shopping Jenks.

I always like seeing where fangraphs rates players' performances. They value Jenks' 2009 at $1.8mil, and Thornton's at $11.3mil. Based on what I saw last season, I can't argue with that one bit.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Nov 29, 2009 -> 03:26 PM) By the way, Hudson is not going to be a reliever. That's a shame. Hudson could be a very effective option logging some important innings for the Sox next year. Clearly, his future is as a starter, but with no room in the rotation right now, and the Sox looking to be contenders, I think it makes all of the sense in the world to have your 12 best pitchers on the 25 man roster.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Nov 23, 2009 -> 12:05 PM) I like the thought of bringing in OV for late game defense...but who does he go in for? OV to 2b and Becks to 3b? I would think he'll replace Teahen.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Nov 22, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) Who in their right mind wouldn't trade Hudson for Jennings? Project Prospect has Hudson ranked as the #3 pitching prospect in the game behind Strasburg and Matusz. They have Desmond Jennings ranked as the #7 position prospect in baseball. They make it seem like it would be a fair one-for-one trade.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 21, 2009 -> 09:02 AM) so what you are saying is "it aint happenin" Matsui is probably going to want more than a 1 year deal There's speculation Matsui would play in Japan if he doesn't get a multi-year offer to his liking out here. That makes sense because he's accomplished a lot out here and made a ton of money doing so.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 20, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) And I don't think we're trading Nix, because I don't think he gets you anything in trade anyway. I think he stays with the team, CJ isn't ready yet. Bench of Nix (who can play some corner OF as well as 2B, 3B), Vizquel (all skill IF), Kotsay (all OF, 1B), and the backup C. Gives you pretty good coverage all around. Nix, Vizquel, Kotsay, and possibly Blanco (if they opt not to go with Flowers) would be the key reserves. That's a pretty versatile and experienced group. I like it.

There's our leadoff hitter!

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Nov 19, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) If you had seen much of Honel in the minors, he really only had one plus pitch. The knuckle-curve he threw was extordinary, but his fastball wasn't a plus pitch and his change-up was solid. BA advertised him having a plus fastball, but the reality is he was a one pitch starter with a mediocre fastball that he didn't spot that well. He also got hurt. I believe people expected him to add velocity as he filled out, but it just wasn't the case. I remember one summer when he was being super hyped BA was talking a bout him sitting in the mid 90's, I go watch him pitch and he's throwing in the upper 80's, while ocassionally hitting 90/91. I played against him my Sr. year in high school and his fastball was clocked at 96mph in that game. 96mph is fast, but his problem is that it was a flat 96mph. A good hitter will have little trouble hitting a flat 96. His knuckle-curve was nasty! On a good day, he could probably tell hitters that it was coming and it wouldn't make a difference. He threw it hard with very sharp and late break. I'd compare it to Jenks' '05 hammer. Getting back to the pick of Honel, I had no problem with it. Scouts had no reason to think he couldn't add even a couple more mphs on his fastball and possibly some movement with professional coaching. His curve was pro caliber at the age of 18, so if he could learn a good change-up, then he projects as a #1 starter. He relied on his curve quite a bit so maybe that should have been a red flag about potential elbow issues.

I don't think Viciedo projects as a Major League caliber 3B so I actually side with Rogers on this.