nitetrain8601

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:04 PM) Uuuum, no. He is an All-Star. Everyday Eddie sounds good to Ozzie....reeeeeeal good. He has a half-torn rotator cuff injury. That does not scare you?? I know that would scare KW off.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) The cubs 3 aces are who?? Most people say Prior, Nut-Grabber and Mr. IR. So I gave him that one just in case he wanted to mention that team. I would say, even they don't have 3 aces.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:02 PM) Who are we giving up for Guardado? Doesn't Guardado's rotator cuff injury on his throwing arm concern you? Hell yeah. It's just a matter of time of his arm completely falling off. Plus you have to give someone up to get him.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:49 PM) Do the Sox have 3 aces? Right now I count 2 guys having great years, Jon and MB. Freddy has pitched very well at times. The sox have gotten this far based on their pitching. In order to continue their success, adding to the staff [before an injury/ ineffectiveness comes after July 31st] now makes sense, IMO. Okay, name me teams with 3 aces(with realistic shots at the playoffs). I guess if you want to count the Cubs and that's pretty much it. Bullpens are what you need in the postseason and right now, ours isn't that strong at all. It's good, but not as good as everyone else's. We also don't have an as good 3B as the rest of the teams who have a chance at the playoffs. That's coming from someone who loves Crede.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:52 PM) The Yankees Not this season... Look, if we can can rip off the Giants, I'm all for getting Schmidt. I just don't think that's going to happen and I don't know if it's worth giving up current major league players. Exactly. He would be a luxury and if we could get him for cheap, then hell yeah, but there are other things I'm looking for before starting pitching on this team.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:37 PM) What I said is it is reasonable to expect a drop off from one if not more than one of the sox big three right now--MB, Jon and Freddy. Both Jon and MB are all stars. MB is the Sox ace. But it's a long season, SP's can get hurt, lose their effectiveness etc. If the sox can add another ace, w/o hurting the short term and future makeup of the club, I'd say yes, make a trade. I don't see a big name reliever being available [like a Lidge or Billy Wagner], or a bat. Why not use some resources for a SP who the sox can and will use? Name me 1 team that has 4 aces right now, or even after trades will have 4 aces on their staff in the American League or even the National League.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:19 PM) I am not ignoring the fact that we are a much weaker hitting team than Boston. We need to be lights out pitching. It is great that Garland looks like he has turned the corner this year, but the fact is this is the first time it looks like he has figured things out. Schmidt is proven. Give me Buehrle, Schmidt, and Garcia against anyone else in the playoffs and I think we win. I feel very good with our chances with those top 3 than anything else we can throw out there today. Is it possible that Schmidt is not needed and Garland, Contreras, or El Duque can get the job done. Of course it is. However, I would rather take my chances with Jason Schimdt than any of those 3. What are we giving up anyway? Prospects? Prospects and a weak hitting third baseman for a chance at the WS? DO IT AND DO IT NOW!!!!!!!! We can always get more prospects. Schmidt's only had 2 starts in the playoffs. 1 game he gave up 4ER in 5.1IP and no runs in 9IP. So I wouldn't say he's that much more of a for sure thing than Buehrle, Garland or Garcia. Again, you are basically going to be paying for a pitcher to start no more than 2 games. You think Ozzie is going to start Schmidt over Garland, Garcia or Buehrle who have had 100X's the year Schmidt has had? Hell no. That's not happening. Schmidt would be a 10 million dollar bullpen arm in the playoffs. No need for that.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:49 PM) Of course the solution to our 4th playoff starter problem is: El Contreduque Any chance we could just split every 4th game between them?? The trouble would be figuring out which one to have start the game! I was actually thinking that earlier in the year if they needed to pitch a playoff game(as in start). Both go 4 and then you have Hermy in for the save.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) Why even compare us to Boston. They have the best hitting lineup in the majors. There is not one easy out in the entire lineup. In order for us to beat them our pitching has to be head and shoulders abover theirs, not just a little bit better. At this time I would consider the Count just a little bit better than Miller or Wakefield. They also have David Wells and Bronson Arroyo. Either one of those guys could be as good or better than the Count. Boston can flat out hit. We are built around pitching, so we can't afford a bad game from the Count. Boston can afford one of thier pitchers to get lit up because they can score tons of runs. Again, you ignore the fact that Contreras probably won't be pitching in the games unless we are up 3-1 in any series(which there's only 2 possible scenarios of if someone is way too injured to play). Schmidt is not needed. I can't people are actually debating this.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:42 PM) What are you talking about? LAA has a very good staff, Bartolo Colon, Paul Byrd, John Lackey... Minnesota, and Cleveland also have very good staffs. Boston has Clement and Schilling. I would say all but Minnesota has a better hitting lineup than ours. All of those teams are possibilities to meet us in the playoffs. LAA is the only team with a better 4th starter than us. Minny doesn't have a good 4th starter. I believe that's Kyle Lohse or Joe Mays right now. They aren't better than Count and remember, Count dominates bad hitting clubs usually. Minny is a bad hitting club. Boston had Clement and Schilling, but Miller or Wakefield as their 4th. Miller isn't back to his form pre injury. And Minny does not have a better hitting club than us.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) maybe Legion of Doom... Just bought their DVD. Pretty good. Anyway, I love the NBA. It's actually much stronger than it was in Jordan's 2nd Dynasty days. There's alot more athleticism and alot better Europeans. Some players have no idea of fundamentals though and that's what can make it unwatchable for some fans. I agree with SA/Detroit being a series of a lack of offense, not two great defensive teams.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 10:29 AM) Based on the way attendence is going up, we could see an $85 million payroll pretty easily next year. If we end up drawing somewhere around 30K a night by the end of the season along with a solid post season preformance, the payroll could concievably push $100 million, IMO. No way I see that. There's not enough players needed(position or pitching) to push 100 mil and if there was, I wouldn't see that next season. I'd think 100 mil is more realistic if we have another year like this year, next year.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:09 PM) Let's be realistic here. I'm all for making a trade to win the World Series. But is AJ Burnett or Jason Schmidt going to be the guy? In a 5-game opening series we already have Buehrle, Garcia and Garland 1-3. If we are pressed into game 4, we then have either Contreras or El Duque. Contreras's "stuff" is as good as any pitcher we are talking about trading for, but he seems to be a head case, is easy to steal on, and can be prone to give up the long ball. El Duque, on the other hand, seems to rely entirely on guile, but if completely healthy would likely be a lot better than his opponent. If the first 4 games are split, then we have Buehrle again for game 5, unless we've added Roger Clemens to our team. So why mortgage the future for 1 ALDS start? The other cost of Burnett is that he's a free agent looking for a big contract. (Another reason not to give up the farm for a guy we could have for "free" next year.) But we are already on the hook for millions for Buehrle, Garcia, and Contreras next year, plus $4 million for El Duque and a big raise for Jon Garland. Given the Sox are a zero-sum outfit, if we spend a lot more for a new starter, someone else is going to have to go. Frank Thomas? Paul Konerko? AJ Pierzynski? Schmidt poses the same dilemma with his $10 million option. Now if another team would take Contreras's $8 million salary for next year off our hands, then we might be able to slot a Burnett or Schmidt into that hole. But who would do that? We aren't going to spend $40-50 million of a $70 million payroll on 5 starting pitchers, are we? I'm not sure the answer to this, but unless management is planning on increasing the payroll next year by at least $10 million (which is what it will cost for this new starting pitcher everyone is drooling over), this all strikes me as a fantasy exercise. I certainly don't want to surrender our top prospects on a 3-month rental. (Though Roger Clemens has tempted me.) The only reason the Garcia trade has worked for us (we could sure use Mike Morse at SS instead of Uribe, couldn't we?) is we signed Garcia for 3 years. To keep the Sox winning AL Central divisions and making the postseason we need to be smart. Brandon McCarthy is the only pitcher in our system who could possibly hold down the #5 hole for a bargain price. I would think hard before trading him. In the outfield, we're stuck with Jermaine Dye through 2006, but after that we need a home grown guy to take his place. SS is another position we could use talent from within. The point is that all of you drooling over the latest guy on the trade block need to see the bigger picture and evaluate whether it will force us to blow up the team next year. I suppose if I could be guaranteed a WS victory, maybe I could die and be happy and not care. But few trade acquisitions are going to guarantee that. You know, what really hamstrings us here is the Contreras trade and to a lesser extent the El Duque signing. Because we're on the hook for $12 million for the two of them this year and next, we really can't make a move to improve our starters without trying to unload one or both of them. But who would take either of them? Face it, we may be stuck trying to make the best with our Cuban starters, but I don't see that as all bad. Contreras really can have great outings. And El Duque, if he can be used sparingly until October, might turn in a gem or two. I guess, all in all, I'm on the fence. Exact point I've been trying to make all day. You're basically mortgaging a future for 2 starts max in the playoffs. Beck72, you don't consider Buehrle an ace?? I certainly do. El Duque is just needed for 2 starts against the Twins really and Contreras just needs to finish the season. I'm not willing to spend tons of money and future for us to have to bench one of our aces for the most part in the playoffs. Look at Houston. They made a damn good run with Rocket and Oswalt and Backe who is far from an ace. St. Louis had a worse off pitching staff than that. Burnett as much as I'd love to have him and Schmidt just aren't needed or even close to being a priority. I'd say bullpen(lights out closer because I think Hermy is coming back to earth) and hitting(3rd base in particular) are much more needed than another ace.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:06 PM) Oontreras against the Redsox? Good lord. He s***s himself everytime you mention Fenway. He's a different pitcher now. Despite 2 really bad starts, he's still a damn good 4th starter who matches up with almost anyone else's #4. I think too many people on this board have gotten spoiled by what they got from Buehrle, Garcia, and Garland thus far that they think a whole pitching staff should pitch the same. That's not the case and is very unrealistic. I'm not saying Contreras won't get rocked, but it's not safe to assume he will either. Ask the Yankees if they would trade back for Contreras, I guarentee you they would say yeah.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:22 PM) I still think the road to the WS will go through Fenway. We will have the home field advantage. But game 3.4.5 would be at Fenway. The thought of having Conteras or El Duque pitch in Fenway scares the hell out of me. Schmidt or AJ would give us a better chance to win in those games. And in the playoffs there are no throwaway games. All of them count. The first one to 4 wins moves on. With the way the playoff is scheduled, you won't have to depend on them to start. It would go Buehrle, Garcia, Garland then Buehrle again. The only time El Duque or Contreras were to start is if we're about to win the series and we are up 3-1 at one point.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Dec 8, 2004 -> 11:22 AM) I've seriously had enough of these X-Box trade Dream Teams Not going to happen fellas. Then, when Kenny tries to do something to better the squad, we are going to hear..."This guy sucks. My idea was so much better. Typical Sox." Same old s***. That's not an Xbox trade. It would work on Xbox, but that's only because the computer is raping the actualy guy in this trade.

QUOTE(Antonio Osuna @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 10:58 PM) Garland and one of conde/duque will provide all the 4/5 we need if we acquire another ace, and both the loser of the 5 spot and McCarthy will be available in the pen. For the playoffs, we are going to need to win games when the back end of the rotation is pitching. If we have a real ace in the #3 hole, we can do a lot of damage. Oh, and for those of you (like myself) who violently reply to any post containing the word playoffs with "It's just June, we haven't won anything!", another Ace will be oh-so-helpful in keeping the rising Twinkies down. Again, they would start 2 games max in the playoffs. So the 4th and 5th starters will be available in the pen regardless.

QUOTE(Antonio Osuna @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 10:55 PM) Because this is our only chance for decades to win the World Series. You only start out 50-22 once in a lifetime. I'll be angry if Uncle Jerry blows it. I don't think too many Sox fans will disagree. And you do realize that 4th ace will only start 2 max games in the playoffs? Another ace isn't needed. It's a luxury.

QUOTE(Dam8610 @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 10:26 PM) Wasn't Jeremy Reed untouchable last year? I don't remember that. It was widely speculated that he would get traded in the Garcia deal since the beginning.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 10:03 PM) How in the hell do we plan on acquiring anybody halfway decent with that many untouchables? I agree. That's way too many untouchables. I'd say all of them are available minus Sweeney. But you know KW. Once he has his board, he sticks to it like the 10 commandments. I also would add Gio to the untouchable list with Sweeney.

QUOTE(ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 06:56 PM) I wouldnt mind that if Burnett resigned and the "lower tier guy" was Eric Reed. He is compared to Juan Pierre with more speed right now. He just has to work more on his hitting You have a better chance of acquiring the actual Juan Pierre.

Already being discussed in the major trade thread, but I would give up BMac, Shingo or Jizzcan and Everett for those two.

Oh yeah, Gammons shot down the Burnett to Baltimore rumor saying it would make no sense whatsoever for Baltimore because he thought Cabrera would end up becoming the better pitcher. Anyway, I would give up BMac, Everett, and Sweeney. I would ask for Burnett and a lower tier guy.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) We could send them Podsednik. Everett?

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 27, 2005 -> 03:23 PM) http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3720056 KW better be fooling us or start getting interested.