nitetrain8601

The WidgeNator... ...not even the cops can stop him

Well Brewers are 2nd place in their division(this late in the season is an achievement for them) and .500

http://minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/st...milb&pid=435221 McCarthy a 4.32 ERA and 3-4 for Charlotte. And Garland at least dealed in his last year in the minors. Look at what Garland did in his last two years in the minors. Especially his last year. He figured out the minor league game. It was time to bring him up.

QUOTE(Nokona @ May 25, 2005 -> 08:22 PM) Minor League Strikeout Leader? Sick W-L Record? Nice ERA? Strikeout leader? Yes. His ERA is 4.51 in the minors I believe. May be higher than that. His win loss is 3-5 I believe.

Thing is BMac has yet to dominate the minors like Garland did. Or even Buehrle. And when they were brought up, they were in the system for at least 1&1/2 to two years. BMac still has to work on keeping the ball down first and foremost.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 25, 2005 -> 07:46 PM) Yes he did do that, but look at what he has done recently... Injury riddled and than tired arm bs after he started great with the yanks... than he gets a tired shoulder with us after like 7 starts.... El Duque isnt the same pitcher he was back than. He would be playing right now if it were later in the year(down the stretch) or in the playoffs. KW and Ozzie told Hernandez that they would give him breaks at certain points in the season.

Ask the Braves. None of their fans show up every year when they make the playoffs. You play to win it all. I have yet to see a trophy for just being "good". You get that nice trophy with flags on it for winning the game and being the best. If you don't strive for being the best or you rather have your team being a "good one" instead of a great one, you shouldn't be a player or fan.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ May 25, 2005 -> 05:34 PM) The question isn't whether McCarthy can succeed in the pen. He can. The question is what the best thing for his development is. He moved to AAA and struggled with the long ball. He had a 4.72 ERA down there. Obviously, there's things to work on. His change, while having a great motion, tends to stay up in the zone. His curve, at times a snap dragon, has the tendancy to hang. He gave up 9 long balls in 8 AAA starts. He needs to work on consistancy with the hook and keeping the change down. His development will be hindered by pitching sporadically in the majors. We can use him every now and then and it may hurt him. Or, we can have him pitch every 5th day and continue to develop. What if he gets hammered while pitching in Coors east off a good hitting MLB team? They'll dominate if he makes the same mistakes he made in AAA. The win now attitude is fine and all. But, not if it's at the expense of a 21 year old kid who might be a CHEAP top of the rotation starter for the next 5 years. No thanks. Cotts is doing fine.

Michael Jordan/Jackson

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ May 25, 2005 -> 04:38 PM) My Grandpa is 78, My Father is 52... both White Sox Fans who like me have never experienced just one World Series Win. I would give just about anything to win even just once.

QUOTE(mduggan88 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:38 PM) I still dont get why no one likes Joe Crede. Yes he has had some ups and downs with the bat, but he still has one of the best gloves at third base in the league. Also, he is our 8 hitter, he will hit around .250 with 20 hrs and 65 rbi's. That is pretty good for your 8 hitter. Im sure there are several teams that would love that kind of glove and offensive production out of the 8 spot. So until his defense starts to slip, I think Joe Crede is a more then capable 3rd basemen for us. Welcome to the board. Great post.

Frank Thomas all the way. It's not even close.

QUOTE(Wedge @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:18 PM) Johan Santana? Here's some info: season G GS ERA 2000 30 5 6.49 2001 15 4 4.74 2002 27 14 2.99 2003 45 18 3.07 Who ended up going back to the minors because they wanted him to develop. Why do you think he only had 15 games in 2001? It was even on ESPN last week. He tried to blow everyone away(and he was a stud prospect, prolly moreso than McCarthy). He pitched out of the bullpen, and then started. They didn't think he developed right and told him to not only refine his controls, but to develop a change and that's where he fell in love with it. So he's a bad example for your defense.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:13 PM) If BMac has the talent to be a #3 SP in this league, then he has the talent to pitch in the pen. These guys didn't suck [or do well] because they first pitched in the bullpen. They suck because they can't get guys out/ throw too many meatballs/ give up too many walks. If BMac has the talent most people think he does, then a stint in the bullpen won't hurt him. Haren I believe was the Cards best pitching prospect and he's pretty highly regarded. He's supposed to be a damn good pitcher and he was one coming out of the bullpen last year for the Cards. He was though of as a future #2/#3. I think pitching in the bullpen early in their careers as opposed to staying in the minors and refining their stuff every 5th day has something to do with it.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) well, Cruz has the stuff but he has no control which is a big part, Haren has been the starter for Oakland, Adkins isnt good, Alvarez did pretty good last year doing that, Graves was a good closer last year he just lost his stuff. This is how i like to look at it, Buehrle was used as a RP and so was Garland... And now they are our top 2 pitchers so thats a good sign. As far in the same year of spot starting and bullpen relief, they've all pretty much sucked when they started. Cruz didn't get time to develop his control because of people thinking it was a better idea to just bring him up and leave him in the bullpen at least. Haren has been a starter for Oakland, but he isn't as good as advertised at all. I'm not expecting him to have an ERA of 2 either. He has a 5.19ERA and is 1-6. Adkins isn't good. Alvarez did good, but he's already older. Older guys IMO could deal with it, but not young up and coming pitchers. That's because older pitchers have worked on their stuff and it's as good as it gets. Graves stunk when he started, and sucked last year too IMHO. Ever since he was taken out of the bullpen, that's when he went downhill.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) The numbers themselves are not as important as the separations are. The classes are not of equal value either. Rotation is far more important than the others. The lists give you an idea of where your team stands in comparison to the other contenders. With respect to MIN: 36% better rotation 55% worse workhorse relief 19% worse lineup 66% worse bench 1% better general relief That tells you we can make the best gains by improving our bench & workhorse relief. The addition of Thomas will have the dual effect of improving both the bench & the lineup. Referring to his 2002 RPG ranking of 22. The lineup will lag MIN by only 8% & the bench by 40% (addition of Everett). Which leaves workhorse relief as the biggest need for improvement. The addition of a top 20 player like Wagner would erase the deficit & give the CHW a 20% edge. That should get them the division crown. You should work for the White Sox as a consultant.

Let's get Carlos Lee back and have him play LF. He's doing great today. He also leads the NL in RBI's and hit 2 HR's today already.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) I wouldnt label El Duque as ace... he has been very effective so far but he has been hit pretty hard even with the low era and than an ace has to go more than what 2.2 innings :puke Buehrle and Garland = Aces Garcia, Contreras, and El Duque = solid 2's thats rating them on how they have done on this season so far. I consider him an ace, because he's a stopper. I might have those two mixed up though.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 01:01 PM) Again, what you or I would like to see happen with Bmac doesn't matter. If he can get outs, he'll stick around. My guess is he'll be able to get outs in the sox bullpen, unless someone goes down to injury. As far as "setting him back a year if he pitches in the bullpen", I don't see how it sets him back. And if BMac sticks with the sox in the pen, the professionals in the sox org. don't see it either. And his fastball is fine. He has 3 solid pitches I'd like to see his fastball get faster unless he starts pulling the strings like Shingo. Well let's hope the Sox organization makes the right decision and puts him back in AAA. Here's two examples of relievers used as spot starters and starting the next year or started that same year that I could think of. Buehrle - Did good Juan Cruz - failed so far Danny Haren - failed so far Jon Adkins - failed so far Wilson Alvarez(though he's already older) - decent, but he's already older; just threw him in there so people don't think I'm trying to be biased Danny Graves - failed I can't think of anymore right now, but so far most of them failed.

Nope. I pass.

QUOTE(Soxfest @ May 25, 2005 -> 12:55 PM) let him start put JC or OH in pen Why? Contreras is 2-1(lack of run support for the most part) with a 3.23ERA. That's #2 stuff. Hernandez is 5-1 with a 3.91 ERA. There is no point in putting BMac ahead of those guys, especially considering we're not only in the race, we're in first place. Now if BMac was a hitter then I would say let's put him in there. Starting pitching help isn't needed for once.

Zito right now would be a good 3rd starter, but no way is he an ace any more. He's lost it for some reason. Buehrle - Ace Garland - Ace Hernandez - Ace Contreras - #2 Garcia - #2 I think the title ace goes from year to year. Look at Sidney Ponson. He was an "ace" three years back. He's no longer an ace this year and he wasn't one last year. Ace is a title that can be taken from you and given to you in any year.

QUOTE(beck72 @ May 25, 2005 -> 12:47 PM) The sox needed Bmac to fill in for El Duque. If Bmac shows he can get major league hitters out [like he did in his 1st start--a tough, tough spot to make his debut in], I don't think the sox will listen to everyone saying send him back down to AAA. The Sox aren't rushing Bmac. Rushing him would have meant starting in CHI instead of AAA. And he's coming on at his own pace. Yes, but not for an extended period of time. It was just supposed to be a 2 game thing at most. Bmac got a below average offense out. Let's see him when he faces a Yankee lineup(similar to what Neal Cotts went through a couple of years ago) and see if his s*** isn't shaken. I could understand if one of our starters has been doing piss poor, but we have the best starting staff in the league and I doubt that BMac could do any better than what our starting staff is doing now(as in ERA and wins which is all that matters). I'd like to see him develop one more pitch in triple A and get his fastball together, else you're just setting him a year back if you have him pitch in the pen this year.

que?

From what I saw on Monday, I still can't say which one I rather have. McCarthy dominated a piss poor hitting club. Ervin dominated a piss poor hitting club. Based on pure stuff and from what I've heard, I rather have Santana. His fastball is 98, not 94. He has a slider with alot of bite. His changeup is also pretty decent, but I would like to see him develop a sinker or curve, else he's just a closer with nasty stuff and a starter with above average stuff(aka 3rd or 4th starter). I think Santana will become a Vazquez/Burnett type while McCarthy will become a Buehrle/Garland(the good Garland where he attacks hitters and basically tells the opposing team, "here's my pitch, hit it if you can"). Pure stuff - Santana A pitcher who's more ready - McCarthy