Frank the Tank 35

The White Sox are on Deal or No Deal. Schriffen has found his calling and replaced Howie Mandel. There are 3 Luis Robert suitcases left, and the remaining values are $1, $200,000, and $500,000. The Mets offer low ceiling and/or reclamation prospects worth $1000. Deal or no deal?

Vaughn is the type of player the Sox should be targeting during the rebuild: former top prospect with a high pedigree from a failed organizational development program. This would, of course, presume that we would have the capability to fix said post-hype player which we have shown minimal ability to do in the past. If this off-season's staff overhaul includes a monumental investment in analytics and coaches that can apply that, then we might be onto something. Critically, it's our only path forward out of this morass that should bring any reasonable Sox fan hope. However, neither bringing in a placeholder journeyman nor a high priced FA makes sense at this stage of the "rebuild."

This is what became incredibly apparent after their most recent rebuild and really cemented, in my mind, just how far they are from basically every other organization in terms of analytics and the applications thereof. Heuristics confirmed, and think about this to make your day sour: We acquired many near-ready top prospects in the rebuild who mostly all came up and performed well in 2020/2021. Then THE ENTIRE TEAM REGRESSED. As asinine as the TLR saga was, the manager doesn't make every talented, individual player regress to that degree. Other teams scouted our players, developed ways to attack them, used that information and coached their players on its application all the while our players were told, "figure it out on your own," in hopes they had some fatalistic neurosis like Ted Williams. The same probably applies to training methodologies portending our inability to maintain health. The bottom line is that we had young CHAMPIONSHIP TALENT assembled, like some blind squirrel finding a nut, that was completely squandered by our pathetic analytics and support staff.

To pile on, look at how often modern athletes are injured. They have reached, or nearly reached, peak physical conditioning and are extracting every ounce of power and force out of their bodies. At this level of competition, you need every single fraction of an advantage against the other team, and that most definitely includes the rest cycle these high performance athletes need to recover to give them the best opportunity NOT to get hurt.

Lip is right… the ‘05 box set comes with game 3 of the ALDS. Knuckleballers will have a place; it’s not my position they don’t. But watch his mechanics. He barely uses any leverage to play up his FB. He looks like a stiff position player. Then look at Waldron by comparison. He’s maxing out what his body can do. Jordan Hicks threw more 100+ mph FBs than just about anyone last year, and hitters teed off on the pitch hitting over .300 against it. Yes, the ‘05 Sox had a collection of nice pitchers, many of which had career years, and at the time, that magic all coalesced around one perfect season. Two decades later, however, the game has accelerated and evolved. Bobby Jenks is just another high leverage reliever if you insert him into today’s game. Players are maxing out physically in a way they did not then hence all the injuries to the DeGroms of the world. A lot of this evolution is due to advancements in understanding and applying biomechanics to training methodologies and using advanced analytics to determine how to attack specific hitters/pitchers. If you’re not doing this, then you wind up with poor player development and being non-competitive. In today’s game, that is par for the course and creating some magic season from some bygone notion of the will to win becomes ever more elusive, if not impossible, if you’re not applying these things. The hill I’m willing to die on is that the ‘05 Sox was part talent and part just dumb luck, and we’d have a hell of a time trying to replicate that kind of magic in today’s game.

Since my kids were lamenting the fact that I refused to take them to a Sox game this year, I pulled out the '05 WS box set for them to watch. I'm no expert, but you couldn't put together another miracle team like that in today's game. Compared to today's players' sculpted physiques, a lot of those guys look like beer league players. Tim Wakefield pitches like a position player pulled from the OF in a blowout game only he happens to throw a knuckleball. Pitchers got by on cunning and guile. Bobby Jenks throwing 92% straight 100mph fastballs would get crushed in today's game. Today's game has less luck and "moxie" than ever before and has more to do with analytics, biomechanics and being able to interpret and coach based on those. And, of course, the hubris at the top hasn't invested squat in that.

Since we can't sign any $100M players, can we just sign new scouting and development departments to record contracts? The product on field is going to be awful for the foreseeable future, so give me an A's player budget but spend multiples of that on the analytics and development side in the meantime.

If JR could have fetishized that clause across baseball, as was likely the intent, maybe, just maybe, we’d be sitting at the adults table when it comes to FAs. Point being I’m not sure JR has actually changed. Players like Jordan and Thomas FORCED him to continue their employment by their performances alone.

“Diminished Skills Clause” says hello.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10115581-mlb-farm-system-rankings-for-the-2024-season Didn't see this posted. Wasn't April Fools a couple weeks ago? I can only hope my blind rage towards this org has rendered my objectivity useless, and that there's a shred of truth to this ranking.

How about letting one of his kids run the org then? I far prefer Michael's Bulls management over the previous era. Let them take a crack at the Sox.

I generally have zero inside info, but I do know at least one view on TLR from the 3. Can PM if anyone is really interested.

Haven't posted in some time, but I still read frequently. Been an active Sox fan for 31 years now, and this is the most disgusted I've ever been with the team. Honestly, if it wasn't for Frank Thomas and those early 90s teams, I'm not sure I would have ever latched on. Objectively speaking, this franchise is easily bottom quartile in management top to bottom past the inaugural phase of my fandom. Watching them continue to fall further and further behind the competition is a prime exercise in soul-sucking. I stopped watching all Sox games over a month ago for the first time in my life during any season no matter how bad they were. The first week, I still flipped over to check the score, but I've managed to go cold turkey since. I promised myself I would not watch a single second of Sox baseball unless TLR was fired. My kids are now at a very impressionable age and are playing little league. We have an annual pre-planned trip to the ballpark where they're generally showered with Sox gear. Had I not bought tickets during the pre-season, there's a good chance we would not have attended this year. I bought them ZERO Sox items at the ballpark. If there isn't a significant house-cleaning this offseason, I'm officially boycotting. I'll take the kids to the Brewers game instead as it's about equidistant to get there for us. I see no reason to submit my kids to this lifetime of suffering following a miserable, regressive organization.

I don't know if this post goes here or in the myriad of other rage posts, but here goes. I created some t-shirts with pertinent slogans for our 2019 White Sox. I sent the package to Brooks Boyer as a gift with this message: To: Brooks Boyer From: A Sox Fan Message: This must be a difficult time to lead the Sox marketing efforts. As a concerned Sox fan, I'd like to help and have included some slogans for the entire exec board. Please distribute appropriately. Mods: There is one shirt with a political tinge. You may need to remove if you feel inappropriate. To whoever is planning that billboard: I'm in.

Good gracious. I don't post anymore, but I do come frequently for the rumors since I don't follow all these random social media outlets. As some others have already stated, the normal banter here nowadays isn't really what I'd like to participate in. It's probably me though; I'm getting too old. Honestly, what's the difference between long-time board "insiders" and all the national or local media "insiders?" Have they been any more right or wrong than them? Let me dream a little! Dissecting the minutiae of how it was phrased and being indignant about it feels like I'm watching an episode of my wife's Real Housewives shows. Seems like a sign of the times to get triggered off misplaced or misinterpreted phrasing. Not that I'm an important member of this community, but I'd certainly be out if not for the rumor bearers. I'll go back to my cave now, but I hope the "insiders" know their contributions are appreciated by some regardless of the way the information is delivered. Thanks all.

Yesterday was the 10 year anniversary of my last post. I come lurking for the daily rumors but stay for the bickering. Hoping the Cheat pops in too.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 19, 2008 -> 04:08 AM) Who are you willing to give up for McLouth? Are you willing to trade Fields and/or Poreda, knowing/assuming that KW isn't going to give up Viciedo or Beckham? Fields? I think they have some low-level prospect named Pedro Alvarez. I know they aren't too high on him, but you never know... http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08353/935944-63.stm They'd have to be looking for pitching, middle infield depth, or a great corner OF.

This just became more feasible... Royals got Coco from Boston (as reported on the Score). As I stated in my offseason projection plan, the Royals have some position players to trade. They now have Gordon, Butler, Shealy, Jacobs, Teahen, DeJesus, Gathright, Crisp, Guillen, and eventually Moustakas to fit into 6 spots.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 15, 2008 -> 05:05 AM) Sheets isn't going to go for an incentives-based deal, he will want guarantees and he will get them from some crazy GM/owner combination. Second, Bill Hall is a disaster defensively...good idea, but it's generally better to try to find an undervauled player who's young and has upside rather than a player on the wrong side of 30. However, I don't think he would cost as much as some think, and he would be perfect for the Uribe "supersub" role, having the versatility to play most infield and outfield positions (albeit not very well!!) I don't think the Royals are going to have any incentive to trade us a potential starter in Teahen/Joe Randa Lite. Yes, Gordon's ensconced over there (although he could move to 1B if Shealy flops again) for now...and Teahen doesn't have the power for a corner outfield spot. Neither does DeJesus, to be honest. I think the odds of him being dealt to another team in the division are minimal at best. He's not a journeyman reliever, he's a decent player with doubles power who very easily could have a bounceback season batting in a line-up where there is a lot more protection all around him...that makes a big difference (Dye/Thome/Konerko/Quentin versus Jose Guillen and Alex Gordon to protect you!) Finally, I have so-so confidence at best in the names you mentioned (Contreras, Poreda, Broadway, Richard) having a huge impact on the rotation next year. Maybe I'll be proven wrong. I think Poreda needs one more season to work on his command/control and offspeed stuff...Richard is ideally the 2nd lefty out of the pen...Contreras, the rest might be great for his arm, but I'm not sure his aging lower body can survive another season with all the weight you put on an Achilles'/ankle. Fingers crossed on that one. I agree Hall is horrible defensively at third. (Psst, he's 28...) And I'd love to find a young, undervalued player in the mold of Quentin, but c'mon, how likely is that? How long did it take just to land TCQ? We're not going to be able to find and acquire a player like that every year. We'd be lucky to do so every decade. So let's put aside the delusions of finding the next one. I think he fits the mold as a buy-low and as a fallback/sub to 3B and CF, Hall would provide some pop and possibly more with a change of scenery. With Moustakas likely coming up sometime next year, it just pushes Teahen further out of the picture. Playing him in a corner OF spot doesn't make any sense. A corner OF who posted a .715 OPS last year with little speed shouldn't have a starting job. Granted that's down from .763 last year and .874 two years ago. And, yes, he could have a bounceback season. That's why I mentioned him. That IS what you're looking for isn't it? Young guys who have upside?? The SP names I mentioned were for the eventuality of Sheets midseason injury. You know, guys who could be ready to contribute mid-way through next year in the likely event Sheets would have to miss a month. And I know owners are ridiculous and sometimes throw far too many dollars and years at SPs, but if Sheets gets more than $12-13M/yr and 4yrs guaranteed, this world has gone insane. I could see escalators and incentives taking it up to $16-17M per with up to two option years tacked on. But with his history of injury, any team paying more than that is fiscally irresponsible especially in today's economy. This isn't my IDEAL offseason. My ideal offseason is comprised of ridiculous trades and signings of players like CC, McLouth, Roberts, Hardy, etc. This is just a realistic view of what I think would be likely to happen, and I'd be fine with that. We'll probably make one big FA signing, one decent sized trade, and then the rest would be buy-low/filler type acquisitions.

After some thought, here is my completely realistic offseason plan: Sox needs: 1 SP, 1 3B, 1 SS/2B, (1 CF?), (RP?) Need 1: SP Ben Sheets. I know all the reasons why not. But think about the why yes. First, despite being a top talent when healthy, he will not command more years than Reinsdorf is willing to go. 3-4 years with incentives would probably be the max contract length. Granted, he will undoubtedly injure himself at some point. Fortunately, we should have backups halfway through next year in Contreras, Poreda, Richard, Broadway, etc. Worst case scenario we convert him to a closer at some point in his contract a la Smoltz and Wood. Need 2: 3B I really think KW will give Fields another shot next year when he's fully healthy, but that doesn't mean he should be given the job without any competition. Since GB is being projected as a middle infielder in as little as two years, it seems like KW should try to invest in something long term at 3B. I think KW will bring in someone to compete or share time with Fields at 3B. I could see Teahen coming over relatively cheap after putting together a couple lackluster seasons after seemingly breaking out. With all the talent coming up in the Royals system, he could be nabbed. However, I think a better choice might be Bill Hall. Also a couple seasons removed from a breakout year, he has all sorts of talent pushing him out of a job in Milwaukee. Additionally, he spent a good amount of time in CF (more later...). Granted, he's not the best defensive option, but I think it would be a lot easier to acquire him than say Beltre. If all the options fall on their respective faces, I expect KW would have Uribe waiting on the bench. Need 3: SS/2B With Ramirez being able to play either position, it makes it easier for KW to find a complementary player. While I really don't think KW should be selling Swisher low, I think a team that matches up really well for a trade is the Braves. Their outfield is in shambles. With Andruw gone and Francoeur all over the place, their strength is their infield. With ample talent at SS/2B in Prado, Cabrera, Johnson, and Lillibridge, they could trade out of their strength for some outfield help. Now if they think they can be seriously competitive next year with their aging rotation coming back, they might be more interested in Dye. Either way, I think we could match up well. I could definitely see a Swisher for Kelly Johnson trade going down. Johnson would add a lefty bat and a pretty decent OBP. He would reach free agency in about three years, so he'd be a good transition to GB. Need 4: CF Trading Swisher/Dye would necessitate a movement to acquire a CF unless KW had plans for Owens/Anderson. Initially, I thought Baldelli would be a prime buy-low target. The Rays certainly won't be bringing him back with all the talent on their roster. However, with the news of his muscular disease, maybe he was done. Then he homers against the Red Sox, and reports of his medication going into effect come out. If the Sox acquired Hall, they could use him as a safety net in case Baldelli went down again. Need 5: RP I don't think this is a pronounced need if the pen stays healthy. After this past season where KW spent crazy dollars on relievers, I don't think anything is out of the question short of some crazy K-Rod contract. Maybe an incentive-laden contract for Rafael Soriano? Overall in this scenario, the Sox would take on some risk betting that these players either stay healthy or reinact some of their previous performances, but that's what goes into a season. You need a few things to break your way if you're going to win it all anyway. In this scenario, the Sox don't trade many prospects at all from a depleted farm system except for Bill Hall. It doesn't have any complicated 3-way trades that would never go down. It doesn't give out any ridiculous long-term contracts that you know would never fly with Sox brass. Their aren't any deluded visions of all-stars coming to our team save a "healthy" Sheets. There aren't any longshot notions of the Sox trading one of their aging veterans for future perennial all-stars. This seems like the most realistically optimistic vision I have for the 2009 season. Lineup Kelly Johnson Baldelli/Alexei Quentin Dye Thome Konerko Alexei/Baldelli AJ Hall/Fields/(Uribe) Rotation Mark Sheets/(Contreras)/(Poreda)/(Richard) Danks Floyd Vazquez

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0...0,3109300.story Well, if Sabean wants to restock his team with more veterans...

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 7, 2008 -> 08:57 AM) I don't get all of this attention that Nate McClouth is getting. He's had one good season! I'm sure he has great potential going into the future, but I just don't see that the farm is worth him. Besides that I think this is a good post. I like most of the ideas you shared with us. The only thing is if we trade Dye to the Angels I think we should get Figgins/Adenhart/lower level prospect back for him. Then sign Freddy for the 4th or 5th spot. How many trades can you remember the Pirates winning? I think the last one was the Todd Richie trade. They owe us one. It probably won't happen, but it would be easier than trying to trade for Sizemore. In limited time last year, he had an OPS of .810. This year, his first full season as a starter, his OPS was .853 playing center field with 23 SBs in 26 attempts. When was the last time the Sox traded for a superstar at the peak of his performance? Oh, and before this gets out of hand, the correct spelling of his last name is, "McLouth."

Random thoughts Jim Thome will be on the 2009 roster. His option kicked in. He doesn't want to be traded anywhere except Cleveland/Cubs and neither is happening. Therefore, either Dye or Konerko should be traded. With Konerko having a down year, unless a team is willing to give full value in return, I'd keep him for next year in hopes that he rebounds. If Tex doesn't sign with the Angels, I could see them being a good trading partner for Konerko. That leaves Dye as the odd man out. Best to trade him before he has a down year... As much as I hate these types of players on my team, Troy Glaus would probably be available for the right price. With one year left on his contract and Brett Wallace waiting in the wings, he seems like a likely trade candidate for the Cards to upgrade at another position. Not sure KW would depend on a reclamation project in the rotation. After winning the division this year, I think he'd go with someone more reliable. Which bring me to my next point... Winning the division this year despite the dismal seasons of several regulars (Crede, Konerko, etc) makes it easier to trade away some of the older veterans while maintaining expectations of competing for the title again next year. Despite the fact that Lowe is a Boras client, he's still 35 years old. I mean, how big of a contract could he expect to get? With the types of pitches he throws, he seems like a good fit for our ballpark. If the Sox could swing an inflated 3 year deal, why not? Even though Vazquez has been dragged through the mud recently, I still don't see him being traded. Who would replace him plus fill the spot vacated by Contreras? I wouldn't trust the spot to Richard outright. If there was one starter I'd target as a buy-low, it would be Snell. This past year should have been a breakout year for him, but instead he took a nosedive. Bringing him aboard, I'd feel comfortable with him and Richard battling for the 5th spot. I don't know what bullets the Sox have left in the minors to pull off trades. Poreda is probably our one trading chip that could pull something decent in return. Not sure if KW believes he's in his longterm plans or not. If his ceiling is a reliever, it might be a good time to let go. If he has a shot at the rotation, we have to develop him. I don't know why people have a problem with Hudson at leadoff. His career OBP is .347. Over the past few years, it's been higher than that. I don't know how many people have actually looked up the number of players who have a high OBP and a high number of steals without a high number of HRs (if a player has a high number of HRs, he's likely NOT batting leadoff...), but there aren't a lot of those players, especially ones that are available. Hudson's defense at second is considered to be top notch as well. Hudson doesn't steal a ton, but he's not molasses. Furcal's sure to get more money/years anyway. I'd love to get me some Nate McLouth. I'd love to start turning over the old parts on our roster. Chances are it doesn't happen, but I'd applaud KW if it does.

Ken Rosenthal http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8634130...3162&ATT=49 ... and interestingly