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QUOTE(BobDylan @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 11:21 PM) I'm not sure how you'd rate Morrissey as only an honorable mention. Also, an easy one that you didn't mention at all: Nick Cave. How about Lou Reed? Andrew Bird? Ani DiFranco? Jarvis Cocker? There was only ten spots and its not like i'm short on names. Lou Reed would fall into legends category, cause this was more of a modern songwriters and i haven't listened to a reed album post coney island, baby. I can never bare listening to Difranco. Nick cave, sure, andrew bird I don't think would hit top 20, cocker was on my mind, but i only did top 10. I was also missing Michael P. Hinson, beck, spencer krug, daniel johnston, etc.

i believe it's 'mad world' originally done by Tears for Fears

QUOTE(Soxy @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) According to The Trib's Watcher (their tv person), on November 30th there will be an episode that was written by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant. I'm very excited about that. I've been re-watching the british series, and am really looking forward to their spin on the American series. Hurray! Awesome.

i didn't find 'the presidents dead' political at all. I think Sheff honestly one ups sufjan in rhyme schemes, he rhymes internally as well as end rhyme, and some times interchanges them during the song and its quite awesome. I think Top ten songwriters at the moment, and i'm gonna leave out dylan and tom waits just because its obvious and this could be fun, and we all love lists at soxtalk, i'm gonna go: 1. Will Oldham/Bonnie 'Prince' Billy 2. Jeff Tweedy 3. M. Ward 4 Isaac Brock 5. Will Sheff 6. Sufjan Stevens 7. Stuart Murdoch 8. Dan Bejar 9. Mark Kozelek 10. David Berman *honorable mentions* Pollard, Morrissey, Merritt, sam beam i guess. Joanna Newsome and Chan.

as far as okkervil river...have you heard "death of a president", the hypothetical death of a leader i liken to whitmans oh captain, wonderfully done and beautifully rhymed. I don't think sheff only relies on love in his writing, i think storytelling is just as big a part, which is why i think he picked scott walker's black sheep boy to create an album out of. and okk. river was an opening set at metro. I saw them at the blue note in Col. MO, and for one at that decemberists concert, i thought the horn/slide guitarist/keyboarder with the red hat was hilarious. But they were funny and open and can rock and build up their songs and tear them down and build them up again in a disastrous via chicago type way and its beautiful. Per dylan, an interesting question, i think i'll take on his 60's-70's pop hits, they were current and topical, and i think relaying your view on a current time is inherently personal, as the way you are feeling is projective to the song. I can think of no other explanation as to why he so exagerrated the gangster in 'Joey'. oh, rereading i see that i'm agreeing with you, anyway. I guess at this point, i guess i have to concede that there is a certain shallowness to my opinion. Not shallow due to lack of familiarity, but perhaps shallow in that i might not be listening to what it is, i might have listened to what i wanted it to be. And perhaps when i didn't get my way, i certainly didn't shelve it, I ranked it my #1 last year, but as this year went on, with so much new things to listen to and analyze, i'm thinking when i listened again, i was listening but not hearing, and gave it a 'nice to listen to, not to be consumed by'. And if sufjan has a gift, it is that his string arrangements can say more than any lyric he can create, if you allow yourself to be hear it. That said, i think he has too much talent to stay complacent in his mich/ill style.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Nov 15, 2006 -> 03:43 AM) I don't know what to say to somebody that considers themselves more of an average fan of Stevens but thinks his writing isn't personal. I respect your opinions a great deal, but really, you need to LISTEN to what Stevens is writing. It's almost like he's giving you a f***ing key to his heart. And it should be noted that Seven Swans was a solo album. And who cares if the styles don't change record to record? It's obvious IlliNOISE was his best feat yet, isn't it? He's said he's looking to make change from there, right? So he releases a few b-sides, slaps a Christmas Box set out, so what? He hasn't earned that right? Not many people can "crap out" good songs like that regardless of what style they play in, right? He's put out 5 good LP's in 5 years. Some can't even do 2 in 10, 20, 30 years. And besides, hardly ANYONE noticed Stevens before IlliNOISE, yet, people can chastise him for not experimenting? What a joke. I never said his writing isn't personal, I said his writing has become impersonal. And per the solo album part, i'm not sure what that means, his traveling band right now isn't really set in stone. But for instance, per seven swan's "to be alone with you": I'd swim across lake Michigan I'd sell my shoes I'd give my body to be back again In the rest of the room To be alone with you To be alone with you To be alone with you To be alone with you and per my fav. song off seven swan's 'good man is hard to find: I once was better. I put off all my grief. I put off all my grief. And so I go to hell, I wait for it, but someone's left me creased. now, not that you have to be first person to be personal in songwriting, i think we all know it can be in first person and be just as impersonal, but i especially liked his almost guilt in how he can't help but give up everything for this girl in to be alone with you, and his recognition of imperfection in seven swans. Now in michigan i felt it was a transition, i felt flint was a very personal song in his identification of loneliness in the working class, but then you get 'the upper peninsula: I live in a trailer home With a snow mobile, my car The window is broken out And the interstate is far I drove all night To find my child In strange ideas He's been revived and then illinoise lyrics: Sangamon River it overflowed It caused a mudslide on the banks of the operator civil war skeletons in their graves, They came up clapping in the spirit of the aviator The sound of the engines and the smell of the grain, We go riding on the abolition grain train Steven A. Douglas was a great debater, But Abraham Lincoln was the great emancipator ; I'm not afraid of Nichol's Park I ride the train and I ride it after dark I'm not afraid to get it right I turn around and I give it one more try I said things that I meant to say The bandstand chairs and the Dewey Day parade; not to say that there aren't writing gems on illinoise, despite not being my fav. of songs, man of metropolis has the best rhyme scheme he's probably had, and gacy is a haunting perspective done in the best way. ANd to my main point, its that he has no other styles he shows anymore, and after 4 albums i've heard i can make the judgement that he's stuck in a rut right now. He may not have had the national following he has now, but michigan was hardly a blip in the radar, that whole 'danielson famille' and sufjan we're doing their own thing and it culminated in both of them finding their most interesting string arrangements within a year apart of eachother. So in closing, agree to disagree, I'll take my will sheff, you can take your sufjan, in the end we are both getting better music than the majority of people, f*** subjectivity. but a word from will sheff: And I think I believe that, if stones could dream, they'd dream of being laid side-by-side, piece-by-piece, and turned into a castle for some towering queen they're unable to know. And when that queen's daughter came of age, I think she'sd be lovely and stubborn and brave, and suitors would journey from kingdoms away to make themselves known. And I think that I know the bitter dismay of a lover who brought fresh bouquets every day when she turned him away to remember some knave who once gave just one rose, one day, year's agooooo...

plus I feel the best way to know what was going on in the founding fathers heads is to read the federalist papers. And never in reading many of those did i read that these laws were being formed after the christian bible.

the economy may be good now but doubling the debt in 6 years, the ball will drop sometime. A change in what indeed.

oh movies too good call! I would like to see a list of dvd's out in december.

if its a long trip by myself and i need to stay awake, i'll listen to talk radio or a comic album. but if its just a good hour distance i like hypnotic albums like neu! or post-rock. Or i'll just shuffle and see what i haven't listened to in a while.

i'll just go for books/music/clothes... gonna give books/music/clothes

he has absolutely nothing to say politically and i'm sure most of the people who listened to his show didn't do it to hear anything other than the made up phone callers he got. I'd like to see how much his ratings dropped when he goes on 30 min. rants on how "if you put your mind to it you can do anything!"

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Nov 14, 2006 -> 06:56 PM) I thought that a lot of Illinoise was deeply personal or at least felt that way. John Wayne Gacy feels as much about Sufjan as Gacy. if anything i felt that JWG gave the feeling of being the victim of the crimes and having an almost sympathetic view of gacy.

an average fan? LOL i own all his albums minus enjoy your rabbit. I'm just saying I highly doubt he will be considered in the same realms of music greats unless he shows some more versatility than just 'adding more strings'. He's a storyteller, and its fun the songs he can make about any towns, like the NPR challenge where he had 3 days to write a song about some rural town, and made a nice diddy, but his recent work is so 3rd person i think it sucks that he isn't letting us know him. The introspective lyrics are gone, which is as arrogant as anything malkmus was accused of doing with his nothing lyrics.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Nov 14, 2006 -> 05:10 AM) I feel like Michigan and IlliNOISE are different from Seven Swans. Seven Swans is more banjo heavy as the other two are more layered and better built with trumpets (Seven Swans has a very light trumpet arrangement) and other instruments I don't know what are (flutes? clarinets? oboes?) yes it escalated, but in the same realm that coldplay escalated. I'm a sufjan fan, but i def. need him in small doses. He is a bit self-indulgent, illinoise ran damn lengthy, a real marathon to finish. That and his tempo changes are just predictable.

a sun came sounds pretty radically different but his 4 most successful albums, seven swans>michigan>illinois>illinois bsides, its not like if i just put those four on random i'd be able to specifically know which is which album if i erased knowledge of their placement.

his earlier stuff was more structured as joke stories though "my brother hired me and it sucked" as opposed to now, which is just him talking...

he sounds too similar on every album. I like sufjan, but he's rather formulaic.

i honestly used to like him, the first bit i saw on comedy central way back when. But the more i saw, the more i just felt like it was hard syllables and screaming, and then i'd talk to other people and they'd say the same thing...and it really just led to dislike. Tourgasm was the most godawful show i've seen comics put on ever, going off the first episode.

i liked the new album by the shins a lot. the dudes just make really nice pop music. Btw i thought i remember seeing a buncho trail of dead fans here, its been leaked a month...what do you all think? I love to listen to it, even though i don't find it a particularly strong album. I DO like the GBV cover, i think some people just think GBV is a band you should never cover but the rawness of all their songs i think leave open interpretations of them rather interesting.

I had to listen to hootie and theblowfish all weekend it was awful. I snuck in a van morrison album for my sanity.

they are screwed v. Grey's anatomy.

Jim faxing dwight from the future was hilarious

M-I-Z!!! eh, i got nothin.

i found this: What's in the box • iPod • Earphones • USB 2.0 cable • Dock adapter • Case • Quick Start guide "Case" is rather vague, but i'm leaning towards there not being a clip in there.