SleepyWhiteSox

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:44 PM) Who cares? It doesn't make it right if the government profits off of it. It doesn't make it right if anyone profits off of it. Exactly. And I'd like to see the government make the proper moves, not this silly new law. Unfortunately, they're not.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:42 PM) Friends of family. Helping them out. Some are relatives that are here legally such as an aunt or uncle helping them out. Do you just read what you want to read? Family only helps out so much. Nobody stays anywhere for free very long. No need to be bitter because our opinions on a subject differ.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:40 PM) And who do you think is primarily paying for people who make less than minimum wage to go to a doctor for a job they shouldn't be working at in the first place, when they shouldn't be here in the the first place, when they are hurt because their employer didn't take any precautions to make them safe in the first place. My tax dollars should not be subsidizing an illegal activity. Period. We shouldn't be rewarding people for an illegal activity. By giving them access to all of our services without following any of our laws, or contributing to our tax base, you are stealing from every tax payer in this country. For every incentive you remove that rewards people for breaking the law, you force people to follow the laws and both pay people legal wages, and make sure that they are working in safe working places. Until the time where the employers have a reason to give a fair wage and a safe workplace, they are going to continue to abuse illegal aliens with their status as the ultimate threat. Ever think that maybe the government doesn't do enough about it because the economy makes more out of it than if it was properly regulated?

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:37 PM) That is exactly what I was saying. However, it is not just these jobs that are being taken. It is happening right here in Chicago. Friends of family help people come over here illegally and place them with jobs with other friends. Not bad jobs at all. All under the table. Truck drivers, construction, dock workers, and dry wall workers are some that I know of. Those are not just some pennies on the dollar type of jobs. They do pretty decent, especially when you consider they have friends of family giving them a room to stay in and helping them live and they aren't paying taxes. It adds up pretty nicely. So if employers are paying them good money, why run the risk? Why not pay legal citizens that money?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:33 PM) It shouldnt be illegal for a doctor to treat them if they get injured at that job though. Exactly.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) This law is much for for the citrus grower in south Texas who knowingly goes to Brownsville and rounds up 20 Mexicians to help him pick his harvest for 1/10 the the cost, than it is for the doctor treating patients. Part of the reason so many people come here illegally is that they know they can get these jobs without going through the legal means. By making a disincentive for employers to commit an illegal activity, you go a long way towards stopping that illegal activity. The equivilent would be to arrest everyone who uses drugs, but to let all of the dealers and suppliers go, because they weren't actually using the drugs. They are still contributing to an illegal activity. It already is illegal to hire undocumented workers.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:29 PM) Oh trust me, those are not fake. They are taking others identities, someone else's SS# is being used. Yep, that too. And they never see that money again.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:23 PM) They get paid a lot more here than they would in Mexico. That is why they come here. A lot of them get paid the same as an American worker would if he/she was not educated. They are dock workers and truck drivers and drywall/contstruction workers. They don't get paid s***. They get paid a lot more than you think. Not all of the jobs they have are minimum wage, plus they are not getting taxed. And many use fake social security numbers and other such documents...some money does get taken out; it isn't all under-the-table.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:19 PM) Somehow I think working in dangerous conditions for pennies on the dollar with no protections of anykind they are contributing more than they are taking out. There is nothing to make sure that these people are safe, or to make sure that they are even getting paid. They are here illegally and their very status is in danger if they try to stand up for themselves. You don't seem to get that making sure that everything is done legally is for their own protection as well as the protection of the American tax payer and employers... But I guess that arguement is only valid for abortion right? Whoah, abortion? I'm gonna stick with this subject instead... Again, I would gladly be happy if such a program as some of you are describing was put in place. And my problem from the start has been with those who assist illegal immigrants being arrested, charged, jailed, etc...whether it be doctors, social workers, whatever...even common citizens who may unknowingly help an undocumented person. This new law itself is being protested because of that.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) Baseball had a policy against steroid use since 1991, but did not start testing until 2003. Was it ok for baseball players to use steroids against the policy in order to improve their numbers before 2003? Not sure where you're going with that one... Using steroids is harmful. Working to provide for your life is not.

QUOTE(zach61 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:16 PM) Yes. If that same doctor assisted someone who did nothing wrong at the time, but later flew a plane into a building, would you be ok with that doctor helping that person too? Sure would. The doctor is just doing his job, and a very noble one in helping people at that. Even jailed criminals get medical assistance when necessary. It's silly to blame a doctor for that example.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:42 PM) This part is true. That is why I personally would like to see a migrant worker program. They can continue to contribute, and continue to get paid better than they do in their own country. But we need to make sure they are documented, protected, and paying into the system like everyone else. That includes, by the way, the businesses that hire them. And yeah, some people here do b**** about the extent and type US foreign aid. I am sometimes among them. Agreed on all points. But until the government smartens up and implements such plans, I don't completely fault hard-working individuals who come to work and provide for their families. Yes, it's illegal (as are other laws oftentimes broken), but I don't see any malicious intent, and definitely not enough for them to recieve the negativety that they do...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 04:03 PM) Eventually no, but had there been one available she'd have taken it. Temporarily, I imagine...

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:55 PM) Took my fiancee over 2 years after we got out here to find a job. She applied for multiple fast-food jobs just so she could have something to build a resume & pay towards her college loans. Couldn't even get that. Finally found something decent last fall. Is what she found in fast food? I imagine that with a college education she will be able to move up well in whatever she does. By the way, congrats on the fiancee.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:43 PM) As far as "their contributions to the economy far outweugh whatever benefits they get". There's no way you can make that statement and be correct about it when they are ILLEGAL... they take other jobs that others LEGALLY could have. And which jobs are those?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:42 PM) 2. They also do significant amounts of damage to the economy, by driving down wages for average working people and taking away jobs. Ah, yes...people are clamoring for those fast-food, gardening, and cleaning jobs... :rolly

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:35 PM) Easy. A very large amount of the money earned by undocumented workers gets sent home to their families in their countries of origin. Its why many people come here in the first place. At least with a guest worker program, these people pay into our tax system and contribute to the very programs that they want to be able to recieve. At this point that doesn't happen. Right now the dollars that should be going to help families in this country, are going out of the USA. The get paid s***, for the most part. These aren't people making CEO salaries. :headshake Their contributions to the economy far outweigh whatever benefits they get. So do you people b**** about aid the U.S. gives to foreign countries as much as this?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:26 PM) It has nothing to do with immigrants. It has everything to do with ILLEGAL activity. If the US wants to set up a guest worker program and have people here legally to work that is great. That way the immigrants are protected from being taken advantage of and ensuring their rights, and my tax dollars aren't subsidizing illegal activity and families in other countries who don't pay taxes to the US. How exactly are your tax dollars assisting families in other countries? Such a program does not exist so people in need who don't have time to wait for it get here however they can.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:22 PM) First, I wasn't directing the STFU at you, my apologies for coming across that way. And I'm a lot more informed about it then you think. It's called they are here ILLEGALLY. Therefore, they are NOT protected by the US Constitution. Secondly, as Northside asked, and I'll repeat, what I see here is a protest for ILLEGAL ALIEN rights, not the legals of this country. Biiiiiiiiig difference. My bad. I just don't agree that those who are here legally along with citizens should be punished for assisting someone here illegally. The great example being used is that a doctor who assists someone here illegally will be committing a crime. Does that merit jail time?

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:17 PM) :rolly It really should be that easy. All the f'in whining and sniveling about "MY RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED" is pure horses***. We're treating these people so f'in badly that they keep coming back ILLEGALLY. STFU. stfu? You're obviously not even properly informed on the topic at hand so there's no use in discussing it if you're just going to turn it into an excuse to express your negative bias towards immigrants.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:15 PM) I tend to agree. I also think the laws should be changed on becoming a legal resident, but I even more fervently believe in following the existing laws. Boy am I having a GOP kind of day. The law in question effects legal residents and citizens also.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:13 PM) YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALY, STFU, GO HOME, AND COME BACK LEGALLY!! Yep, it's that easy... :rolly

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 03:08 PM) These people better be gone by 3:45 Sounds like you sure are in support of the cause...

QUOTE(Queen Prawn @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 01:33 PM) The child. Why? Two reasons. One, from what I can remember from high school biology, the pain receptors do not develop for some time after conception (it's been 15 years since that class so bear with me if I screwed that up) and the 2 year old obviously already has pain receptors. Two, the kid is already here; a definite where there are no guarantees that the fertilized eggs would successfully inplant, grown to be a full-term baby and be birthed alive. On the abortion issue, I, myself do not believe in it and likely could never go through with one, but I am not about to stop a woman who is okay with it from having one. (I do believe that abortion is completely acceptable in cases of rape and incest.) Agree completely.

By the way, I like that the channel was included in the thread title...