RockRaines

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=...d2=Hank+Blalock comfirming once again that Crede is better than Blalock

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 03:03 PM) Wisconsin probably has the best basketball/football program combo in the league, although that may change with "The Thad 5" arriving in Columbus next year. And in 2007 OSU is mentioned in just about every top 25 player's portfolio. Thad Matta is a great coach. But then again, im biased.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:58 PM) I know, sorry....that was more BadgerSox. I am trying to have 2 debates at once, and not doing well at it. I have little emotion about this in general, as results speak for itself. I am just confused here, will Bruce's class of 2007 not matter for a few years? Of course it won't, but at the same time, it shows he can get the big time recruits to come to Illinois. Now, plenty of big time recruits have busted, but I would think the class of 2007 proves he can at least GET big players. I will agree on that, if that is still the case come this time next year. 2007 is a long way away. This time last year, the class rankings were ALOT different.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:55 PM) My point is, what do you consider to be the basis of recruiting? Is it how highly players are ranked out of HS, or how they do in college? Because you can't truly evaluate a person's recruiting skills until you see how his recruits actually do, and with Bruce, we still don't know. His record at Illinois is pretty good though, and I wish people would give him a chance to suck before saying he can't recruit and can only get skinny white kids. Its pretty clear I was basing it on recruiting hype coming out of high school. I linked the rivals page where it gives class rankings, that is all. Nobody truly knows what the players will become, and the coach has alot to do with that. Bill Self constantly gets blue chip players, and still doesnt have the success that better coaches have with less talent. Of course, the teams I was referencing in the big ten to be getting great talent, have good coaches, MSU, Wisco, OSU.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:53 PM) Overall? Of course it's not, not even close. I'm just baffled at the attacks people put on the basketball program, and how it's turned into "Illinois is an embarassment, a bad school, has bad athletics, I can't be proud of it". I never said that. Im from chicago, I know its a good school, has had good basketball and sometimes good football all my life. The basketball program has brought positive attention to the state of illinois, and to the chicago area. Bruce Weber is a great coach and a good guy. All i said is that his recruiting skills arent elite, and I dont see them being as good in the future considering all the talent that other big then schools are getting lately.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:51 PM) That makes no sense!! That's like saying Adam Morrison doens't count as a good recruit. Sure, he leads the nation in scoring, but he was only a 3 star!! Recruiting stars only matter until you show up on campus, then it's all about if you can play. Wisconsin basketball has never recruited 5 stars all that well, and they seem to do pretty well. Bruce seems to be trying to mix in star recruits and role players, and yet he can't recruit because when a player comes in and contributes, he didn't have enough stars next to his name in HS to be legit. Ok, I think you have too many emotions riding in this argument being as this must be the school you currently attend, so I will just drop it. It would be impossible to keep debating this when there is so much bias. I think you are missing my point and I am missing yours apparently, so we can just call it that.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:46 PM) Perhaps that is why no one can really take seriously all this talk of how Illinois is this great sports powerhouse. I mean Ive read where people have said that Illinois sports program is better over all than Wisconsins. I hope that was never said. As far as the major sports overall, I would think Illinois wouldnt be in the top three in the big ten.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:47 PM) Oh so you quote my post, then use 'you' as a pronoun for another post in the thread. You must have gotten confused midway through your epic mindless driveling. Thanks anyway. You, was a general statement towards your side of the argument, I explained it in my post. I quoted you because I responded to your statement first. Try and keep your head out of the gutter though, the personal shots have no place here.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:44 PM) Shaun Pruitt looked pretty good last night, that's a Weber recruit. Jamar Smith is top 10 in America shooting 3's, that's a Weber recruit. CJ is redshirting, but you'll see him next year. Frazier does very well for a freshman off the bench. His recruits other than Brock, who has been a bust, have seemed pretty decent so far. But then again, he can't recruit because he only gets 3 stars, but Wisconsin recruits well since they find 3 star "diamonds in the rough". And please, save the spelling lessons and calling me "kid", not sure what point that makes other than your getting pissed and trying to hide it when in reality this is simply a friendly debate. I do not believe that im the one getting pissed, I was simply correcting your spelling. I have tried to keep this as friendly as possible as I do not care much about the subject in all honesty. So you name some players that are contributing, ok. That didnt answer the question, he has had 3 mediocre classes so far correct? If his next class is highly touted I will change my mind, but up to this point, he hasnt brought in one worth talking about.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:41 PM) Where in the flying f*** did I call you a Kansas fan? Did you even read my post? Didnt say you said that, if you read the post above yours, you would have saw who did. Thanks anyway.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:39 PM) i don't know what's worse, illinois fans getting overly defensive or people who don't like illinois and have agendas in any post they make regarding them. regardless, i'll avoid getting into some long-winded discussion with people who are always going to find fault with illinois regardless of circumstance. i'll just say i'm confident in illinois coach, in its recruits and in the overall direction of the program. i'll leave it at that and let others get into the dogma. BTW, I never said he was a bad coach. Bobby Knight was never a guy who recruited the huge stars out of high school. He just took his players, who were less talented, and beat the teams that he shouldnt have. Thats why I always liked him as a coach on the floor. Bruce Weber is 10 times the coach Bill Self ever was, but Self did bring in the better players.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:37 PM) You guys can't have it both ways. So recruiting rankings are overrated, but Illinois can't recruit, but their great 2007 class won't matter for a while. The circular arguments are something, please just admit you hate Illinois and root for your team, because your clueless in this case. Your and You're are two different words kid. Secondly I never said rankings are overrated, they just change. He has had 3 mediocre incoming classes correct? At this time next year if his next class is elite, I will change my perception, until then, he has shown he doesnt have the recruiting prowess it takes to compete year after year in a great conference.

QUOTE(Chisoxrd5 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 02:02 PM) I love when people decide to post in threads where they have no idea what they are talking about, just to try and raise hell for no particular reason. "The guy simply can't recruit" is soooo 2005 of you. That argument pretty much went out the door when Eric Gordon verballed to the Illini a few months ago. Hes the #1 SG in the country for 2007. I do agree with Palehose however. The amount of guys that 'have to bulk up' that Weber is bringing in is insane. You can include Semrau, Cole and Tisdale all in that group. soo 2005 huh? The amount of defensive Illini fans are so great after one good run. All of a sudden Weber is a god, and Illinois is a basketball powerhouse. So you are resting your hopes on high school juniors huh? Good luck with that. The player rankings that you are basing your hopes on will no doubtedly change, and other players will be recruited by other schools. Having 3 players in the top 100 is a norm for elite programs,in the big ten alone, MSU, Wisconsin and OSU all have accomplished that or near that THIS year. Calling me stupid and telling me to "go to kansas" just makes you look more retarded. Considering you dont even know who I root for apparently, and take a blind shot in the dark makes you sound like a cubs fan taking a blind shot at a sox fan. Its not like im pulling this out of thin air, his team since he got to illinois was not recruited by him, and didnt really want to play for him in the first place. Now he is losing his top players, starting to build his own program, and doesnt appear to have made great strides in his first year after an elite season. He may be a good coach on the floor, but he is not good in the living room. And thats a fact. Grasp at straws all you want, it only makes you look defensive and weak.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 01:24 PM) Keep dreaming. The 2007 class is gonna be ridiculous. Gonna huh? They have nobody for next year, and they wont in the future. The guy simply cant recruit.

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Jan 17, 2006 -> 10:57 PM) Whitesoxjosh. Fixed. Its a certainty.

Illinois is not going to sniff another big ten title after this year for awhile. Bruce Weber cant recruit and has had his success with players that were there before him. He doesnt even have a class on the top 25 incoming while OSU, MSU, and Wisco do. http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=477059&sid=910 here is the updated rankings.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 11:16 AM) I think becuase everyone is this thread is on my ignore list

I declare this thread DOA.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 18, 2006 -> 09:29 AM) Yep, and the Cubs countered with an offer of $6 million. Cubs exchange arbitration figures http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/new...t=.jsp&c_id=chc They countered on all of their arb players. They didnt accept a single offer.

He is still asking for 7 million in arb

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 17, 2006 -> 04:01 PM) But if Prior has a "flawless delivery" and great mechanics, what was wrong with his achilles? Or his sore forearm? Or the elbow inflammation listed in the article I provided? Maybe Zambrano taught Prior about internet chat rooms?

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 17, 2006 -> 01:40 PM) I just looked at a list. Those two he listed WERE probably the best examples. Amani Toomer, Tai Streets, David Terrell, Anthony Carter? Not much to choose from Anthony Carter, Desmond Howard, Amani Toomer, David Terrell, Derrick Alexander, Tai Streets, Braylon Edwards, Jim Smith, Marquise Walker, Craig McMurtry, Glen Doughty and Chris Calloway is a better list. Heres how to make an argument Josh. When someone questions the quality of players from your school. You dont list a career return man and a rookie as successful players. You list Amani Toomer who was drafted in the 2nd round and has the same amount of years in the NFL as Howard (10) and has almost 8000 yards receiving and 44 td's. That would be a good example. s*** Tai streets has been in the NFL half the time Howard was and already has eclipsed his numbers. Thats the lesson for today.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jan 17, 2006 -> 01:34 PM) Howard probably wasn't the best example because he was more of a Return man however Braylon probably would be ROY if he hadn't gotten hurt. So...basically you didnt have any examples of picks not being busts? And to project Edwards as ROTY is a pretty big stretch, almost as big as Mike Hart as a Heisman Candidate. Edwards had 512 yards and 3 td's after 10 games. He never won the Rookie of the week honors. Caddilac Williams finished with 1178 rushing yards 6 td's 3 rookie of the week honors in 14 games. Still think edwards would have won?

I'll wait for Josh's post before I list his favorite schools receivers.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 17, 2006 -> 01:30 PM) LOL, i was wondering why he didnt mention Tim Brown. But when you have the honorable Desmond Howard and Braylon Edwards at your arguments disposal, you just have to use them. It would be fun to have a game where he says the name of a Michigan player who succeeded and we respond with the name of a player who succeeded in being a bust. LOL, I will start, Tim(Tshiminga!) Biakabatuka. Tim Brown went to Notre Dame.