RockRaines

QUOTE(scotty22hotty @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 12:57 PM) BMAC+ Marte for Burnett & Lowell + Cash seems a little lopsided. I think Jenks will we thrown in also. No he wont, I dont think they would throw Jenks in on any deal. He is too rare a find.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 12:55 PM) What happens if Lowell actually turns it around this year or next...this would be a huge pick up...I remember when Ensberg struggled everyone said he sucked and then he turned it around and same way with Chavez...man so many people talking about how Chavez sucks... btw how is he doing today?? Dont even get me started on the Chavez thing. I would like to go back to that thread and see who all was saying he was done, mentioning roids..nobody around him to hit...etc etc. Chavez is, and will always be god. Lowell could at least give Joe a break as well as Kong too. He would be a nice addition.

Didnt know Lowell was still in the deal......Marte BMAC for AJ and Lowell, I think I would stand behind that deal in a second.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 12:41 PM) If we do trade Marte/ McCarthy for Burnett- who takes Damaso's spot in the pen then? El-duque? Then we will only have 1 solid lefty out of the pen in Cotts. Unless they send Jenks back down and make a trade for a subpar lefty-reliever like an Affeldt. Hey what is Schoenwiese up to? Lol just kidding. If we send El Duque or JC to the pen, that would push Luis out of the long relief role to more of a set up middle innings guy. Correct me if im wrong, isnt he better against LH batters anyway. Thats the only thought process on needing a lefty, if having someone to get lefties out. I think he could do the job.

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 12:17 PM) well if you thought Koch made things interesting than you would be in heart attack central with Contreras as your closer. Wow, night and day arms on those two pitchers. Comparing their stuff is not even close.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 12:04 PM) I also think Jenks is going to become a pitcher to be counted on in the coming months. Agreed. If Jenks can throw strikes, he will be as dominant if not more than any reliever in the game.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:58 AM) I hardly doubt it, but ok. Didnt you hear, Jeremey Reed is untouchable, SO is Brendan McCarthy

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:44 AM) it would be amazing if they could do both, but philly i think has said that the only way they will deal wagner is if they get a pitcher like burnett in return. maybe they would accept a deal with contreras instead, along with ohter parts, but i dont think KW wants to dismantle the current roster THAt much, and i dont think philly would do that anyways My sentiments exactly. If KW could spin BMAC and Marte into Burnett and Wagner, I would definatley feel much better about our chances. As it is, I think a mid level prospect will be able to get Villone from Seattle if need be. IN the last 3 years LH bats are hitting .231 with .317 OBP and only 84 hits in 364 ab's 34 BB's Marte's are better largely because of his 2002 season. But this year the numbers arent there.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:39 AM) Stupidest comment in that article is that we would even consider trading Contreras to the Bosox. Nothing like sending a power arm to the team you will most likley have to beat in the playoffs. Do these reporters even think at times. Maybe we would send JC and Jenks to Boston for Mike Myers?????

Insider Will A.J. stay or go? Jul 25 - With A.J. Burnett producing another dominant start and the Marlins playing better baseball, they are weighing whether or not to trade Burnett by Sunday's deadline, Peter Gammons reports. "We don't have to trade A.J. If we can make ourselves better in 2005 and for the future, we'll listen," said Marlins GM Larry Beinfest. The White Sox and the Red Sox appear to be the two top suitors for Burnett. The White Sox would reportedly be willing to part with reliever Damaso Marte and rookie Brandon McCarthy, while the Red Sox are dangling Bronson Arroyo, with the possibility they could also include hot prospect Anibal Sanchez, Gammons reports.

QUOTE(sircaffey @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:32 AM) When the Phillies say Wagner isn't available, I'm more inclined to believe that means that they won't trade him as a white flag trade. If the Sox got Burnett, why wouldn't Philly be interested in a Burnett/Wagner swap? They have Urbina to close and adding a SP like Burnett would fit a lot better for them. It's entirely possible that a Burnett/Wagner swap could happen. How about JC for Wagner? It still improves their rotation either way. I would rather hold on to AJ and put JC in the pen. And then pick up Villone to solidify the rest of the pen.

QUOTE(thelatinoheat_30 @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:22 AM) i dunno if burnett is worth mac and marte, just cause of his injuries and his .500 lifetime record. if you gotta trade contreras too, that's way too much to give up for an unknown. BMAC is an unknown and Marte is a declining bullpen arm. I think he is the worst arm in the whole pen. I dont see how that is getting ripped off.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:11 AM) Not to even mention, USCF is hardly a pitcher's paradise. The only thing that is going to save us here is Ozzie, and our clubhouse atmosphere. Whether anyone likes it or not, the Red Sox arent the same team they were last year in terms of their clubhouse character. They have become the main event, the corp love children. And we can still be the f-ups who go out and win under the radar.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 11:03 AM) Everything I hear is that Burnett wants to go somewhere that isn't Chicago. f*** him. Well, if you were to choose between the two, which one would you pick. I think I'd pick the defending world champs who sell out even on the road.

Cotts has right stuff Sox left-hander's emergence makes Marte expendable July 25, 2005 Johnny Damon knew he'd faced Neal Cotts before Saturday but mostly because the research told him so. "I'd faced him three times before," Damon said. "That's what the numbers showed, anyway." Damon will be better prepared the next time he sees Cotts—most likely when the White Sox travel to Fenway Park in three weeks. The 25-year-old left-hander struck out Damon on three pitches Saturday night and then got him out again in the sixth inning on Sunday, this time with the White Sox clinging to a 5-3 lead against the Boston Red Sox. Moments like that one, when Cotts just about blew a 90-m.p.h. fastball past Damon, are why the White Sox are willing to consider sending veteran lefty Damaso Marte to Florida in the trade for A.J. Burnett that is on the table. "His fastball just seems to get up on you," said Damon, who flied out to Scott Podsednik to leave two runners on in the sixth. "He's got nice 'short-arm' action. That's what makes it tough on us. … It seems like he's having a good year against everyone." Ozzie Guillen, the White Sox manager, says Cotts and right-handed setup man Cliff Politte are his most underrated players. They have become his most used pitchers, with Cotts working in eight of the last 10 and Politte working in six of the last eight. "I guess it's like growing up," said Cotts, who has cut his earned-run average to 2.36 from 5.65 last season. "You take your lumps and keep coming at them. You have to learn from 'em. The kind of a year I had last year, you either learn from the lumps or you aren't going to stick around." Sticking around in the big leagues is never easy. It's possible that Jose Contreras, the Cuban who weathered 100-degree heat to be the winning pitcher in Sunday's 6-4 victory, won't still be with the White Sox when they return from the upcoming trip to Kansas City and Baltimore. The Sox might have to send Contreras, Marte and pitching prospect Brandon McCarthy to Florida to get Burnett, who raised his stock by holding San Francisco to one unearned run in 71/3 innings Sunday. That's a huge price to pay for a guy with a 44-44 career record. It reflects the magnitude of this potential deal. But the possibility of landing the biggest impact player on the market—this year's Carlos Beltran—hasn't gotten into the White Sox's collective head. Despite all the talk about Burnett, Guillen and his players remained focused on the team in the other dugout. As a result, and with much credit going to Contreras, they gained a split of the four-game series with Boston. Contreras, the holder of a 13.50 ERA in six previous starts against Boston, pitched awfully well for a guy who wouldn't figure in a four-man playoff rotation including Burnett. Orlando Hernandez, who could be reduced to a playoff long man by a Burnett trade, had done the same thing in a 3-0 loss Saturday night. Even if Contreras isn't in a Burnett deal, he could be dealt somewhere (maybe even Boston) in a subsequent deal. He's won three of his last four starts and worked at least five innings in 15 of his last 16 starts. Those guys don't grown on trees. Ditto tough left-handed relievers. In Marte and Cotts, the White Sox are one of the few teams that have two of them. The Marlins have none. That's why these teams fit so well in trade talks. With an 111/2-game lead in the American League Central, the Sox can look ahead to October. Florida, only 41/2 games back in the bunched National League East, is trying to get more than a draft pick for Burnett (a potential free agent) without waving a white flag. An absolute animal in 2002 and '03, Marte hasn't been as tough the last two seasons. Guillen wanted him to get the save on Sunday but had to summon Dustin Hermanson after Marte walked two of the first three he faced in the ninth inning. If this was a showcase, it didn't go as the White Sox hoped. The wonder is Florida isn't insisting on Cotts, who has been throwing zeroes since the All-Star break. He is thriving on the heavy workload (thus far, anyway), holding opponents to four hits in 71/3 scoreless innings in his last eight outings. Oakland and the Cubs (on a Jason Dubois homer) are the only teams that have scored on him in his 24 outings in June and July. In addition to the sneaky-quick fastball, the key to his success has been a pitch he didn't start working on until the spring of 2004. "The cutter, or slider, whatever you want to call it, is better this year," Cotts said. "I was just learning it last year." That pitch should be familiar to White Sox opponents. It's the one that helped turn Mark Buehrle into one of the AL's top starters. Buehrle and pitching coach Don Cooper have tried teaching it to other left-handers, giving them another pitch to neutralize right-handed hitters, and Cotts has listened well. The changeup that was his second pitch in the minors has become his third option. Buehrle, a midseason promotion in 2000, established himself as a reliever on a playoff team. Cotts is doing the same thing, possibly even with better pure stuff than Buehrle. It's not a reach to picture him as a member of the starting rotation down the road, provided general manager Ken Williams doesn't just keep importing experienced starters. "You get in trouble if you start looking at the future," Cotts said. "I'm just going to look at what's going on right now, starting with getting to the airport safely. You can't go wrong with that approach."

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 10:56 AM) Are you insane? Do you have any idea where these two guys have ranked NPERA wise over the past 4 yrs? Buerhle is near the top 10 & Burnett? He's not even in the top 30! Buerhle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Burnett. What Buerhle lacks in speed he more than makes up for with control & change of speed greatness. He's a LH version of Maddux at his prime. Burnett? He's a .500 pitcher who reminds me more of Alex Fernandez than BlackJack McDowell. I personally would not do this deal unless we are spinning it to Philly to get a stud like Wagner. It doesn't take that much intelligence in the game to know that the AL will fear Wagner a helluva a lot more than the erratic Burnett. Nobody said that Burnett is better than MB, so relax. PLus you are debating a players who has lead the league in innings vs a player who has been injured most of the last few years, of course the stats are going to support your argument. Wagner isnt available so we can put that one to bed anyway.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 10:27 PM) I'd rather see Marte in a close game than Vizcaino. And I'm not a big fan of Marte. Disagree again, Marte walks too many people, and has serious control lapses. Look no further than last year against the cubs when he walked the winning run in. If Gas-caino didnt have the huge blowup against the Indians when he was over extended, he would look better to you.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 25, 2005 -> 10:48 AM) He was available to another team for hardly anything. I forgot the specifics. I think he is arbitration eligible still next season, so the Sox could simply non-tender him at the end of the year if their is financial restraints. Texas is going to waive the white flag here soon, and probably would accept some pitching prospects for him. I dont want to completely exhaust our pitching prospects, but it would take no less than Tracy to get Soriano. On a side note. My buddy who works for the sox usually knows alot about the goings on in the office, and he wont tell me any s*** that they have been saying. But the mood around there seems to be that we feeling good about the changes that will happen. All heresay of course.

Red Sox fans in chicago=Cubs fans in 2003 nuff said.

At this point, I just want something to happen, PLease!!!!! Just trade something, f***, get us a different massage table, just make some sort of a move!!!

My buddy works for the sox, and mentioned that there was alot of activity going on there in the last few days. These are the names that I was given as discussed in the offices. A.J. Burnett Billy Wagner Jason Schmidt Alfonso Soriano

QUOTE(Brian @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 09:26 PM) I think people are talking like that because Konerko maybe gone next year and Dye said earlier in the season that he may need to switch to 1B soon and is no longer an OF. He said that around the time he played a game at 1st for Konerko, and made a few nifty plays if I remember. But nothing like that will happen until next year. Apparently you all forgot that Ross Gload would then be our regular 1B. Not Dye. If you all want overrated Griffey on your team, say good bye to A-row or Dye in the lineup, thats it. If he DH'ed that may be better than Carla at this point, but thats the only great option.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 10:18 AM) Marte and BMac are too high a price to pay for Burnett, even if he does re-sign. Contreras and Bajenaru is still better than Boston will offer. Throw in Diaz or Munoz to get it done. Disagree. Marte isnt what he was 2 or 3 years ago, and is the LEAST dependable arm out of the bullpen. Yeah thats right, I said it, I think he is the least valuable arm out of the bullpen. So you are trading an unproven prospect, and the last arm in your pen, for a Major League starter, who has many quality starts. I dont think we are getting ripped off there. PLus........If we add Vilone, our pen got better too.

AJ burnett would be a good addition, and I think we can spin JC or L DUque off for another reliever.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 24, 2005 -> 07:00 PM) Based on the fact that, uhh, he's had prolonged success above the SAL league, maybe? Jesus H, I'm a Gio fan as much as anyone, but he hasn't even pitched 25 innings at high-A, and he's getting comparisons to Pedro? GMAFB. McCarthy has been, essentially, a two-pitch pitcher this year. Or that's what I'm hearing -- that he's basically only throwing a curve and a fastball. His success last year -- again, based upon what I heard/was told -- was based upon the fact that he could throw a fastball, a curveball, or a changeup in any count, that's how confident he was. Clearly, he's lost a little bit of confidence. Yet, he's still got a filthy K/9 rate, and is doing a decent job with keeping the BB's down, though not as good as last year. I doubt you'll find many organizations whose best pitching prospect has pitched only 25 innings above low-A. wow, get back on topic. BMAC is in his first year above AA, lets see what he does in a full year to see if he has "prolonged" succes