RockRaines

harping on moneyball now

anyone who thinks he wouldnt fit in on this team is crazy.

wow, he calls his team terrible.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 01:27 PM) I'd rather include Andersen or Sweeney in a Chavez trade than McCarthy. Outfield is the easiest position in baseball to fill. Far as Kong, I want him nowhere near this club next year. I'm not aware of any 1B on the market so I couldn't tell you any alternatives-besides Gload. Don't count on Rogowski being our 1b alternative. It may be easy to pick up a 1B and a pitcher, but it's even easier to pick up a 1B and an outfielder. You have this same lineup next year with Gload inplace of Konerko, Thomas DH'ing, and Randa at 3B, I'll bet it doesn't have as many problems scoring runs as this season. BUt its not as good as Gload Thomas and Chavez

QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 01:19 PM) i know i am just going to get slaughtered for posing this question, but why is everyone in love with a guy with numbers worse than paul konerko's? chavez has been putrid this season. are you all basing it on his track record? if so, why no love for paulie here when he's in the same exact boat as chavez? to me, this is a grass-is-greener situation. i'd rather have crede. now, fire away!! actually he is not in the same boat, Chavez has better career numbers, has a left handed bat, can hit to all fields, do not clog the bases and can steal, and is a 4 time gold glover in a much needed defensive position on a winning team.

hes on next, lets get some rumors going!!!!!!

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 01:12 PM) I doubt they would say anything in the preliminary stages of a negotiation, if there were anything to it. Kenny doesn't like ANY info to get out, so you know no one from the Sox is saying anything. And judging by the shock of some of his deals this winter, Billy Beane seems to operate in the same manner. thats what makes me think this is just a smoke screen to make people think that BMAC is available so that KW can field some calls of what people are offering.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 01:05 PM) McCarthy injurs himself or fails to improve, at worst, he's another bust prospect. Available money is spent on a stop-gap starter. Chavez injurs himself or fails to perform, which we've seen this year is a possibility, we're left with 30 million dollars. This trade isn't just 'McCathy's 2007 potential' vs. 'Chavez' 2005-2009 numbers.' A lot of money is riding on Chavez. I'd rather trade for Randa and forsake up less of our future. I Run up the figures for 2007. Podsednik won't come cheap anymore, Dye will be gone, Thomas might be gone, AJ will either be gone or command a higher salary. I'm sure there are numerous other players due substantial raises as well. If the payroll continues to increase, as it has these last few seasons, we're in good shape. Dye is gone but Anderon or Sweeney is in his place-saving money, signing Spods. Aj may be gone, but 2 years from now im sure something will be in his place, if not, maybe we tie him up in a contact this year through that year. Contreas;s high salary will be gone, and we have several prospect that may be able to take his spot. If not there will be more payroll flexibility with his salary to get a starter to fill in. All you are really losing in our young rotation is El Duque for sure, which KW could fill in with our next great phenom or a free agent with that money. 1B will not be kong cause his money would be tied up in Chavez, so you would have Rogo or Gload playing that position. Would you rather have the money tied up in a young all-star 3B or Kong at 1B with more holes that you can imagine with crede gone, and Dye gone etc. Its easier to pick up a pitcher and a 1B than a pitcher and an all star 3B IMO.

another thread on this?? go see the massive one.

QUOTE(marsh @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:40 PM) The guy is a walking calamity. He gives injury prone a whole new meaning. see: Juan Gonzalez

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:46 PM) Anyone know Dan Patrick's email addy? actually they are talking about how they tried to trade for Larry Walker, and how he didnt want to come there.

he said in the next hour

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:28 PM) If the Cubs were completely healthy, they would be a better team than the Sox. Discuss.

im listening

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:33 PM) If Borowski returns to being good, Remlinger comes back, Prior and Wood get healthy, and Williamson gets healthy, that is not true. Once their starters get healthy (if they do), it trickles down to the BP. Starters Wood Prior Zambrano Maddux Rusch BP Remlinger Borowski Dempster Scott Williamson Wood-never won 15 games Prior-never healthy Zambrano, pitching like last year was over his head Maddux-done Rusch-horrible As for their lineup-they have the most unbalance and incomplete lineup in their division. No lead-off hitter, terrible fundamentals, cant even bunt. Their coaching is horrendous, their defense is below average, should I say more.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:27 PM) I may insult Beane regularily, but honestly, I'm worried whenever his name is mentioned in trade discussions. If the trade package you mention above is approved, you wonder what Beane notices in Crede's plate approach which may be corrected. Sure, the long-loopy undercut chop is often cited, but why would Beane accept Crede unless there's the possibility of improvement. With all his popups, it won't exactly be paradise in Oakland's large foul grounds. And McCarthy? That's a huge mistake right there. At this juncture, I wouldn't trade him for anyone short of a legitimate ace. It would be beneficial to have a cheap starter fill in for a roster spot. Whether he's the savior or not for this organization, even at his current pitching potential, McCarthy will provide us with a dirt-cheap 4th/5th starter. With the numerous starter spots open for 2007, his price will be well appreciated when money is used to fill other roster positions. So you wouldnt trade for Chavez because of the future possibility of having a cheap 5th starter in 2007???? So you are willing to not make THIS team the best it can be because of the future possibility of needing another pitcher....As for me, I think the time is now, this is the best start I have ever seen, and the best we may ever see. I know KW feels the same way about this that I do, I want the title now!! And even if you dont feel that way, the Chavez trade will pay off for us in the next few years anyway especially with the stockpiling of arms we have in our system. If you are so worried about 2007, that would be two years from now, thats exactly the amount of time it look BMAC to come up through the ranks, who says that Gio or Ray wont as well. As for fixing Crede's swing---uh unless Beane has a magic wand up his ass, nothing is going to work.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 12:05 PM) Not yet...I am looking for more gratuitous Chihuahua photos.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:46 AM) Ahhh, DA, I used that one here about two months ago. Fo drizzle. And officially this thread is ova!!!!! congrats to all :finger

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:37 AM) :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead The Sox have $8.75 million to pay Konerko this season. I have already said that I don't want Konerko back next year. Are Chavez's numbers more impressive than Konerko's to warrant him to be paid $3-4 million more than Konerko for the next three years? I certainly don't think so. Konerko will make more money in the FA market than Chavez's contract. Take a look at what the power hitting 1B got this year. Look at what Beltre and Glaus signed for in the offseason. I think Chavez's contract is almost a bargain, if not totally respectable for us. And yes, Chavez's hitting is better than Konerko's so on that alone, yes he deserves more money, if you add in his 4 gold gloves at 3B. yes he is worth more. So for your answer, yes, Chavez is worth that much.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:18 AM) Why would you pitch to Frank. He is a future HOF and hits to all fields. Behind him you have a guy who hasnt seen a pitch he doesnt like. Pulls the ball only. Tomahawks the ball at his head. And spins like a top. also should not have been hittingin that situation, Gooch should have had a bat in his hands immediatley.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:32 AM) Maybe KW needs to get BB very very drunk and take advantage of him... hehe once again, maybe some Pabst and xanax

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:31 AM) I think most people around here think it would be one of Anderson or Bmac and another prospect in the top ten. One position player, one pitcher + Crede. For a guy of Chavez's caliber, locked up for four more years, top talent would need to be traded. Also, Chavez would be a good long term fit to go along with the sox young guys--Rowand, Uribe, and guys who may stay on a few more yrs--Pods, AJ, Iguchi. Chavez wouldn't just be a short term fix but part of the sox long term plans as well Agreed totally. Even if it takes one of our premier OF's in the minors, we know that there is going to be only one available spot for them anyway, either Anderson or Sweeney is going to make it up, the other will be stuck behind Rowand and SPODS, both of them we wont get rid of. So whatever it takes to get this done, I am behind it, not only for this year, but for the future as well, considering we have jack s*** for 3B prospects right now (fields doesnt have the numbers Crede did and isnt a good fielder) this would fit our system.

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:21 AM) He is tryin to get ya drunk so he can take advantage of ya... ummm errrr I mean you will be loose and more plyable yeah yeah thats it.... i was goin for flexible.......

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:26 AM) Our BA is bad against righties because most of them throw our righties away and they are incapable of not pulling the outside pitch. So replacing Crede's Rh bat, his only pull hitting, and replacing it with a better fielding 3B who can hit to all fields, not clog the bases hit for a better avg, OBP, SLG OPS, and better power numbers is the option, sounds good to me.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 2, 2005 -> 11:21 AM) I know everyone loves Chavez because he has a great glove and has had a good stick. But where this season has he done a damn thing to warrant giving up our best prospects. What has Barry Bonds done this season to warrant a HOF consideration, come on man, its more than just 2 months of baseball that proves worth. Second, adding a 4 time gold glover and all-star 3B for an unproven pitching prospect makes alot of sense, thanks though.