RockRaines

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) Have you looked at Konerko and Chavez's numbers this year? Thus far this year, Crede is outperforming Chavez. This year is over already? Career numbers speak for themselves, thanks...plus putting crede and Chavez in the same sentence is just ridiculous.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:57 PM) The Yankees are paying Arod $18 million, the Rangers are paying the other $7 mil. Pujols hasn't hit his free agency years which is why his contract looks so small, once he gets past his sixth year of service, you can bet his contract starts to hit the mid teens per year. Didnt Chavez's overpaid ass win something?? OH yeah 2001 - AL Gold Glove Award Winner (3B).(August 30)....2002 - AL Silver Slugger Award Winner (3B)....AL Gold Glove Award Winner (3B)....2003 - AL Gold Glove Award Winner (3B)....2004 - AL Gold Glove Award Winner (3

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:55 PM) If Billy Beane wants to trade Chavez during the 2005 season, it will be at a diminished value. Most of the large payroll teams that are contending already have a good 3B. The teams that could use an upgrade there, such as the Dodgers or White Sox, have a somewhat limited payroll. If Oakland wants to move Chavez to either, they will either need to do so with cash considerations or fewer or lesser prospects, especially when other starting/utility quality 3B such as Polanco or Mackowiak could be had for less. The exception may be the Angels, but I'm not sure how likely Oakland is to trade within the division and how dedicated they are to Dallas McPherson for this season. Thus, it seems that Chavez won't be moved until the 2005-2006 offseason at the earliest. I fully expect Beane to make several moves during the season, Zito and Dotel will be moved before the deadline. Im not sure what would stop him from dealing Chavez as well.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:50 PM) I will really be mad if we got Chavez's overpaid ass and traded BMac for him. Do any of you focking realize Chavez is making money equivalent to what New York is paying ARod (since Rangers are paying a lot of ARod's salary still) and what St Louis is paying Pujols? Why the fock would a team like ours that is fiscally constrained want to trade for such a ridiculous contract when the guy under question is focking sucking this year? Do you all realize Beane is under more pressure to improve his team than Kenny is? So play the leverage game and fock Beane when you can. What of Beane knows Chavez was on the juice previously and hence is dying to let him go to a sucker soon? It is possible that Chavez could have been influenced by Giambi (team mates always pick up stuff from other team mates) When has Chavez's overpaid ass EVER won anything? Yes, you buy low, sell high. But not if that guy will be the highest paid player on your team. If we are willing to pay that ridiculous contract that Chavez is signed to, we should instead have traded Paulie in the off season and signed Delgado instead. A far better player that would be a monster in our home park. do you realize that we are paying Pauly the same amount as Chavez??????? With less help defensively and on the basepaths, while Chavez is more productive at the plate???

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) For chavez who is only 27 and a four time gold glover? You better believe it would cost that much. I certainly don't think he should considering his contract but it will. Then you have to do it, this is the team and the year, and we cant keep preparing for the future. Look at it this way, you could give him Fields and BMAC, theres 2 of our most promising prospects, one of which is major league ready, and he gets the money off the books. In a perfect world thats all it would take, but we both know better. If it take two or three Prospects, you still have to do it, because who knows if they will even pan out, while you know chavez has.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:47 PM) For chavez who is only 27 and a four time gold glover? You better believe it would cost that much. I certainly don't think he should considering his contract but it will. Then you have to do it, this is the team and the year, and we cant keep preparing for the future. Look at it this way, you could give him Fields and BMAC, theres 2 of our most promising prospects, one of which is major league ready, and he gets the money off the books. In a heart beat.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:43 PM) It won't just be mccarthy it would also be one of sweeney/gio/ anderson. I dont know if I would want to part with Gio or Anderson, sweeney would be tough to let go as well, but if we must, we must. All im saying is that if he wants to free up payroll, I dont see it taking 2 top tier prospects, but if we have to do it, then we have to.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:35 PM) Crap heap...that's a good one...I'll add it to my list of names for Wrigley...and Lincoln Park is still too close. Stickney is the place to be hahaha, its actually a good neighborhood, alot of girls are easy on the eyes as well. Nice area to walk around though, and every day more and more sox hats show up, nice to see. We have a huge sox flag on our balcony, and nobody has said anything about it.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:38 PM) 8.75, my bad so do you try to pull a deadline deal or just let him walk? You better believe he is going to make more than that in his next contract too.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:31 PM) What i get from this is nearly everyone is willing to mortage the future because they are positive chavez is just in a ''slump'' and has nothing to do with steroids. Now i consider all prospects supects until they perform at the major league level. No one player in the minors is a sure thing to be good in the major leagues. But you have to figure out of the package we would be sending the a's ( two of arguably our best three prospects along with another decent prospect) that one of them would pan out in the near future. If we traded mccarthy in any deal who is our sixth starter? Jon adkins? Neal cotts? Chances are we will not make it through the next two years without a starter going on the dl for a decent amount of time? I wouldnt say its mortgaging the future. BMAC came up for what, 2 starts? How did he do in both of them?? Im not saying he isnt good, he is one of my favorite players, but he may factor as being a third starter or so, or maybe not. The future, right now, means nothing to me, because this is the best team i have seen since '94. I think you trade the whole damn farm if it means going deep into the playoffs and possibly winning it. If that means getting rid of BMAC, so be it. Its not like we dont have some arms behind him. We have some players that could spot start, as well as several prospects that are starting to look extremely good. BMAC came out of nowhere in a hurry, who says someone else cant do that next year? Fact is, if you have a chance to trade a not so certain player, for a all-star caliber player, you do it, hands down, no thought process.

Byrd scares me....................

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:29 PM) It is not alright to live up there ...I refuse to even go to the Wrigleyville neighborhood. Not wrigleyville, its Lincoln park, im south enough to be away from that crap heap.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) Obviously no one would have those numbers. I may be going on a limb here, but I feel Frank would have still been the best hitter in that era. I don't think many guys out there were 6'5 250. Frank would have been a beast back then. Frank would have mashed back then, drawn walks, killed balls, and then scared most of the players on other teams. He is a BEAST. How soon we forget his season of hitting 353, damn!!!!!

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:21 PM) When has he ever carried the team?... in 2003 he totally sucked.. in 2004 He helped but Carlos Lee and Rowand were better offensively and he is hitting like .223 this year... the reason for the RBI's is because Iguchi and Pods have been so dynamite leading off not because he has been good. Pauly has never carried the team, and like I said he seems like a nice guy but he isnt nice enough to pay him 10 million. Borchard works hard too should he be a starter for us too? Not to mention that his DP's base-clogging and only hitting solo shots never really helps either. This team is taking a turn, and he does not fit in the plans, I love the guy but he has to go!!!

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:14 PM) Konerko is finishing up his contract at $8.75 million, and has batted over .288 (Chavez's best season) 3 times. I don't want Konerko back next year, and I don't want Chavez's overpaid ass for the next three years either. I thought you were making a point with OPS??? That didnt work, now its BA?? Chavez has a better OPS, and OBP and brings more to the team defensively for the same amount of money, whats not to like?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:14 PM) Thus far this season, Chavez has put up worse numbers than Crede for a hell of a lot more money. If Chavez proves to me that he can come back from this terrible start (which he hasn't done yet), then I'll shut my mouth and not complain even if McCarthy becomes trade bait. But I cannot understand the logic of trading for a guy who looks like he has jumped off of a cliff and who is being paid $10 mil a year to do it. We'll pay the same price for him whether or not he turns it around, because of his career numbers. I say wait and see if he has a good June. If he does not, then that means he will have had 3 straight months of being a $10 million Joe Crede. Would you trade for that? If you think for a second, that a guy with his career numbers would regress at age 28 to what Joe Crede has done, think again. Chavez is usually a slow starter in the first few months of the season. 3-year splits April .256 .355 .534 .889 May .257 .340 .459 .799 June .274 .338 .543 .881 July .297 .389 .506 .895 August .310 .393 .596 .989 Sept .264 .352 .418 .770 his BA flutuates a bit, but his power numbers, OBP stay close to the same. I would say a change to our lineup on this team in this stadium is exactly what the doctor ordered, not to mention he is an improvement defensively and adds a left handed bat.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) I wouldn't consider trading for Chavez until he shows some more power this season. In today's steroid testing environment, his slugging percentage is one of the most shocking statistic.......was he on the juice? I think it was a couple of people around him that were on the juice, buts its possible...of course it could be the worst hitting lineup around him that could also be a part of it.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:09 PM) Chavez has a higher career OBP and SLG than Konerko's. I would also value Chavez' defense and speed more than Paulie's. I would rather spend $10 million on Chavez than $10 million on Konerko. In an instant, and you better believe that Pauly's new contact is going to be right there along with what Chavez will be making, especially considering that they are making THE SAME AMOUNT this year.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:07 PM) I've made this post at least a dozen times, and even shown the stats, HE HAS NEVER HAD AN OPS OF .900 IN A SEASON YET HE GETS PAID LIKE A SLUGGER. see: Paul Konerko

QUOTE(shagar69 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:06 PM) no way in hell rangers trade blalock, IIRC hes signed for a few years at a very cheap price. that being said, if they for some reason do decide to shop him, i would in a second give up Bmac, Anderson, Crede and pretty much whomever else they wanted, lol. Blalock is just an awesome player and young as hell, less than 25 i think. 24 Born Nov 21 1980, he is the man.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:04 PM) Yes, I'd be willing to bet he'd improve here also. But I would not be willing to bet Brandon McCarthy that he'll turn around. Why? Because Chavez is one of the best at his position and McCarthy has proven nothing at the major league level yet? When you get a chance to trade an unproven prospect for a all-star caliber player who would improve your team drastically, you do it hands down.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 01:03 PM) check out careers buddy. it says it all. plus hitting is contagious and his environment in Oakland just sucks right now. i'm betting its not much fun and players seem to do better when they're having fun (see Little Big League) thank you, i didnt even realize we were going to argue Chavez vs. Crede, come on.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 1, 2005 -> 12:57 PM) I personally like the Randa deal more, We wouldnt give up much for him some people think Crede has more value.... and he is fine defensively and knows the AL Central as well as anyone. Also it would allow us to either resign Konerko or get a big time player this off-season in either a trade or F/A. I think like someone said earlier Chavez is dodger bound if anywhere... They would prob take like Brazoban and that pitching prospect of theirs Edwin Jackons or whatevr his name is. Heres the thing, overall the Chavez trade benefits us more. With Randa you get an aging player who is injury prone and has a one-year deal. Re-signing Konerko then once again gives you a slow-footed expensive 1B and eats alot of payroll while you still have no real 3B. Chavez may cost more prospect-wise, but you gain an overal defensive improvement, better baserunning and OBP, have an all-star caliber 3B and actually may get better offensively.

Here is Konerko Hitting Konerko goes through painful contortions in the on-deck circle and sometimes looks wooden at the plate. Yet he gets solid plate coverage from a high-maintenance swing that requires constant work in the batting cage. He has good strike-zone judgment but sometimes lacks the bat speed to catch up with good fastballs, especially when they're in on his hands. Konerko hit 29 of his 41 homers at U.S. Cellular, which has become a bandbox since the fences were brought in after 2000. Baserunning & Defense There are no Gold Gloves in his trophy case, but Konerko has improved defensively at first base in recent seasons, particularly in scooping throws. He is capable of making the reaction catch on liners but overall lacks range. He is a base-clogger who struggles to go from first to third on most singles.

Here is the scouting report on Chavez, this sounds like a player that would fit into what we are trying to accomplish on this team. Hitting As natural a hitter as one will find, Chavez has good reactions and ever-improving strike-zone judgment, as his quantum leap in on-base percentage in 2004 reflects. He hits to all fields. In a season of statistical quirks for Oakland, Chavez hit 49 points higher against southpaws than righthanders last summer, but slugged 30 points higher versus righties. Over his career, Chavez has been a better performer with runners aboard or in scoring position, and a .340 hitter with the bases loaded. Baserunning & Defense Chavez has excellent speed and is a smart baserunner. He can steal a base and easily move from first to third when circumstances permit. Defensively, Chavez can pick the hot corner with the best of them. Watching him on a short hop, or turning a 360, zeroing in on first base and gunning a throw to retire a runner can be nothing short of breath-taking.