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I would blame him too. My point was it is not just his decision alone as implied by the post that he the dinosaur is the reason.

Pioneer probably was a poor choice of words. Early adopter? Early user?

Are the advanced scouts the same? Are the people in the analytics department the same? These decisions aren't made by one person without input from others.

I'm sure he had input. Just as I'm sure the other departments did too. I guess my comment should have been it's not LaRussa alone that made these decisions so to assume the dinosaur won't allow the shifts is erroneous.

I doubt any of this was determined by LaRussa. That's the advanced scouting and analytics department. Before you say he doesn't listen to any of that, he was one of the pioneers of it in St. Louis.

I agree. I think they should focus on a high OBP, good fielder type. They have plenty of power from others. Someone to hit at the bottom of the order and get back to anderson.

Greater frequency with less time and stress per outing. Tissue heals better with lower loads with greater frequency ie, people go to PT 3x/week with low loads.

Or. The injury changed their plan and they were worried about stressing the hamstring to much to avoid a Engel scenario. They waited until September 15th because they wanted more innings for an extended playoff run, which unfortunately didn't happen but they were planning on having him ready for it.

I disagree. The plan wasn't the mistake. I don't think predicting an injury to take away innings is a reasonable plan to start the year.

Dang, good post. I agree.

Possible. however, without knowing everything that was going on I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion. with his injury history that may be the best plan of care.

I would agree that the management after the injury was suspect. There seems to have been more going on to limit his innings that much after it. This is the problem with saying it was all mismanaged, we don't know everything that was going on. however, the overall plan from the beginning of the year as you were quoting was still a good plan derailed by the injury. This is why I keep pointing to the inury caused the issue not the mismangement of the plan for the year

That's fine. I happen to think that an injury is a reason to not pitch. It looks like you disagree that an injury is a good reason to not pitch or at least they should have predicted the injury and had him pitch more earlier in the year. I also changed my view of him being able to be a full time starter next year based on said injury. Unless you can say that you could predict the injury thus they should have had him pitch more earlier in the year, I don't see how it was mismanaged. He was on track to get a good number of innings in for the year.

Right if they planned on him being a full time starter. To get him close to those innings, he would have not been able to be injured and then been used in the playoffs to get close to those innings. As it stands, he didn't get to those innings and probably shouldn't be a full time starter. He should be a starter because his innings will need to be in the 150-160 range but will need some skipped starts or mange those innings somehow. The expectations for the 100 innings give or take changed with the injury. A based the workload on being a fulltime not skipping any starts, regular rotation starter. That obviously shouldn't happen, in my opinion due to the injury risk next year. Now if they are doing simulated games right now to increase those innings, it could change.

That's fine you can disagree. The injury not only took innings away from time missed but also from the time they needed to ramp him up. The stretching out issue is a choice they would have needed to make to finish up his innings. Do you 1. Stretch him out and complete all of his innings limit and not have him in the playoffs or 2. Continue to limit his innings in relief and complete his innings limit in the playoffs Thus, while the plan to get him to his innings limit didn't work. I think it was due to the injury and not a mismanagement of the plan.

Yep. I just don't see the big difference as he wasn't going to throw more than 10-20 more innings regardless of the minors or majors. Stretching him out at the end of the season would have made him unavailable for the post season, if he went over those innings. They could have done it but the injury ruined those plans. The minors vs. majors is a good discussion. I personally think the experience of learning how to get major leagues hitters out, outweighs the benefit of manipulating the innings in less stressful situations.

Yes. Probably too big. Unless as another poster suggested, they run him through some simulated games to add up the innings now.

Yep to each his own. I look at it differently. It was a good plan derailed by injury, unless they could have predicted the injury.

That's true. It's a good idea unless there was a lingering injury that effected his performance down the stretch and he needs it to recover.

I agree with all of this. However, I still disagree it was due to mismanagement this year. It was due to the injury and the innings it took away from his year. He currently should not be a full time, 180 innings pitcher next year. could it happen? sure, but it would be taking a big risk. They will need to skip starts or limit innings somehow next year.

2 and 3 are good reasons. After Hahn was allowed to do the rebuild they have made the playoffs in consecutive years. Unless the team takes a nosedive, I would find it hard to believe that a new ownership would have a problem with it.

Agreed. The pitchers did not look the same. The performance was very disappointing.

I'm still not sure this was the case. As others have pointed out many of the players still looked less explosive and slow during the playoffs. Was this the mentality of taking it easy or was it nagging injuries that they were hoping the rest would help but ultimately didn't Regardless the players didn't perform. There are many hypotheses as to why, all of which probably contributed to some extent.

The playoffs are still random in general. There are always some teams that go on extended runs. The Braves did something like 14 straight in the good years, the Yankees did too at times. But they also did not win the World Series in years where they were the best team. You don't need to feel great about losing to anyone but when you lose to the best team it tells you that the team may not be as far away as you think. The Sox aren't on tier with Houston but neither was Houston during their first couple of competitive years after the rebuild. The sox team will grow with maturity and experience.

I agree. Williams has always been a minor league, scouting, developing type of guy. With this team so young and locked up with longer term deals, he may decide its time.