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QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 03:39 PM) Any rotationtnat relegates Hansen to the pen... wow. That's what it is right now. Take his scenario but insert Q instead of Glasnow.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) That farm system would be absolutely locked and loaded to compete in the next few years Add in some other shrewd moves and/or free agent signings and you are looking at a playoff team if things go well 1) Rodon 2) Glasnow 3) Giolito 4) Kopech 5) Lopez Pen arm possibilities (or other starters): Burdi, Dunning, Stephens, Adams, Fulmer, Hansen, Clark, Cooper C- Collins (fingers crossed) 1B - Abreu and/or Bell 2B - Moncada and/or Newman SS - Anderson 3B - ? OF- Meadows OF- Basabe OF- Tilson? DH - ? As a Sox fan you can dream of a scenario like this... God forbid anyone else in our system pans out like Call, Fisher, Engel, Michalczewski, Schnurbusch, etc. you shouldn't count on all of them being good MLB players. Many of them will not.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) Agreed. With McCutchen, that lineup is still a really good lineup. Add a really good lineup to a really good rotation and they can be thinking of possibly winning the division or hosting a wild card game. I agree.The whole purpose of the trade would be to improve the team to make the playoffs. I don't see losing McCutchen and his replacement in one deal making sense for them even with improvement of the pitching with Q.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 01:56 PM) Yeah, still far less then he'd get on the open market. Very true. But that has no bearing as to why the pirates would want to acquire him now.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) This. The number of the people that don't understand Abreu's contract situation, especially after what he just agreed to for his 2017 salary, is staggering. Adding Abreu even at arb prices will increase the payroll especially when they have Bell really cheap already. under 1 mil

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) Abreu won't be expensive (relatively of course) until he's a free agent. Don't let the word arbitration scare you, he's not going to make much more than his original 6 year contract called for even he goes through arb 2 more times. I was using the pirates view of expensive. I think it would start to get pricey for them especially if they keep the team as is and add Q.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) Honestly I know Hahn doesn't want to "bundle" per se but I would be open to moving both Q + Abreu + MiGo to the pirates for a package like Glasnow/Meadows/Bell/Hayes/Diaz/Escobar/Hearn steamer projects 7.4 wins out of that trio Abreu - 2.1 Quintana - 4.2 Gonzalez - 1.1 and there is still upside with all three of them. Pirates would be adding about 20mil in salary for all three though. I don't think a pirates team that depends heavily on the farm system due to a limited budget is going to trade anyone for Abreu and Gonzalez. One will get expensive soon, then other can be found cheaply without giving any players up.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) I mean it's Colorado, so it works, right? Actually drove through South Park Colorado this summer on a college recruiting visit for my daughter.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) Rodon really improved his walk rate in 2016 (2.9 BB/9) vs. 2015 (4.6 BB/9). His 3.91 SIERA was 25th best of qualified MLB starting pitchers. I really think he takes the next step forward this year and breaks out Part of it is the slowly building up of innings. He couldn't just go from a college level of innings pitched to 200 in the MLB. He is on pace to go 190-200 this year as long as he doesn't walk too many and get pulled early in games.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 03:37 AM) To be fair Caulfield was responding to a post of mine where I said , "Meadows has to be the headliner. Not only that but I was thinking Q could require a bigger haul than Sale since he has 1 more year and is cheaper than Sale. Plus the Sale trade had the #1 prospect in baseball who cost the Red Sox around $64M which maybe Hahn took into consideration as far as valuations go." Throw in the fact that Pittsburgh as a small market team cannot compete with the free agent money and you kind of have them bent over the proverbial negotiation table . But still it's mostly the extra year of control and the cheaper contract. I hear what you're saying. I just don't think it will play out that way. I'll be shocked if the trade Q and the prospects are equal to or greater than the haul for Sale. However, it's not like I've never been wrong before, my wife and kids constantly remind me of that.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:44 PM) Looking at the month of September over the last two seasons, in '16 ERA 4.35 , in '15 ERA 4.34. Sale has been fading down the stretch which doesn't bode well heading into the playoffs. This is one of the reasons I had preferred to keep Q over Sale. I don't mean to kick anyone's puppy but if Sale continues fading in September, he may end up pitching more like David Price in the playoffs. That's true. however, he still has a better chance of getting the team there. It could be he just interest. Who knows maybe he would could turn it on in the playoffs. The White Sox never gave him the chance. Can you imagine the Red Sox fans if they make it to the playoffs but both Price and sale fall apart? I might pay to watch the fans explode.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 07:25 PM) 42 It is the answer to life, the universe and everything.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) Yep, seemed we had to deal with Mitchell, K.Walker, Micah Johnson and Thompson hype for nearly half a decade. I give Mitchell a pass due to the nasty injury. I feel for him and what his foot will be like when he gets to 50.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:25 PM) The "no first ballot" was my biggest beef. Anybody who wouldn't vote for Maddux or Ripen or Henderson should have their name stricken from anything involving baseball for all of history. Agreed. There just aren't words to describe how idiotic the concept is. Edit: I could see it if there was a limit on how many they could let in per year. Some players are more deserving than others.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 08:54 PM) The problem with Q is the same one that Nats/Rizzo have with Eaton. As Sox fans and with most of us aware of even the simplest metrics like WAR, we all know the values of Eaton and Q, and can articulate arguments why Q might be worth the same or even more (rather than the 95% often-quoted) than Chris Sale. HOWEVER, if that Eaton trade blows up for the Nationals or any future trade for Q, the respective fanbases will be even more enraged because at least Chris Sale's a known quantity to nearly every baseball fan...the old, well, Dombrowski really rolled the dice and "went for it" line of thinking. When you're trading the same packages or potentially better ones for "non-star" players that aren't going to draw fans by name recognition alone, it's a dicier game for GM's. Another good example would be Shelby Miller, who was acquired partially because of "attachment/sentimental" reasons by LaRussa. When those trades go bad, they get you fired. With all that said, there will be a ton of GM's interested in Q still because they know his true value, contract, everything...and that doesn't mean we have to lower our trade expectations because of everything I just highlighted. But it's an additional factor to consider. there is no scenario where this is true. The teams trading for Q want to make the playoffs. Sale is better than Q. sale has a better chance of getting the team to the playoffs and WS. The Sox will not get the same talent in return for Q that they did for Sale.

QUOTE (ozzfest @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) I don't think this is a genuine effort to rebuild. I believe they just got rid of the guys that management didnt get along with. The same thing happened with the Bulls. I don't know about that. They kept Rodman and Rose around a long time. Neither of them got along with management.

QUOTE (SpankyEaton @ Dec 2, 2016 -> 08:38 PM) I went to Another Round in Downers Grove today and met both Abbatacola and Bernstein. Bernstein is a short dude and is not that tough off the air like he is on the air, even though he still doesn't listen to you unless you interject. He didn't really want to address how to have a "good" call with him after I brought it up and probably prefers arguing with callers over the air. Abbatacola was a great guy, hope he gets Terry's spot. before he moved to the regular rotation he was hysterical. I remember one Saturday morning he did a show on which cartoon characters would make the best football team ie, Fred flintstone at qb, the kangaroo from sylvester and tweety at kicker... However, when he made the daytime rotation he just became an arrogant contrarian to make headlines and ratings. He really isn't that bad of a guy in person but he let's the "on air" persona get far too carried away,which is a shame.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) Eh. We spent years believing that position player were easier to get than pitchers. That has ended up being a gigantic bust. I don't think they are necessarily easier to get. I just think limiting their options on what talent to take back isn't a wise strategy when the Sox really don't have a a surplus of talent anywhere on the field. Granted they had better pitching than hitting but I wouldn't call it dominant.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 03:35 PM) We'll see what happens with this deal. I think they screwed themselves by forcing the issue with what they need back from a Q trade. No idea if that is a part of what is taking time to develop for these other deals or not. I do still think that they have spent too much time worrying about player rankings instead of organizational fit. I see your point but still disagree. They should treat it like a draft for the future, take the best players offered. They can figure the rest out later. edit: I hope they based it on their own evaluation NOT just the "expert" rankings. On that I agree.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) If you're focusing on SIERA, Carlos Rodon posted the 25th best SIERA in the majors leagues in 2016...very interesting I think it does a better job of isolating the pitcher from all other factors.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) I refuse to acknowledge the Hall of Fame anymore until they vote Bonds in. It's good to see that after the cleaning out of some of the old guard voters are starting to vote with common sense. Raines most definitely deserves to be in too. I disagree on the Bonds part but whole heartedly agree on the getting rid of the old guard. The whole "no first ballot" thing drove me crazy. He either is or isn't a HOF.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) FIP is a stat that takes team defense into account when evaluating a pitcher Quintana's career FIP of 3.47 is excellent He is certainly a top 20 mlb starting pitcher, no matter how you slice it If you're going with pitching stats I think SIERA is better. They are all still somewhat subjective but IMHO SIERA is the best at attempting to isolate a pitcher's performance.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Then he'd likely have another 24 no decision season or something like it and still have a metric s*** ton of value. Yeah, i think the only thing you need to worry about him is injury and with his history that's not much of a worry.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:14 PM) Nightengale tweeting that Raines is a virtual lock at this point. Congrats RockRaines! He deserves it. There were very few all around dynamic players like him.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) Impossible to know unless whitesoxdave or rabbit can fill us in. If bucket appears you can bet it is getting close as well.