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QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:18 PM) You think Kolek is an inadequate return? That would be highway robbery. Yeah, that could be a Doyle Alexander for john Smoltz type robbery.

QUOTE (soulfly @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) This whole thing is comical. If he didn't want to wear it, why not just cut up his own jersey and his alone? If he did cut up other jerseys, other than his own, it begs the question, where was everyone else when this happened? You're telling me there wasn't a single other player in the clubhouse when this happened? Seems silly that other guys were in there and just let that happen. If there were other guys on the team there, it should have ended with cutting his own jersey. End of story. This team sorely needs a real leader to stop things like this from happening in the first place. Starting pitchers are usually in the clubhouse earlier than most of the other players. Besides if he started freaking out and attacking the jersey's with a knife, would you get in the way?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) I don't agree with what Sale did, but this and the Drake LaRoche thing earlier this season shows how the clubhouse goes wild too often. Players like Eaton and Sale go unchecked for the most part. You can't have that. I don't care if they're deemed "leaders" and get to be more vocal. It's clear that Robin's been too nice and players just get to do whatever the hell they want. It shouldn't take the VP and General Manager to handle s*** like this. so they are attempted to check it now and it's wrong? Maybe they put too much confidence in Sale that he would control himself after the first couple of incidents. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing in any of these situations. It's sale's response to it that is the issue.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:08 PM) So you guys can't handle a top 5 pitcher who throws a temper tantrum a couple times per year? Need to trade him to show who's the boss? Depends on your version of temper tantrum. Screaming obscenities at your boss. Ok he didn't really do much. Attacking other people's property with a knife? If you're ok with that there are other issues involved.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 05:18 AM) Or maybe he thinks Sale is better than Quintana because Sale IS better than Quintana. Q is a vey good pitcher, but let's face it, Sale is better and that's nothing to hold against Q. There aren't many pitchers better than Sale. I doubt you'd find one GM that would give the same package for Q that they would for Sale. There's a reason for that. On this we do agree.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:43 AM) Ptact thinks Sale is better because he has more wins though. Hp could a 7-8 guy be anywhere near as good as a 14-3 guy, right? i do not. i think he is better and more valuable due to his "stuff" and talent. I do think wins are important in the overall scheme but not for individual trade value.

QUOTE (Baseball palace of world @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) Something else to think about. This promotion was also about honoring players like Steve Stone, Harold Baines, Britt Burns, Chet Lemon, Carlton Fisk, Lamar Hoyt, manager Tony LaRussa. Ed Farmer. All wore these uniforms. Chris Sale 100% at fault for his actions. I also take the view that Robin is at fault for creating an environment that allowed Sale to do this. Robin is the worst manager I can remember. Worse than Bevington. worse than Bevington is not correct. The is no environment in what Sale did is the appropriate response. Robin had no influence on this response. No one created an environment to allow for this response. An individual can be angry about something but no one should do what he did, ever.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:31 PM) The article states they pay $50 per day for food PLUS tip. Again, this seems so antiquated. Management pays players so they can pay management's other employees. "I'm going to pay you $200,000 per year. But *you* will pay the IT guy that supports you and the cleaning lady. The company isn't responsible for their salaries. And this is part of a multiple billion dollar organization?! The organization already pays the employees. The money from the players is for the food and tips, but it's not mandatory they do this. I'm not sure if the results are that there is no food for the sox players next time they come to town but the players are under no obligation to pay. There is usually a standing order or a player rep contacts the clubhouse manager to order the food the players want. it's just standard practice.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:08 PM) I promise you...had no player cut up theirs or other people's uniforms, no one would be saying Robin was wrong and should have had his players deliberately damage their equipment. Correct. It's on sale and sale alone.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:09 AM) When you're a lame duck like Robin, you allow players to do it. Really shows how Robin isn't in control of the clubhouse whatsoever. It doesn't really matter. A 20 something year old man shouldn't act like that. There is nothing management should need to do to keep someone from acting like this. It is on him and him alone. He can be mad about it but no one should ever act like this.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 12:02 PM) I'm not certain it is arbitrary. It may have been about the amount of the food invoices. It seems like an antiquated system that needs an overhaul. I wonder if the laundry works the same way? Do the players pay someone to do wash their uniforms? And what about this angle? I finish dinner at a restaurant and ask the waitress about her pay. I don't like the answer so I refuse to pay my bill. The laundry falls under the entire same system. The scenario is a little different. It's against the law to not pay the waitress. The players to not have to pay here. The players do it to give big tips to the clubbies while understanding that a portion goes to paying for the food. In this case the players tipped the clubbies directly instead of giving it to the clubhouse manager to distribute. It's just a pain to have to find them individually.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:34 AM) I'd prefer to keep him. We need pitching. They can't trade all fo the pitching. They either keep the back end of the rotation or trade one of the top of the rotation. If they rrade 3 out of the 5 with what they have in the system it will be a long, long rebuild.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) Management should be out of the tips. Management should be in the procurement of the food and paying salaries and setting workplace rules. Which is what the M's seem to be trying to do. Why should the player's care who pays the food vendor? Using the restaurant analogy your waiter would be buying the food from a vendor, paying the bus boy, paying the bartender, etc. Part of it is the management arbitrarily saying that 60% goes to the management for food and only 40% stays in the clubhouse.They may think thats a little light and management it sticking their nose in a players transaction. I'm also sure that the players do care who pays and orders the food as again its a clubhouse activity and it should all stay there. I'm not saying it's necessarily right but from being in the clubhouses, the players get very protective of the clubbies

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) From the sound of it the clubhouse manager has employees, some are underage kids, on "his" payroll. These assistants are not on the club's payroll but on one of their employee's payroll probably paying them in cash. The clubhouse manager also has personal accounts receivable and payable to deal with for the food and beverages. I'm going to speculate here but I remember old stories about Babe Ruth sending a clubhouse kid to restaurants to get him some food. This is similar to how some private country clubs run their pro shops. They hire a professional and the pro runs the shop as his business. He buys the merchandise, cart fleet, hires staff and creates a payroll. But that model is being replaced almost everywhere. That sounds right. Im not sure how much money or tips the kids would get in the pro shop but the baseball players give them a great deal of money and they want to make sure it goes to the kids and other clubbies. I think much of this has to do with sale and eaton being anti management and don't want them to influence even more things in the clubhouse. The money is all for the clubhouse and it all should stay in the clubhouse in their view. The management should stay out of it.

Keep the faith. Our thoughts and prayers are with you. Light a candle for you and your family.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) I am sure the Indians were probably nervous about the same thing when they shipped Bartolo Colon to the Expos, but getting the guys they got back made that team competitive. I know. I can just see the reluctance. The front office will be criticized for years.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) That to me was the biggest deal here. All your points are right on the money, but the fact that if they trade Sale now and get that max return, when these players are ready to contribute Q will still be the ace here. It just makes so much sense to do it, I'm just not sure Sox will Agreed. I can understand the reluctance of the front office to trade a pitcher many consider to have HOF potential. No matter who the get, they may be known for the people that traded away an HOF pitcher in his prime.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:45 AM) This is reminding me of last year when Rick Hahn was a genius until the moves didn't work out, then it was all KW's fault. Now Sale is an idiot, must be traded...until he said it's Robin's fault. Then, you know Sale really didn't do anything any sane person would have done if his manager told him he had to wear the uniform the team put out. Welcome to pro union Chicagoland. It's always the fault of the boss and management!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) Chris Sale made the big deal about keeping stuff in the clubhouse earlier this season, but here he is publicly throwing Ventura to the dogs. Ithink it's becoming pretty obvious that with his actions and to a lesser extent Eatons actions, that they are very pro union and very anti management. His rationale and comments are going to be likean argument in the buster, very one sided and biased based and he will see his views and actions as correct.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) They could find themselves within 5 games or so and make the dumb decision to buy or keep things the same and it would be a mistake. Buying would be a mistake. Turning down a really good offer for either sale or Quintana would also be a mistake. However, if they don't get the offer they want ie, no moncada, mazara or urias from the respective teams, it would not be a mistake to wait until the offseason to make the deals.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) I bet he'd be winning more in that comfy Texas jersey or a Baltimore jersey. The jersey is why those teams have a few more wins.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 10:07 AM) Here is why the players are wrong. Having been on the management side of a similar issue here are the things that jumped out at me. Underaged employees working overtime. Who employs them? It sounds like the club hires them and the clubhouse manager pays them. I am shocked that system is still around in 2016. They may be taking 60% but they are also paying for the food, which was probably close to that or more. Here is how it should be. The visiting team is responsible for the food and drink for the players. The players should not be paying $50 a day for that. The home club employs and pays a decent salary to the employees responsible to assure the meals are there. If the players wish to tip the employees, they may. But the employee shouldn't be personally collecting meal money and paying for the meals, that is a club responsibility. It should also be the club's responsibility to manage employees including payroll, not the club house manager. The players are protecting a seriously flawed system from 100 years ago. The clubhouse manager is employed by the club and is the representative of the club handling all of this. What does it matter if its the assistant GM or the clubhouse manager running it, from the legal standpoint? The Sox players just want it to remain status quo and to be sure that the money atays in the clubhouse and that management isn't going to do something unfair. Of course there is no guarantee that the clubhouse manager isn't doing the same thing. However, the players would be more likely to hear about from the clubbies if this were the case.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) Ranaudo will have to clear waivers to stay with the Sox. The timing of this lends credence to the idea that the Sox will move a SP. Notice how when they were in it, they called up Turner, who was less deserving. Once they fell apart, Ranaudo got his shot. Sounds logical.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 01:56 AM) Sale is actually right. Robin had to have Sale's back on this. What if Sale would have hurt his arm wearing that s*** jersey? It would have come out that he hated the jersey and didn't want to wear it and somebody woulda been in deep trouble. Don't laugh. He hated the jersey. He might have gotten hurt that night and been able to blame whomever wanted them to wear the collars. Having been in the medical field for 30 years I can say that wearing that jersey would not cause him to hurt his arm. Sale is complaining that he wouldn't pitch as effectively.

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:10 PM) There isn't because Q has an extra year of control. They are essentially of equal value. Still disagree. Two very different pitchers.