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QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) So Sale told KW "get the f*** out of the clubhouse"? I feel bad for KW if Rollins/Avila really did tell him that the Drake stuff was getting old, and then Sale goes crazy on KW It his job. This is what the president does. Takes the complaint for players comes up with a compromise and asks someone to respect the other players.

QUOTE (LDF @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) so finally some one can take it easy on the sox management, the present management was doing the right thing without exposing the person who made the request. I'm sure Sox management would have preferred to take the blame and not divide the clubhouse. This will only hurt the team now. It was why it should have stayed in house. Laroche destroyed the performance last year and will destroy the team this year by leaking it all out.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) Yep it's really hard for any pitcher to be a leader just because they aren't out there every day. That said, it's obvious that Chris, while the best player on the team, isn't a strong natural leader. His idea of leadership seems to be flying off at the handle and showing anger. That's not what leaders do. It can be a part of leadership but it's certainly not the most important or even required. You've got to wonder if his actions would have been the same if his buddy hadn't decided to quit. Also, this is the exact reason it had to come from KW and not RV or RH.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) So he should have been fine with KW making him a closer full time? sale brought up the dissatisfaction with his job and the team handled it. Players brought up the dissatisfaction his their job environment andthe team handled it. Stay on topic your starting to sound like greg.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) He has his kid out there all the time. Even brings him to press conferences, which I guess is considered cute and not annoying to the press. Correct because the press doesn't have to deal with him for more than an hour. Or is an hour equivalent to all day because time is irrelevant.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 10:32 AM) Again, if the kid bothers someone that much, then why is it OK for that person to be bothered 3 days a week? Because 3 days a week, it's cute how much he cares about his kid. I can deal with my neighbors kid that much. Him being there everyday is annoying. If you truly can't understand why the kid being there everyday around all the time is different than him being there 3 days a week then either you have no annoying co-workers, kids or are just so mellow that nothing bothers you. Edit: I thought of another option: You are so anti-White sox FO or KW that you will always side against them.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) I've been in the White Sox team hotel many times. They would have zero problem avoiding the Drake at the hotel. But the issue is they shouldn't have to try to avoid the kid. What kind of work environment is that? But it's also not just the hotel. It's the plane rides, the bus rides, the locker room, the field etc. He flat abused the privilege of letting your kid be around the team. I've been in many pro sports clubhouses, it's difficult to avoid anyone there before games and after games.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) The bat boys arent traveling with the team to every away game and staying in the hotel with the players. True.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) The more I hear about this, the more it falls on KW for handling it badly. There are only a few ways this could have started... 1. Kenny did this fully on his own. That's bad - he really shouldn't be interfering in the clubhouse that way. Leave that to the manager, coaches and players. 2. A player (or players) went to KW about it. This is also bad in terms of what it says about Ventura and the players involved. But either way, even if this is what happened, KW's response should have been to go to Ventura, agree on a plan, and have Ventura handle it. Not KW. 3. A player went to Ventura, who escalated it to KW. Same as #2, Ventura should be the one to handle it. It's not about the decision - which was a reasonable and professional one. It is the way it was handled, which sounds like, badly by KW. KW handled it correctly, behind closed doors and not talking to the media. Either LaRoche or one of his group leaked it. you can't have the manager divide the clubhouse. It would be bad for everyone. Everyone can be mad at the person they don't need to see everyday. It was handled properly by the FO.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) If there was a policy in place saying Drake can come 3 days a week, I would be fine with it. But there wasn't, and still isn't. And he did the exact same thing last season. If it bothered a player and that is what KW is covering for, he could have waited a couple of weeks and changed the policy. LaRoche hasn't been playing so Drake's presence wasn't inhibiting his getting ready to play. If the team policy changed to no kids, that's fine too. So what you're saying is they need a policy for every conceivable situation. This is the problem when people abuse privileges. It becomes over regulated then people complain about the regulations. Do they need policies now to stop players from going on twitter to cause issues? Or can the team just go to them and say "please don't do that to your team mates." "I can do it it because there isn't a policy." There are common decent things to do for your co-workers or team mates. He abused it, players complained. Mulligan was on the score earlier and said he knows that some of the players that are the most supportive of laRoche on social media were the players that complained the most to the front office about the kid being there.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) I see bat boys every game. I see kids not related to players visting teams every day. No one on Soxtalk called LaRoche a bad parent or said his son was around too much when a couple articles about the situation came out last year. If there was a policy in place saying Drake can come 3 days a week, I would be fine with it. But there wasn't, and still isn't. And he did the exact same thing last season. If it bothered a player and that is what KW is covering for, he could have waited a couple of weeks and changed the policy. LaRoche hasn't been playing so Drake's presence wasn't inhibiting his getting ready to play. If the team policy changed to no kids, that's fine too. you are still not getting it. Regardless if he is playing the kid is around all the time. The batboys and girls are not in the locker room. There is no change in the policy. Kids are still welcome. Unfortunately, the sox as most teams, assume that a player would not abuse the privilege of bringing kids in. He is not banned from the clubhouse. He just can't be there all the time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:52 AM) I would bet there is a guy Drake LaRoche's age or younger around the Sox clubhouse 162 games this season even if LaRoche sticks with retiring. If it was so burdensome, why was this addressed in March of 2016, 13 months after this has been going on? No. There is not another kid ariund that much during the season. Most other kids are in school. I have never seen nor heard of another kid being around this much.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:49 AM) No it doesn't. Either kids are distractions or they are not. Either they make players uncomfortable or they don't. It makes no sense that this distraction is fine a few days a week, but it is unacceptable every day. Don't change the policy in the middle of spring training, and then have the nerve to say you didn't change the policy. KW could have waited a couple more weeks and then said no more. Drake was around last year. Why didn't he say anything then? This arguement is silly. They are a distraction when they are ariund too much. My neighbors kids are great but once they've been around the ehole weekend I get tired of them. It is a time factor. It has everything to do with being around too much.

QUOTE (AustinIllini @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:46 AM) And this is super common in all sports. Kids are around the clubhouse but not all the time. Yes they are. But in all the sports locker rooms ive been in baseball gives kids the most access. LaRoche just abused the privilege.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2016 -> 08:29 AM) Again, I would be fine then if KW just banned kids period. But he didn't. If they are a distraction, this is a half assed effort on his and the team's part. This is not an all or none concept. It would be fun for a kid to be there occasionally. Its a burden to have them there all the time. If you truly can't see that, you are just after crticizing KW to criticiae him.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 10:28 PM) Eh it's pathetic. Why the hell is the "executive VP" down in the clubhouse anyways to sort this out? That's literally like the first responsibility (and most important perhaps) of the manager. WTF are the paying RV for exactly? They are paying him to manage the team on the field and make sure its a good clubhouse environment for the players. Confronting players to guarantee a pirtion of them will have heated arguements is not the job of thr day to day managers. Most pro sports front office people will handle this off the field stuff.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 10:08 PM) I will say it is kind of pathetic that Ventura had nothing to say today about everything When it's players against players for off the field issues he should stay of it. He needs to manage and work with them daily on the field. They can't have the manager get into it with the players.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 07:19 PM) If Jose Anreu or Chris Sale brought their kid to the clubhouse every day this spring and Brett Lowry didn't like it, do you really think KW would have done the same thing? That is the one question to me is most important. KW talked about being fair, but I think, and perhaps incorrectly, LaRoche's status as a player had something to do with this. I think they would request this from anyone. From the reports, I've never seen anyone bring their kid to the clubhouse as much as he did, even last year when it wasn't 100% of the time. He was taking advantage of the team allowing the kid to be there. I think they didn't like it last year but got really concerned when it escalated this year. The team and players probably thought that with this being his last year the kid may be there all the time during the season for the farewell tour. They wanted him to cut back. He chose to spend all the time with his kid at home.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 06:24 PM) I'm gonna comment first, then read all your comments so to not let them influence me. Yes I despised LaRoche perhaps more than any other player in Sox history. But now, after reading Kenny Williams wouldn't let him bring his son to the clubhouse every day, I have changed my tune. I would gladly see LaRoche hit .150 with 80 percent strikeouts if it meant bringing him back to stick it up Kenny's backside so to speak. What a chicken s*** thing to do to LaRoche. Players bring their kids all the time to clubhouses. Very sad. Wonder if this will hurt the Sox in the future trying to sign guys. Again, I thought LaRoche was a pathetic hitter and I even despised his beard, but after reading this? Let him come back and bleep you, Kenny. FAMILY OVER EVERYTHING NASCAR

QUOTE (palehose1 @ Mar 16, 2016 -> 04:56 PM) The issue that bothers me is that shouldn't the manager control his clubhouse? Why didn't Robin manage this? Whey didn't the players go to Robin? Seems like it went two levels too high in the organization. Most likely because there were some players who were angry about the kid being there and others who were angry about the Sox treatment of LaRoche. You can't have part of the team angry with the day to day manager. He needs to work with them. KW took the blame as the president and as someone who doesn't see them day to day and doesn't work directly with their contract like Hahn.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 15, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) The White Sox are running out of punching bags. Danks, Avi, maybe Melky. I wonder which new ones will emerge. I know it's kind of silly but this was my thought. This board is really going to go after Avi this year without LaRoche around.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 14, 2016 -> 08:55 PM) There were a few comments during offseason that a few players weren't as positive in the clubhouse as the club expected. Had to be Samardzija and/or LaRoche Yes, the implication were that he didn't like Cooper, didn't pitch well and pouted and complained all season. It's not that the players didn't like him personally he just brought the clubhouse down.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 14, 2016 -> 04:41 PM) I don't want to sound like I am doubting you, because I don't have boots on teh ground the way that you do, I am just blown away to hear that because it is 180 degrees different from anything I have ever heard. Is there a study or something out there I can read up on? Or at least one simple enough for a layman to understand? Here is a list of references from a runners talk i did a few years ago. You should be able to find most. I couldn't get it to upload so he it is in a long post. Beedle BB ; Leydig SN ; Carnucci JM No difference in pre- and postexercise stretching on flexibility. J Strength Cond Res 2007 Aug; 21(3): 780-3 Behm DG ; Kibele A Effects of differing intensities of static stretching on jump performance. Eur J Appl Physiol) 2007 Nov; 101(5): 587-94 Buist I ; Bredeweg SW ; van Mechelen W ; Lemmink KA ; Pepping GJ ; Diercks RL No effect of a graded training program on the number of running-related injuries in novice runners: a randomized controlled trial. Am J Sports Med 2008 Jan; 36(1): 33-9 Conti A ; Rosponi A ; Dapretto L ; Magini V ; Felici F Cardiac and metabolic demands of in place shallow water running in trained and untrained men. J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2008 Jun; 48(2): 183-9 Esteve-Lanao J ; Foster C ; Seiler S ; Lucia A Impact of training intensity distribution on performance in endurance athletes. Source: J Strength Cond Res 2007 Aug; 21(3): 943-9 Fredericson M ; Misra AK Epidemiology and aetiology of marathon running injuries. Source: Sports medicine (Auckland, N.Z.) (Sports Med) 2007; 37(4-5): 437-9 Hahn D ; Seiberl W ; Schwirtz A Force enhancement during and following muscle stretch of maximal voluntarily activated human quadriceps femoris. Eur J Appl Physiol 2007 Aug; 100(6): 701-9 Helgerud J ; Høydal K ; Wang E ; Karlsen T ; Berg P ; Bjerkaas M ; Simonsen T ; Helgesen C ; Hjorth N ; Bach R ; Hoff J Aerobic high-intensity intervals improve VO2max more than moderate training. Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007 Apr; 39(4): 665-71 Iaia FM ; Thomassen M ; Kolding H ; Gunnarsson T ; Wendell J ; Rostgaard T ; Nordsborg N ; Krustrup P ; Nybo L ; Hellsten Y ; Bangsbo J Reduced volume but increased training intensity elevates muscle Na+-K+ pump {alpha}1-subunit and NHE1 expression as well as short-term work capacity in humans. Am J Physiol Regul Integr Comp Physiol 2008 Mar; 294(3) Kilding AE ; Scott MA ; Mullineaux DR A kinematic comparison of deep water running and overground running in endurance runners. J Strength Cond Res 2007 May; 21(2): 476-80 Midgley AW ; McNaughton LR ; Jones AM Training to enhance the physiological determinants of long-distance running performance: can valid recommendations be given to runners and coaches based on current scientific knowledge? Sports medicine (Auckland, N.Z.) (Sports Med) 2007; 37(10): 857-80 O'Brien BJ ; Wibskov J ; Knez WL ; Paton CD ; Harvey JT The effects of interval-exercise duration and intensity on oxygen consumption during treadmill running. Source: J Sci Med Sport 2008 Jun; 11(3): 287-90 Rozenek R ; Funato K ; Kubo J ; Hoshikawa M ; Matsuo A Physiological responses to interval training sessions at velocities associated with VO2max. J Strength Cond Res 2007 Feb; 21(1): 188-92 Sporis G ; Ruzic L ; Leko G Effects of a new experimental training program on V.O2max and running performance. J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2008 Jun; 48(2): 158-65 Stewart M ; Adams R ; Alonso A ; Van Koesveld B ; Campbell S Warm-up or stretch as preparation for sprint performance? Source: J Sci Med Sport 2007 Dec; 10(6): 403-10 van Gent RN ; Siem D ; van Middelkoop M ; van Os AG ; Bierma-Zeinstra SM ; Koes BW Incidence and determinants of lower extremity running injuries in long distance runners: a systematic review. Source: Br J Sports Med 2007 Aug; 41(8): 469-80 Wen DY Risk factors for overuse injuries in runners. Curr Sports Med Rep 2007 Oct; 6(5): 307-13

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 14, 2016 -> 04:41 PM) I don't want to sound like I am doubting you, because I don't have boots on teh ground the way that you do, I am just blown away to hear that because it is 180 degrees different from anything I have ever heard. Is there a study or something out there I can read up on? Or at least one simple enough for a layman to understand? I'll post a reference list when I get back to work. i'm on break now. There was one study that looked at 1,000 runners and did a blinded project and found the increase in injuries and decrease in performance. This is a 180 from what i learned in school as well. It's mostly been in the last decade or so that it has really been studied.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Mar 14, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) We don't do normal stretching for my sons travel team. Its dynamic warmups and jaeger bands. Yes, those are much more effective.