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QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) It is just so nice to hear how Jerry Reinsdorf has managed to make himself and his investors happy over the years through his ability to "maximize profits", and to make Bud Selig happy by quote unquote playing by the rules. Meanwhile, with a terrible record of achievement over the years on the field, he has left the fan base most unhappy, as evidenced by the team's most recent attendance figures and TV ratings. And yet you can take it to the bank that at some point over next weekend at Soxfest, both Hahn and Williams will remind you of Jerry Reinsdorf's "competitive spirit" and "commitment to bring home another championship". Should sound familiar, they say the same thing every year. Reconciling the words with the results, though, gives you an entirely different answer. The day someone can prove that he is maximizing profits as opposed to putting back into the team is the day that any of this non-sensical complaining makes. You say you think he is cheap and doesn't care about winning. You can say he alienates fans with his attitude. But its all opinonand not proof. Odds are its somewhere in the middle. Its a business they are allowed to make a profit for the board of investors.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 03:19 PM) I'd like to add one more thing that Mike (Eminor) missed when talking about pitch framing since I've made a nuisance of myself in the past about it. The umps also play a key role. Perhaps the strike zone is called tighter than it used to be but catchers know which umps have certain tendencies to call the high strike, low strike ,inside and outside corners and they roll with it and hope the pitcher can take advantage of it. I was listening to LaTroy Hawkins tell a story on MLBN where he said to Greg Maddox ," You know those pitches aren't strikes don't you " ? and Maddux replied along the lines of I can't help it if I can hit that spot 8 out of 10 times and you can do it only 4. Meaning if you can do it that consistently the ump will give it to you. Another thing I was watching about Livan and Orlando Hernandez defection from Cuba and when Livan was pitching in the ALCS or World Series and the ump behind the plate was calling everything away off the plate a strike. So Charles Johnson ,the catcher ,goes out to the mound and says to Livan, "I think we just need to stay away away away." Livan agrees and ends up with 15K's .That kind of thing has a domino effect. Hitters see it being called a strike and they end up saying "well now I have to swing at that pitch" and when the pitcher gets them swinging at it he goes even further outside. Being an intelligent pitcher is an art form that involves the catcher and the ump and the pitchers ability to take advantage of his reputation and change a plan when the circumstances call for it. Yes, the key point is the it only works consistently with the really good pitchers because they are the ones that can consistently hits those spots. The pitcher and catcher need to execute that plan not just know what the ump calls.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 04:22 AM) Well we will see if the Sox have any intentions of spending money when some of the big boys are out of it. It'll be like the free agent class this year .And we know how that went. The Sox have never shown any indication of going over the allotment for the high end talent. I don't expect that to change. The Sox just do not outbid teams for the best talent available on any level. Abreu fell in their lap basically and they probably hoped the same thing would happen with any of the big 3 but hoping most of the 29 other teams disappear is no way of doing business. I know the Sox have hired different personnel lately for some of these things but I'm pretty convinced they will have to work within budgetary constraints and do the best they can within that framework. Reinsdorf has always benefited and maximized profits by just playing by the rules whereas other teams exploit the loopholes. He's always been a good boy with his buddy Bud Selig because bucking the system made trouble for the commish but mostly because it fit his agenda for limiting spending. JR has always played by the rulss because he has been advocate for cost control and salary caps. He has been on tne committees which developed the rules such as drafted slotting. Agree or diagree with that process but how would be perceived by the other owners if the people who created the rules ignored them? There probably would be no further attempts on spending control by the owners.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 06:14 PM) The thing is, this isn't at work. This is on social media. This isn't Cooper being heckled on the field and losing his s*** on a fan, this is someone who sent him(supposedly) a private message to tell him this. If someone I didn't know sent me a private message and told me stuff like that, and I responded similarly I can tell you that A: my employer wouldn't care and B: I wouldn't be worried about responding similarly. And I highly doubt people in the front office were like "holy s*** Cooper just told off a fan, better tell him to knock it off" I agree with you on all points. I don't really care and I'm sure the sox don't either. However, we all know what kind of hot head cooper is so I wouldn't be surprised if he did this. As a matter of fsact I've heard him on the radio tell radio hosts off when they got too critical.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 03:03 PM) I could see if Cooper expressed this to someone over a drink at a bar or whatever, but to put his opinions (rather negative toward the paying customer, I might add) out there over social media, radio, TV, etc? I would think someone in the the organization might tell Don to knock it off. Its not like they are at capacity with season ticket holders…its like the last thing the organization needs is another reason for fans to possibly stay away… Do you really think that if someone criticized the team and probably said something to the effect that his bosses are "clueless and they suck" and cooper replied, "yes they do but we are trying to get better" that they would sell more tickets? I'm with you where I really wish he wouldn't do that. But I understand his point of view. None of us would like it if we were yelled at work in front of everyone that we suck. However, it really doesn't make that much of a difference in attendance or the team.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) The problem remains; with as little high level talent in the system as the White Sox have, in no small part because of the trades the last 2 offseasons, the White Sox will struggle to tread water when those guys leave in 2 years. They will have to either take a substantial step back in 2018 at those spots by playing rookies there that were pushed aggressively to the big leagues, or they will have to trade the little bits they are able to develop for veterans to continue treading water. And that sets them up with the same problem as last year and this year - a weak roster, not well stocked enough to compete unless "Everything" goes right, and not enough resources to hang with the well-built teams. That's the road to Sale and Abreu then leaving. I don't think the recent trades impacted high level talent. I think they traded pieces but nothing high level. They kept the possible impact players. These are the pieces that will make or break the team. Johnson, Bassit, Thompson et al, were not going to take this team anywhere. Anderson, Fulmer may. As the other develop they will know more. If they look like impact players they will be on the right track, if not then it is going to take longer. With the limited budget, they need to grow the impact players. Then use FA to fill in pieces.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) Who cares? I agree with Matt. It was very warm no matter how you cut it. That is problematic. How about we figure out how to do something to solve the problem rather than waste energy arguing about whether it was the worst or the second worst? The discussion is frequently made that the earth goes through normal heating and cooling cycles. Some will still insist that there isn't a problem because it can occur naturally. I'm not saying I agree but much of the arguing revolves around is there truly a problem, regardless of the data.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 03:20 PM) While we're on the subject of funding, should I link to the multiple "skeptic" scientists who have all been found to be willing to produce a report that says whatever you want it to say as long as you meet their price? I know lots of those on both sides of many topics. The same could be said for the "global warming is the fault of people" idea. This is why any credible publications will have a list of all funding. In the current environment (pun intended) what type of research do you think will garner more attention, grants and publications, everything is fine or the world is heating up so we need to spend more money to change it?

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:17 PM) There are two big remaining holes on this roster: 1) One good defensive outfielder, for CF or RF, who is at least an average hitter. 2) A respectable OBP, power bat, preferably left handed to bat between Abreu and Frazier. If he hits RHP exceptionally well, it would be acceptable if he were right handed I continue to think that SS is not a hole, as Saladino is a good defender with good speed, and some modest offensive potential. That should be adequate, if the other 2 holes are filled. Frazier at 3RD, Lawrie at 2ND & Abreu at 1ST provide enough potential offense for the infield. Defense at SS is more important. Austin Jackson is my favorite remaining Free Agent, without the loss of a draft pick, for the outfield. That leaves the middle of the order left handed bat. I wish someone could provide hope that La Roche would not be a total black hole again, in that spot. However, I doubt that anyone can make a credible argument for that. Who is out there, who might fill that hole, in a trade, or free agent acquisition? The only open spot is DH, if they sign Jackson. I'd still like to have Ethier, if trading for him didn't cost much in talent. At his age, he would be fine as a DH, or a corner outfielder, with Melky moving to DH. Andre isn't of much use vs LHP, but he is a solid professional hitter vs RHP. I don't think they will start Laroche on the bench at the beginning of season. I think they will give him a chance to prove himself. If he doesn't do well, I see them trying to add a bat early in the season through a trade. I think the only move the sox will do is one bat mostly likely the OF but Desmond is still a possibility.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) EXACTLY. Sin duda, dude. Having a draft pick in a particular year is indeed an asset. It's currency. If you're a team that excels in selecting players, then that currency has a certain value. If you look in your team mirror and you arguably, well, blow at drafting OTHER than picking some obvious studs at the top of a draft (where you hope not to be anyway), then that currency has a different value. If taking on the right FA costs you a relatively high draft pick -- in a year when that was an additional pick anyway and you still have a high #1 and #2 -- then you do it when you're loading for the next two years anyway. The FA you get (or a combo of FAs if you go Desmond/Jackson) are guaranteed big leaguers, albeit with risks attached to both. That high 20s draft pick you give up has no such guarantee. Frankly, not even close. And anticipating the counter arguments ... YES, you surely don't want to do this year after year. Do it every year like this and you've taken your chances to ever develop a strong and deep farm system from slim to none. I'm talking THIS YEAR ... THESE circumstances ... because we've already committed to going for it for the next two years This is where we disagree. I don't think there is a commitment to go for it for two years. I know I'm mostly alone in this but just because they've traded for a player that has 2 years on his deal doesn't mean that is the end of it. Sale and Abreu are under contract for 4. The sox have control of rodon for 5. It doesn't have to end at 2. If the deal makes sense, do it but if it limits the team too much, don't.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) Who knows what went down. These media-driven notions that the Nats offer of 5/100ish was "higher" are silly....The Mets' 3/75 with an opt out is a much better offer. The Sox FO just doesn't execute very well, however. Seem to lack a coherent strategy and the ability to pull the trigger. The mets offer was not significantly better. Im not really good at math but 100 is more than 75. At the end of the mets deal he will be 33. It is not known how he will be doing in his mid-30s. Once you have the guaranteed money its there. He went back to the mets because he wanted to all along. It has the benefit of possibly being good if he performs well.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) If Lagares was on the Sox with his .667 OF OPS, people would want him gone yesterday. We traded an defensive fielder (who raked in his cup of coffee) who was universally termed a "fourth OF." He wasn't as good as Lagares defensively and he well over played his minor league numbers which does bode well for his being able to sustain the offensive numbers from the short time in the MLB last year. That is why he was labeled a 4th OF.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) I fully expect Soxfest to be cringeworthy due to hecklers/angry fans when Hahn/FO members are around. If I were RH, I would be at a different session than KW. Most people still seem to blame KW when things don't go the way they want.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) I think that this thread, under standard viewing options, is now at page 400. Mine shows 120 pages. I'm not sure why. I must have changed something or my browser did. I think the 6000 posts is the goal. I honestly thought there would be more of a backlash after he signed elsewhere. I guess either people were tired of it or realized that the 27.5 million balloon payment (if he took the opt out) was just crazy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) I think they will do something as well. The guys out there shouldn't take a lot of time. The more the players wait, the fewer openings, and the lower the offers at this point. Agreed. I think they will do something to improve the lineup. However, I also think no matter what it is, some fans at Soxfest will use it as they were too cheap to sign Cespedes.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:09 PM) When a member of the organization, coach.. executive.. investor.. player.. whatever.. says .. "if you complain, WE don't want you as a fan anyway" What would that lead you to believe? That he has an opinion? I am an employee of the state of illinois. I know my opinion about the state is vastly different than the view of the governor and legislature. People even employees are entitlted to opinions. I would not put that on the rest of organization especially the view of a cantankerous old new yorker.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) That's just it, I don't see it being an issue worth looking into or making a stink over. My point is that you want to discuss the issue without providing the info needed to have a proper discussion. To be honest, you're coming across as just spamming SoxTalk to get members to join the Facebook group where Cooper supposedly had these exchanges with some fans. I think he is Jeff Samardzija.

QUOTE (captain54 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) One of the things Cooper said in one of his recent online rants was, (not an exact quote)…"if you are going to be a negative or complaining fan, we don't want you as a fan".. If you don't think this could be damaging in some respect in the Sox attempts to regain some relevancy in this town, then I basically think you are choosing not to look at it realistically This was directed at both season ticket holders, past season ticket holders, or possibly potential season ticket holders.. Basically saying. "if you don't agree with what we do f--k you" It's not what Cooper says or does that is the issue, IMHO.. it's that it raises the question of whether this reflects the organization as a whole's attitude toward the Sox fan.. People are going to go to games, or not go to games despite what Cooper says, I agree with that.. It's not a issue that is at the forefront of what the Sox are faced with approaching a new season, but I think its noteworthy in that this happens again and again.. a high ranking member of the Sox organization disparaging the paying customer.. I think its pretty safe to say that any one coach doesn't speak for the entire organization. Maybe Brooks Boyer but not a coach.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 09:17 AM) All true. But once they backed themselves into this corner, committed to a plan, you finish it. Too bad. All got crazy for the so-called Big Three. Fine. Take a pass. Don't be insane. But finish the job elsewhere. To me, this means Jackson/Desmond. Yep, lose a pick. One stinkin pick (out of the three important picks). Chances of getting value out of the J/D combo are a lot better than value from that second pick. Besides, finish this year's plan since we've already committed! Its all about asset management, . If RH feels that a couple of years of Fowler, Desmond or Jackson is better than the pick you do it. Picks are more than likely not to produce an mlb player so if the contract is a good one they will do it.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:38 AM) I'm not sure even 5/110 guaranteed would have got it done now. His original demands were 6/150. He seemed really intent on getting $25M AAV and i figured all along he's end up back in the NL somewhere to feast on the pitching of all those teams rebuilding. That way he increases his chances of having another big year and getting that $25M AAV after the opt out for longer terms. The pint of staying in the nl especially with ateam for whom he had success is agood one. That one year opt out could really help boost the value for next year when there will be fewer options. Its actually a good business decision. Edit: I really suck at typing on these screen keyboards. I don't think I've ever had a post without gross typos.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:03 PM) Replace him with whom and at what cost after presumably eating much of Danks' contract? Danks as a 4th or 5th starter is perfectly fine. He was 60th among all starters in fWAR. There is a lot of value as a starter in just taking the ball 30 times a year and throwing 180 innings. Yeah, the starting 5 is set. Any additions will be for depth so it won't be a big deal. The only significant addtion for this team will be one more bat.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) That deal really only makes sense for the Mets in my opinion. I'm not really sure that's even true. I said that I would offer a 3 year deal with a high AAV to keep the deal short. I don't think I would have gone that high.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:40 PM) Where did the notion come that Desmond is bad on D? I guess it really is more that "is his offense over saladino enough to make up the contract and the pick"

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:34 PM) Still just hope that if they were in on Cespedes that they use that money elsewhere in the next few weeks. It will be interesting to see. I'm not sure there are improvements out there. EJ needs a shot in the rotation. Desmond is interesting but the sox need defebse there for the pitching staff.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:27 PM) They could have done a Davis-like thing where they paid him a small amount every year for the next couple decades. There were ways to get it done. He turned that deal down from the nationals, reportedly.