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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:24 PM) If he clearly wanted to go to the Mets all along, they should have done their due diligence and started negotiating with Fowler, Jackson, Desmond, etc., days ago. We'll see if that was the case or not...if they really believed they were playing poker and the market was forced in their favor or direction. Of course he told the sox that they weren't in it. The sox were only offering a three year deal so they weren't in it from the start.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:07 PM) Here comes the meltdown NASCAR

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:42 PM) And I say he is. Agree to disagree. BUY THE GOOD MEAT ! Ok. But from all accounts it should be: BUY THE GOOD SMOKED MEAT!

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:18 PM) Have you seen what franchise changing players are going for now ? Over $200M ! Cespedes at less than his original expected price is about the most we can hope for. But still waiting on some franchise changing player just for around what we paid Abreu ($68M ). Hey it can happen again if it happened once right ? With good international scouting it might. Regardless of Abreu status, cespedes just isn't worth the chance. Unless it comes at a no more than 4 guaranteed deal.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:08 PM) Therein lies the rub. Closest to a franchise-changing free agent available without trading Anderson/Fulmer or giving up draft pick compensation prior to October, 2017...is the caveat here. And franchise-changing player is exactly what he was last season. Close to MVP-caliber. Much lesser contract seasons have caused the White Sox to overbid on free agents in the past. And where did it get them in the past? You are still looking short term with trading Anderson/Fulmer. Maybe it's when they are on the team? RH just needs to continually improve the team until they get to that point. Right now the team hasn't shown it is ready to contend. Cespedes was that for 1/2 a year. Do you really think that he will continue that? Some people do. Obviously most GMs do not, with the lack of big contracts.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 07:49 PM) Thank you Caulfield and personally I think that was one of you better posts. Everything you talked about was related to how much the Sox need Cespedes . Just too much failure lately in a lot of areas. The failures mostly being in the "settling" type of FA who ends up crippling the Sox anyway because they all sucked . High end FA means less likely to suck right away . The Sox are "settlers" . That DirecTV commercial gets credit for me calling the Sox "settlers". They settle for leftovers and like hungry dogs they fight over the scraps. Then they find out the scraps have worms and the dog dies. Lesson learned buy the good meat. I agree they have been settling for the second tier FA. If RH is under this budget constraint, the other way to go is to create less dependency on FA. Now no team can forego all FA. But they produce or trade for proven MLB players. Then they can go out and get the one FA to put them over the top. I just don't agree that this scenario is now. Cespedes is not a superstar you sign to put you over the top. He is currently the best option, but not a franchise changing player.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 07:11 PM) We just differ too much in regarding the future. You seem to know the future . You've repeatedly said his moves will not hurt the future. whereas I'm just dealing with how he's done in the present. You know the future that's great but sorry you don't. The present isn't good . That's what I know and so far there isn't much of a future to speak of without depth in the minors and players with only 1 or 2 years arriving via trade. This is the paradox of being a fan. You want to win now, which is understandable. However, then there are complaints about not making the playoffs for a long stretch of time. It's very difficult to do both all tge time. All teams go through ups and down with success. A GM cannot just look to an individual year and disregard tge future otherwise tge team will be really bad. I know we disagree on this but I don't want to go through more periods of long playoff doughts. I want them to start building consistent winners. I also disagree that tge future isn't good. They had some automatic outs in the lineup last year. They've improved 3 of them. That is a significant improvement in the composition of the lineup. I agree that everything will need to go right to make the playoffs. I also thini tge team will be significantly better and is on the right track. The problem is that it takes the one thing that is the most difficult thing to do in sports, have patience.

QUOTE (Special K @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 06:47 PM) Dick was right. I just notice that he defends sox brass staunchly. The organization is struggling right now. If it's all KW, then JR needs to fire him or sell. We're in the 3rd largest city in the country and 0 playoff appearances in 8 years is pathetic. Why do people think RH is a complete idiot and took a job where he has no decision capabilities? If they sign free agents to large deals, it's all KW. If they don't sign free agents, it's all KW.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:11 PM) Samardzija blew up Frazier and Lawrie are only 2 years . Shark was 1 year. Hahn didn't make those trades and FA signings thinking he wouldn't compete. He made them to compete in the short term . If he was playing the long term game and I can admit he still might be then where's the minor league depth ? You like his philosophy. I don't even see a philosophy. We aren't satisfied with the short term results because he's been playing the short term game and losing badly mainly because he can't finish what he started and what he started ends quickly with those traded for gone in 1 or 2 years. Compete, yes. Give everything away for an "all-in," no. The philosophy is to continue to improve the team while not sacrificing the future. none of the prospects traded away were possible impact players. He kept the really good ones and traded away "pieces." They may be MLB players but nothing of consequence. In return, he received proven MLB players which will help the team. Nothing he did will hurt the future and will help in the present. Minor league depth is not as important as impact prospects and proven MLB talent. Granted it's a risk just like signing FA to long term deals. However, with the financial constraints placed upon him, he cannot afford to have deadweight contracts on the books for an extended period of time. That's why signing FA to the longterm deals isn't a good play here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 12:00 PM) If you are going to sign him for a year, why not just have brought Alexei back for $4 million? I did like the idea of bringing him in earlier this year, but I also thought he could probably play 3B. That is covered. Hopefully, Tim Anderson shows us SS is covered in 2017. I just don't know why you give up a pick and pay more money for Desmond when you had a guy who you could have brought back for peanuts. Probably because this would be a secondary option to improve the offense and Alexei didn't wait around (not that I would expect him to). If they do sign Desmond it's because they didn't get an improvement in RF they wanted. I would still expect them to go after Fowler, then move onto Desmond.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) Then it's just backlash speculative bulls*** not based on anything concrete against a guy who many are envious. Yes it's one of many things to be investigated. But when it get's more attention than is warranted and is cited as if its a fact it's irresponsible . There's one main reason that the Sox won't go longer term and it's that unless you are the Yankees Dodgers Red Sox it is fiscally irresponsible to hand out longer term contracts that pay for declining years. That has been apparent for years that those deals invariably becomes albatrosses to teams that don't have deep pockets. Unfortunately those contracts have been standard practice in MLB for years but the Sox still play the game hoping against hope and getting all our hopes up by playing the game and coming up short most of the time. When they do play the game and actually sign a FA they end up losing because the 2nd tier guys are almost always ore risky than the 1st tier guys Less financially volatile but more volatile as far as being productive on the field. In the last 2 years the Sox have given up 2 draft choices for free agents and possible a third if Desmond becomes a reality. Also 4 minor leaguers last year and 5 this year . Add up all that and it's 11 players from the minors and possibly 12 . Everyone says oh they will never be impact players . Yet Semien is already in the top 10 MLB SS according to MLB network analysis . Who knows who else may become valuable . Shark Lawrie and Frazier , that's 5 years total on the MLB field for 9 minor leaguers and 2 draft choices. I thought recently Hahn spoke of sustained success . How are they going to do that if they have to keep restocking the farm and getting outbid for FA difference makers ? Dumpster diving is pure luck. Relying on the few high end minor leaguers is highly speculative that they will make it. The only way to win the minor league game is have a deep system where more players can surprise you with unexpected development to offset those who disappoint you. The system is even less deep than it was now. In 2 years we start all over again because Melky, Lawrie Frazier are gone. Or we don't compete in those 2 years and trade off pieces. Either way it's starting over. Hahn has been a colossal failure . Getting Abreu and signing Sale Eaton Quintana to great deals doesn' t come close to all the failed money poured into unproductive FA's and prospects traded off. Those are a lot of players and years of control . So far it's his legacy that being below .500 or investing enough to be .500 and having no farm system is about what to expect. I think this is something yet to be determined. The Sox switched philosophies with both drafting and handling the MLB roster when he took over. He has received good value for most of his trades and not sacrificed much. The past few drafts are producing MLB talent and provided enough depth to trade for MLB talent. That is really what the minors are for, either being MLB talent or acquiring it yet. The fact that he doesn't have the budget to take risky chances on long term deals is not his fault. He needs to play with the budget he gets. I think the short term deals for FA combined with the minors producing talent (or acquiring it) is the path to MLB success. RH has only had the job a few years and I like the philosophy he is following. It is not a quick process and many people aren't satisfied with the short term results but I think in hte long term it will payoff.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) I respectfully disagree. I think he is worth that contract, given the current market conditions. He brings power, defense and speed to this team, which the last time I looked, we were running short on. And at age 30, where a five year contract would end before he turns 35, I think we could expect the kind of production throughout the term of the contract to justify it. That's just my opinion. This is the key difference. The Sox obviously disagree that he is worth it. I would agree mostly due to age and inconsistent career. I respect your opinion, just disagree with it.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) It seems like the White Sox were offering a short term deal of 3-4 years because that's what everyone else interested was doing as well. Cespedes probably figures that if there isn't big $$ to be had, then he'd rather just go back to the Mets. I don't think the Sox played this wrong. They just set a limit to as far as they'd go to sign Cespedes. He's a good player. He's not a great player. They were interested if the market came to them and I think it did. However, Cespedes would rather be in New York. If you think the White Sox should have offered him a $100 million contract and that they are cheap because they didn't, that's your prerogative. WhiteSoxLIfer: This isn't about you. Just in general. I think it's more that it was all they think he is worth more than it was what what others were offering. They have determined what they think he is worth and they are sticking to it. They will not grossly overpay. I think this is the correct way to approach all FA.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:05 AM) The Sox should just offer 5/$110M with no deferred money and an opt-out after year 2. I really think he would accept that right now. He would but the Sox would be crazy to do that. He isn't worth that long deal.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 08:08 PM) Here's Cespedes in the locker room according to beat writers Cheers, b@#*ch!

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 07:58 PM) Problem is Fowler could come off the market to the Cubs as well. Things look bleak at the moment. I didn't see the Fowler to the cubs info. That would put a damper on the process

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 07:51 PM) http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/12...year-offer-nats I think maybe fathom has been right all along in his views on Cespedes. I really hope the Sox have moved on and can find an outfielder elsewhere. Hey, chopped liver here.

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 06:15 PM) The FA class is extremely weak next year and they really don't have the resources to land a good OF through trade, so if they don't upgrade at RF this offseason, it'll likely be an offensive blackhole in 2017 too. That's a possibility but not definite. They have a few really good prospects they could trade, if the return was worth it. It all depends on who becomes available.

QUOTE (WSkid @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 05:48 PM) If the FO thinks Cespedes is the best choice and they don`t sign him because they`re worrying about 2-3 yrs down the road then they deserve an empty ballpark.If they think Cespedes is the best bet to get to the playoffs and maybe the WS then they do whatever they have to to sign him.If they don`t think he can get them in the playoffs they shouldn`t even be talking to him.1 WS in 35 yrs they should be doing all they can to win. I would disagree. Just because he is the best current choice doesn't mean he is the best choice later in the off season or next year, maybe the team that signs him trades someone for next to nothing. Just because he is the hot topic doesn't mean he is the best choice.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 04:38 PM) You know, if it didn't seem that we were so close to actually getting him, I wouldn't even care if he signed with anyone else. I honestly think they were until the Nationals came in and added years onto the deal that the others were offering.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) I think the rest of my post addresses this pretty clearly. I agree. I was just asking you if you thought Abreu made up for not hitting on the others. I've been dealing with grad students all day. I didn't really word it properly.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) They struck out on Davidson and Avi, and you are seeing the price you pay when you don't have a farm that can cover mistakes. If we have starters in RF/3b, this is a very different offseason. Does the fact that they struck gold with Abreu offset this? Imagine the team if they were not shrewd enough to sign him. You just can't look at the negatives. No FO is going to hit on all transactions. You need to weigh the positives and negatives together. That's why the teams that are consistently the best develop their own. The true price they are paying is from not developing their own players.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 02:01 PM) This is the dilemma, if you don't sign Cespedes you can't justify giving up a draft pick for Fowler. Not with the state of our farm system and the reality we're seeing here, which is we're not going to land these big FA with some self imposed limit on contract years. To get a player like Cespedes, we'd either have to draft him or trade for him. This is the route they should take. Much better to become a consistent winner IMHO.

QUOTE (BigFinn @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:58 PM) After this season, Jose Abreu becomes arbitration eligible. He could be looking for a 5 year/$100+ commitment. If the Sox pushed all their chips in on Upton or Cespedes, they might be forced to trade Abreu for financial considerations. And I would rather have Abreu. This is a good point. I would much rather hang onto Abreu long term as well. If he is arb eligible now he will be an FA during the proposed Cespedes contract. That could be the determination for the 3 year contract. Isn't that when Abreu would become an FA?

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 21, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) I meant premiere FA acquisitions I should have clarified my sarcastic post Sorry, I thought it was a serious post. My sarcasm meter isn't functioning well today.