ptatc

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) It's strange as the more I read about Cespedes, the more I want nothing to do with him from the Sox standpoint. Sox aren't going to outbid everyone else on a short deal and I agree with them that anything more than 3 is too much. I think 4 guaranteed would be the max. Something like 6 with mutual or team options would be fine but no more than 4 guaranteed.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 01:13 PM) 31-0... yikes How can a team be so dominant in one half and awful in the second?

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) To my understanding, the thought is that with dvrs, on demand services, Netflix and the like, live sports is the best value for advertisers since they're watched live This is a point of view I hadn't thought of. It is true in my case. I think the only shows I watch when they are actually on are sporting events. They are probably the only time the commercials are actually shown in our house..

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 01:05 PM) So 2 days ago he was deciding between a 5 year $90 million offer from the Orioles and a 1 year offer from the Mets. Now there are 10 teams interested and he doesn't have to bother with a short term offer. You have to love the Twitter. Yeah, sounds like the agent's PR machene working over time.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) With all due respect (because you are generally one of my must-reads here on Soxtalk), I could not disagree with you more. Boras ... was the reason the Orioles offered Davis what they offered him originally. The O's knew who they were dealing with and likely saw no value in trading opening show salvos. In addition, the first formal "offer" was likely tendered following all sorts of informal communications outlining what Davis expected to see. And then, following the crazy money going to good plus, but hardly superstar Hayward, we see this wacky market that nobody predicted -- pitchers, even journeymen, getting mega dollars, position players having to scratch and claw, and the top of the market position players suddenly being all but ignored. The Orioles could have moved on from Davis at any time, they could have dropped their offer by 25% or more with this new reality, and yet, Boras did what he does -- postured, obfuscated, created technically possible but really illusory markets (see Davis as a corner OF'er), and most all NEVER, EVER caving to get the same total dollar deal that had been offered under VERY different circumstances months previously. I think if you only focus on the agent's job being "to negotiate a better deal than the original," you erroneously give Boras and Co. no credit for that crazy original, plus you miss the subtlety of him getting anything close when in the interim there had been an almost stock market crash on position players. And the full truth is that Boras didn't even get the original deal -- the $1M more than he got in AAV is eclipsed by the significant deferral that is very unlikely to have been part of the first incarnation of the deal. But the Evil Prince got close. With a markedly changed market. With only one true bidder (it's amazing how Boras does that time and time again). If you're Hosmer, Moustakas, Kris Bryant, or our very own Carlos Rodon, do you like Boras more or less than you did a month ago. To me, looking at the full situation, you have to like the guy more ... a LOT more. I dislike virtually everything about that guy, but I have to give him his props. And if I or my son had been a top baseball talent, I wouldn't hesitate to use him -- focusing only on playing the game, letting Boras do what he does, and keeping clear from the firestorm to minimize becoming collateral damage at a personal level. Scott Boras is the consummate hired gun. It's fine to disagree. I seem to be the only one with this point of view. He is extremely good at his job. I wouldn't deny that. I just don't see it in this case.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 11:00 AM) http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/yoenis-...erm-deal-011716 I would agree with the article. I think a 4 year deal at 22 million per year is a fair deal for everyone.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 10:00 AM) You seem fixated on the lack of significantly gaining more $$ in the deal Davis signed, which is fine in a vacuum. That is not my point. The fact that he got a contract technically bigger the the initial offer, after his market looked to crater, I can't see that as a loss. I doubt Davis and Boras are upset with their deal. That is usually the agent's job, to negotiate a better deal than the original. I'm sure they are really happy that the Orioles offered that big deal prior to realizing there was no money for big contracts this off season. My comments were directed toward the "what a great job Boras did." He basically looked at the original offer and turned into Butthead and saying" Uh, OK." He earned a large chunk of change for really no negotiating. Davis could have agreed to their first offer with no representation and did nearly as well without paying an agent.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) Sound like a bunch of sore losers. No shock from that scumbag family. It's amazing how the only annoying ones were the ones they lost to. They really enjoyed the trips to the cities where they won.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 08:18 AM) More like all these posts to prove or disprove something that might never have been realistic... I suppose if both Cespedes and Upton end up in the AL, someone will argue we raised the contract value enough to damage those franchises n terms of their financial flexibility. y You won't be able to prove or disprove anything as you won't know what other offers were out there other than the one he signs. Everyone on the board will explode with what their guesses are but it won't prove anything. There will be posters blaming KW if they don't get him and praising RH for tough negotiations if they do. Thre will 2000 posts of how wasted this off season was or how they will now be ready for the world series. It's either black or white, doomed or championship. It will be really entertaing either way.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 09:27 PM) It's a great deal for Davis, period. The deferred money is tax-free in terms of Texas state income tax. Davis lives in Texas. Anyone saying Davis/Boras didn't come out on top is grasping at straws. So you are saying that basically accepting the Orioles first offer good negotiating. Usually the agents get more out of the team than the first offer.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN Chris Davis contract structure: $17m annual salary 2016-2022. Annual payments $3.5m 2023-32, then $1.4m 2033-37. No interest on deferrals.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 12:59 PM) Exactly, Davis would have lost a ton of money if Baltimore would have finally told Boras to go f*** himself. Holding to his guns and getting even a cent more is incredible given he really didn't have any leverage. He had alot of leverage. the Orioles wanted him back. He's a productive player who fit what they wanted and was popular with the fan base. This was marketing as much as anything.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) Considering the fact that some of us thought that he might get less than the original offer once the Orioles rescinded it because there's no other team offering anything close, it looks like a fleecing. The original offer looked like a fleecing. And then he got offers from zero other teams and there's no logical landing spot for him other than Baltimore and then Baltimore ups their already crazy offer. Really doesn't matter what people on a message board think. There was no way the Orioles were going to lower the offer. He is a popular long term player who they wanted back and want to keep happy. The fact that the Orioles offered a contract and after months of negotiations, Boras got 1 million dollars per year but also had to give up more deferred money. That is a lot of negotiations for mostly nothing. Boras didn't do well in these negotiations.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 11:50 AM) We're good for another couple of thousand posts complaining when he signs elsewhere. no doubt about it.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 10:22 AM) This contract makes literally no f***ing sense. Why not use that $70 million to try to lock up one of their stars (Hosmer, Moustakas, Cain, etc) rather than signing an aging NL pitcher? I don't get it, but more power to them. Because they need pitching and can't afford to pay much. That's why they needed to sign the second tier pitching.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 09:23 AM) The thing is that no one was negotiating against them. He literally got $7 million for no reason. The only reason was that the orioles threw him a bone to save face because they wanted davis back. All of the boras tatics of marketing him as a OF and waiting for months got him essentially nothing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) Even with Davis, they're still short one bat and Chen to compete in that loaded division. It's the equivalent of the White Sox giving six years/$150 million to Cespedes and nevertheless splitting votes with the Indians for second place in the division pre-season. That said, the White Sox would be in a much better spot to compete than the Orioles. None of this makes any difference in the contraat negotiations and what the deal is worth. I was commenting on you saying the deal didn't make sense in relation to what other players may get. That has nothing to do with how competitive other teams may be.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:55 AM) How long before the first "sources say Sox still only willing to go three years" report this morning No kidding. Now is the time sticking to their guns and hard negotiations. There is obviously no teams out there offering big deals.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) It's a huge win by Boras, landed even bigger deal than initially offered. Master play. He waited for weeks, pissing off everyone in the process and still got more than the initial offer. Has nothing to do with saving face, dude just got PAID 1 million dollars per year is technically a bigger deal. But after months of negotiations? He didnt really get anything.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:30 AM) You don't get a lump sum and it's unlikely he makes 7 million in investments in four months when the global economy is spinning from oil. Boras did a tremendous job here. Absent the Orioles, what was Davis market? I wouldn't have guessed more than 20 mill aav I don't see adding 1 million per year after months of negotiations as a tremendous job. It was technically an increase but nothing really.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:31 AM) How can a guy one year older who put up a war last year that beats five out of Davis' last six seasons COMBINED and plays a more important role defensively in terms of outfield assists get close to Mike Leake's deal? Doesn't make sense. Sure it does. He's going back to a team where the fan base loves him and the team really wants to use him as PR boosts. He is not worrth any of that to anew team. A player switching teams doesn't have the same value for him. It's probably not worth that much but remember the orioles iffered this ci tract long before anyone realized there is no money in the market this offseason. The value of a cobtract is not connected to solely his numbers.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 08:09 AM) For a guy with two negative wars, a 1.3 and 1.8 in four of his last six big league seasons, i'd call that a huge victory even if the Orioles were only bidding against themselves. They offered 7/154 months ago. The negotiations probably cost him money if he invested it from the original contract. He went back to the Orioles and said give me 1 million more just so I can say that after months of negotiations I got him a better deal.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 15, 2016 -> 10:28 PM) If I am following you right, that means he shouldn't have any long term effects from this? Correct. As long as the fracture didn't effect the joint, which tibbal fractures it usually doesn't. They usually higher up the lowrr leg. It can happen but its not as common.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 07:56 AM) There couldve been some mystery team pushing the bidding a little, we dont know. And now whoever that team is ..could turn their attention to Cespedes. So the Sox arent necessarily out of the woods on this thing yet. He only got 1million per year more. No one pushing the bidding. It was just negotiations and he got nothing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2016 -> 07:28 AM) http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chris-d...cespedes-011516 That's just an insane contract...and another massive win for Boras Corp. So much for WAR. That's more than the Heyward deal for an older, basically one-dimensional, three outcome power hitter who has led MLB in homers and K's over the last three seasons (combined). "I'm not just referring to how the Orioles and Davis seem to be at something of an impasse. I'm not just referring to how Davis has to this point been unable to drum up much of a market. It's just, this is going to require a lot of money, and it's hard to know what Davis is going to be. He's as much a boom-or-bust player as you can find: Last year, he hit as well as Jose Bautista; the year before, he hit as well as Jed Lowrie. He's been bad and he's been an MVP candidate, and there's a whole lot of space in between. ... And you wonder what else this might indicate. This isn't something that just happens by accident, so Davis has made intentional adjustments. It's not like he's lacking in bat speed, but all-fields hitters tend to be less exploitable. Pull hitters can be easier to work around, and if Davis is gradually losing his ability to drive the ball with regularity to left and center, that could be the beginning of deterioration." It's not a massive win for Boras. He waited on a contract for weeks tried to market him as a OF and got 1 million more AAV. If anything the Orioles let him save face by not dropping the contract.