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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 06:09 PM) The other difference for Illitch is that as a single owner, if he's on average close to breaking even every year, the increasing equity in his team by being a championship contender winds up as increased net worth for him as long as he doesn't lose $50 million every year. The equity increase is nice for an ownership group but they can't cash that out as easily without selling the team. Yeah, that was my point in the previous answer to his problem with White Sox ownership. That's when he said that the primary Sox problem is ownership that won't spend into the red to win.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2015 -> 05:48 PM) And that's what it would take, IMO, to truly change the culture. A completely new ownership group with deeper pockets or a stadium located in a different area of the city. Everything else is just rearranging deck chairs on a sinking ship unless they show the ability to put a consistently playoff-contending team on the field. (That means 75% of the time, not every other season...and not completely whiffing on "all in" or close to it years like 2011 and 2015 at the very beginning of the season). I don't think anyone would argue that an owner who doesn't care about losing alot of money to win would help any team win. However, these are few and far between. even ilitch who you set as an exmple had 13 losing seasons in a row before a winning season and has had 14 losing season in 24 years as ownership. The JR group has done better than that just not in the last 4 which are the tigers only 1st place finishes under this ownership. So an owner willing to go into the negative to win isn't really the answer.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2015 -> 04:13 PM) Old stadium, yes. Now the area surrounding the park is similar, if not better, than USCF. And how many times did Illitch have negative revenues? He's like Cuban....fans perceive he cares more about winning the World Series than his bottom line. That is something his (Reinsdorf's) supporters won't or can't argue. Illitch is an anomaly (a la Steinbrenner), just like the Cubs with their unique situation. They also have a different situation where they own the team and answer to no one. Reinsdorf is a minority owner of the team. He is the Chairman of the Board but that's it. He cannot just spend into negative revenues. It's not his money.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) Haha, fair enough, but I assume those drinks will normally be coming from a bottle in your basement, no? Getting away to Sox games is a way to do it as well, which is why I have weekend season tickets and Bears season tickets. Who am I kidding your right, most of the time it is hiding in the basement.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:53 PM) That makes sense if you assume that White Sox fans tend to be older and therefore less likely to want to go out and drink under any circumstances. Instead of "that's where the money is," what I should have said was, "that's where the money is spent." Hey now. Until you are in the middle of raising teenagers, you don't know what "needing a reason to drink" means.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 13, 2015 -> 12:07 PM) They "won" the dvision. Using the strike as an excuse is fine, but it's still and excuse. 17th in the league in attendance isn't very good for a team that had been very successful, and supposedly had the "new stadium" vibe to go along with it. The fans of other teams apparently were able to put the strike behind them. It's an excuse but I think if you looked at all of baseball it was an excuse that year. It was not a "White Sox fan" excuse. I give all fans a pass that year as everyone was angry with baseball.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:52 AM) Wasn't there a minor thing called a "strike" in those years? Maybe one that knocked down the attendance average in the final year? I'm positive that was a factor in that year.

QUOTE (shysocks @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:35 AM) Once again, capacity is not the key point. I made the point, so I get to determine what the key is. Capacity is a red herring, a side track. I am saying the trends are the key. I guess you can look at it that way. My point was that the Hawks always draw good attendance regardless of record. I just disagree that their attendance went down very much. It definitely did not go down to the extent the Sox do. If capacity isn't the point then the sox actually draw almost as well as the Hawks do so there is no discussion of attendance. The Hawks drew 22,000, the Sox draw 20,000. The amount that each team draws during non-winning seasons is the issue. The trends are that the Hawks do not have as much trouble drawing fans to the stadium during non-winning seasons. The fan base is much more likely to go to games when the team has losing seasons.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:20 AM) So the idea is that if the MLB sent over half of its teams to the playoffs annually like the NHL, Sox Park would have been filled most years during the 90's and 00's? You beat me to it.

QUOTE (shysocks @ May 13, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) First of all, the worst is more like 60% of capacity. Second, you're missing the point by focusing on capacity. The point is the trends, that you see a steady drop from about 1996 on until it went up to constant sellouts for good when they turned things around. There's a direct and irrefutable correlation in that chart between winning and attendance. I think capacity is the key point. The 60% was only for a year or two most of the time it is around 70-75%. It does decrease but not by much. If the Sox attendance only decreased by this amount, people wouldn't have this conversation. Also some of it is in perspective. It is pretty easy to make the playoffs in hockey compared to baseball. So the concept of "winning" is different. If the Sox made the playoffs nearly every year (if half the tams made the playoffs) it may be different.

QUOTE (shysocks @ May 13, 2015 -> 10:33 AM) The very post you're replying to linked to a page showing that to be false. http://www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att...ph.php?tmi=5218 I would disagree with that comment. Even at the worst years of attendance they were at 70% capacity. And this was only for a few years. So the hawks draw at 70% capacity at the very worst. That is pretty incredible.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 13, 2015 -> 10:23 AM) When it happened, I believe Jeff Passan was tweeting about it and he was mentioning multiple sources talking about it looking like an injury that normally happens to children and teenagers. Edit: here are the tweets @JeffPassan: Jarrod Parker's latest injury is very common in children. Because bones aren't fully formed, the UCL literally tears off a piece of bone. @JeffPassan: It's why torn UCLs are rare in 11- and 12-year-olds. The opposite is true in adults. Drilling from multiple TJs can leave bone vulnerable. @JeffPassan: Jarrod Parker's injury is infinite kinds of unfortunate. If he throws another pitch, what an incredible story. No one back from three TJs. @JeffPassan: @kevinfarmermd @injuryexpert So if I'm reading correctly, same ligament is used but bone is repaired? Titanium buttons or another method? @JeffPassan: As this study shows (h/t @kevinfarmermd), Jarrod Parker may not necessarily need a third TJ. Surgery still brutal. http://t.co/srdPJiBxVL that is somewhat accurate. The reason it happens in kids is that there is a growth plate there and the growth plate fractures and cause the avulsion. This case is more like Gavin Floyd or Bobby Jenks where there is a fracture and they will need to put in a pin to hold it together. However, in these cases it was a stress fracture not a full avulsion. A true fracture and avulsion is something unique. It is probably due to the weakened bone after two TJ surgeries. If it is only an avulsion without ligament damage then they will just need to pin it in place. If it's a fracture with ligament damage, he is in trouble. The bone will be really weak.

QUOTE (shysocks @ May 13, 2015 -> 09:53 AM) The Blackhawks are essentially a dynasty at this point and their attendance mirrors what Sox figures would look like if they had two trophies in five years and playoff berths every year surrounding. That's all I'm saying and you know it's true. The Hawks have always had great attendance. It doesn't change regardless of the winning or losing. Plus the stadium is much smaller. The Sox would draw like that with the trophies, for a short period of time. Then it would revert back to normal.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 13, 2015 -> 09:44 AM) And besides the unique/historic nature of Wrigley Field, the Sox brought on a lot of problems themselves with SportsVision...ceding Harry Caray, the respective radio networks, Budweiser, WGN, Sammy Sosa....always beaten in the marketing battle since the days of Rob Gallas. And Reinsdorf always had too much pride to let Mike Veeck help him. Yeah that free vasectomy promotion will go over well in the MLB.

I think this is all due to the poor start by the team. I think they would have preferred him to be in the pen until the middle or end of June and then transition to the rotation so they would have him during the pennant race. They need him there now because they have fallen behind in the standings with the poor start. It will be really interesting to see what they do with him in August/Sept. Do they shut him down or risk the fatigue and injury?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 13, 2015 -> 09:52 AM) A possibility? I could have sworn they said this recent injury, the tendon tore a part of the bone off It's really difficult to have an avulsion of the bone where the tendon attaches and not damage the ligament as well. They attach to pretty much the same place.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ May 12, 2015 -> 04:57 PM) A playoff run is the only situation where I can see them putting Rodon back in the bullpen. Even then, I'd rather have him start and go over his innings limit than go back to the 'pen. Sure then ruin his career and any usefulness he may have for the team for the next 6 years. What's more important this year's playoff run or 6 years of him pitching for the Sox. It will be a significant injury risk. Edit: not to mention he will probably be fatigued and nearly ineffective by that time.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ May 11, 2015 -> 07:04 PM) Random beer topic: If you could only drink products from one brewery for the rest of your life, which one would it be? Assume that you have unlimited access to any/all of their beers that are still being produced and that you can acquire any beer for macro-brew prices. I think mine would be Pipeworks. It may not be my favorite brewery (it's one I buy often but not as much as Three Floyds, Revolution or Ommegang), but they create an insane variety of stuff. Granted I probably won't be drinking their weird s*** like Pastrami on Rye or The Walrus and the Carpenter, but I enjoy their IPA's and their Belgian-style beers (probably my favorite styles). Access is also one of my main issues with them, as I can't always get some of my favorites from them like Citra Imperial, End Boss or North & Western. Right now, it takes me 5 minutes to pick one of their beers and I feel like I'm playing Russian Roulette. New Glarus or Destihl

QUOTE (icroca @ May 10, 2015 -> 09:04 PM) Stretching?? Really?? Yes. What ends to happen is that as the chronic inflammation hangs around, it starts to form scar tissue and necrotic tissue. This is fascia not muscle so it reacts differently to injury. The primary issue here is getting blood to the area. So things like cross friction massage and stretching help. In some cases they get shockwave or topaz treatents which cause microtrauma to the area to increase blood flow and regenerate the area.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ May 10, 2015 -> 03:54 PM) How long of a DL stint would it require? And does playing on it prolong the issue? As long as he continues to play, they are just working on controlling the symptoms. It would be a good month to really heal the chronic inflammatory issues.

QUOTE (Sox Fan In Husker Land @ May 10, 2015 -> 03:27 PM) So far for the season Danish is at 31.33 IP 33 K 8 BB. Not bad for a 20 year old in AA. Much of his success comes from his arm angle and deception against RH hitters. This really shows in his splits. LH hitters have over an 850 OPS against him and are hitting .314. This could pose greater problems when he gets to the MLB.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 10, 2015 -> 06:12 AM) Nothing he can do for it now that will fix it in the short term. It's going to hurt, a lot. Orthotics, US, iontophoresis, stretching, cross friction massage. Many options for the short term. It can last awhile if not taken care of properly.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 10, 2015 -> 12:38 PM) Need Johnson to get back on track today. The velocity has been promising, but his control has been pretty bad the last few starts. Overthrowing?

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 10, 2015 -> 11:08 AM) With Danks and Noesi pitching in the rotation, the Sox are not going to make the post-season. With Rodon in instead of one of them, at least you have a legitimate starter giving the team a chance to win. The Sox cannot afford to "save" him until the end of the season because then the hole they have dug themselves will be even worse. Let him pitch until he hits whatever the inning limit is. That's fine. The is one way to go. You can make the case either way. Just don't get upset when they shut him down during the pennant race.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 10, 2015 -> 11:00 AM) I'm not saying abuse him. But there needs to be a balance of what's good for him and good for the team. In my opinion, monitoring him as they go, 160 in the regular season, and 30 more in the postseason isn't abuse. Alex Fernandez pitched 250 innings as a 20 year old in 1990. That's abuse. You can take that chance. I would not and I don't believe the Sox will. It just isn't worth risking his health and long term use to the club.