ptatc

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 04:04 PM) well, i didn't know the all medical things, but i thought that with the PED, the players throw harder without realizing it. there was another thing i remember, my cuz was telling me of some huge veins or something poping out, something that happens when someone, in that time/era, was on the juice. edit..... i almost forgot.... even Maddox made a snide comment about Prior being on some special milk shake. It really doesn't make pitchers throw harder as strength isn't a direct correlation to throwing velocity. It made have made some difference. It allowed them to throw at the maximum velocity for a loner period of time so maybe it raised the average fastball velocity.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 01:41 PM) while you brought that up, re Prior, what effect would taking PED also have on the arm?? PEDs allow the arm to recover quicker and pitch with a higher intensity more often. The issue is ligaments and capsules such as the shoulder joint and UCL in the elbow aren't built to take that much stress. Thus they may start to break down with the increased workload allowed by the PEDs.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) ptatc, what's your read on the cause of Mark Prior's injury issues and some others who have been lumped in with him as Tom House guys? I've heard a lot of talk about the "inverted W" and more generally the arm coming through late. Is that what you're thinking about in terms of the chief injury risk of that approach? I say this because for a long time I saw a Tom House instructor (and a couple of times the man himself) and I was encouraged to go with what felt natural in terms of arm slot and position throughout the delivery, which in my case meant taking it out low and throwing 3/4. Of course, the arm slot kept dropping as my labrum tear got more severe... Most of the issues I have with Tom and his philosophy revolve around throwing the breaking pitches. He focuses on breaking the wrist. He'll say"move your wrist like you are pulling a string from a light bulb." This is the reason he has pitchers throw a football, to get the wrist to move. That creates stress up the chain, mostly to the elbow. The towel drill also focuses too much on the wrist motion and a violent move with the shoulder. Other things I have issues with is raising the elbows and leg. Raising the front elbow tends to force the pitcher into a backward leaning position thus they are off balance. Raising the front leg too high tends to do the same thing. Raising the back elbow too high makes it tough to get the arm into external rotation before the body starts moving forward. This puts a great deal of stress on the shoulder. It really will stretch out the capsule and create a loose shoulder (this was the issue with Prior, no real injury just a loose shoulder and pain). He does focus on using your natural motion which is good. But some of the changes he brings in with the drills aren't the best for the body physically.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 18, 2015 -> 09:06 AM) Frank Thomas, Shoeless Joe Jackson, Nellie Fox, Aparicio. Billy Pierce and Minnie Minoso might be the best ambassadors the club has ever had, and nicest guys, but can't be the Top 4 IMO. I wouldn't put Harold Baines there over any of the Top 4, either. Ed Walsh, Hoyt Wilhelm, Ted Lyons, Red Faber, Ray Schalk, Eddie Collins and Luke Appling have arguments as well. Carlton Fisk...but didn't play quite enough to be considered more White Sox than Boston. Played more games and years in Chicago than Boston. Ed Walsh needs to be there. Thomas as well then Appling and Fox. Fisk may not because he split teams and the east coast bias will put him with the Red Sox.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 19, 2015 -> 06:24 PM) No, I love teams that play baseball the right way, with energy/excitement and enthusiasm...imposing their will with speed, solid fundamentals and great defense. Energy/excitement is not necessarily "the right way." That is your preference. The second part is true. The other problem that makes the Royals garbage is that they throw at the head of the hitters. I have no problem in hitting a batter if you think it's necessary. However you do it from the waist down not at the head.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 20, 2015 -> 06:33 AM) Any chance he spends a few weeks in the bullpen, then gets sent back to Charlotte to stretch out his arm and joins the rotation in the summer? That would keep his innings down. After being a starter in Spring and the early season he won't need long to get stretched out. My guess would be 3-4 weeks of bullpen then 1-2 starts with an innings limit, depending on how long his bullpen stints are.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 19, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) I normally don't like moving guys back and forth between the pen and rotation, but in this case it makes sense. They want him to get prepared for MLB competition in a relatively safe environment and they absolutely have to keep his innings total relatively low this year. This kills two birds with one stone. Yep. This is the only reason to do something like this. It is the right move.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:43 PM) I won't because I'll actually clarify. No one says relievers don't matter. They DO say that reliever performance is volatile and therefore money can be invested more safely in other areas. That's a huge difference. What's old is people making blanket criticisms based on incorrect information. Don't accuse me of flip-flopping. I'm always open to changing my opinion based on new information and will always admit when I'm wrong, but I don't have any sort of agenda beyond trying to be correct. Sorry , I should not have used the term you. I didn't mean you as the person. I meant to use it as a general term for the SABR and analytics that do say this frequently. The group often says that spending a great deal of money on relivers is a poor way to spend money due to their relative lack of importance. They dont effect the game much as they don't throw many innings and using them at the beginning of the 9th is wrong because the true leverage situations happen when someone is on base. If had this very discussion on this board for a decade. Again I apologize as I didn't mean the you as as a person but as the group. I can't remember if you were actually one of the people in those discussions.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 01:46 PM) So old. I know I am. I think that is sone of the issue. On a serious note, you won't be saying that when reliivers are failing and these stats come out again.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 10:25 AM) Definitely hate goggles. Give me the everyday player. The front end rotation pitcher is more important.

QUOTE (shipps @ Apr 15, 2015 -> 09:40 AM) Why didnt the Yankees keep him? It seems like he would have been the perfect transition into another good run of a closer post-Rivera. Because most of the analytics out there will tell you that a closer can be found anywhere and aren't really all that important. They have the least effect on winning because they don't pitch very much. He shouldn't be pitch the 9th inning anyway because that is not the most leveraged situation in the game. He is really being used improperly this season. (I don't really need to add the green do I?)

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 10:54 AM) Because the pitchers will b**** about it, and the managers won't make them do something they don't want to do. It make sense on paper though, as long as both those guys would be available for long relief as well. This is way off base. The entire sport of baseball is about being confident. The best players in the world are only good 33% of the time hitting and with pitching being able to get the ball over the plate right where you want it is probably even tougher if you quantify it. Even off by an inch in either case can lead to failure. This is the part that people who look at numbers and think they can change the players or the way the game is played are wrong. The players are people and can lose confidence with failure and they deal with a game of failure. If they aren't confident in the situation, the manager will lead them to failure and the job is supposed to be to put them in a position to succeed. If you're boos told you to get up in front of the president of the company and give a presentation on a topic you weren't comfortable with and the entire company was watch, how do you think you would perform? On top of this what if millions of dollars would be awarded if you performed well but you didn't get them if you performed poorly with an topic you has doubts about? If you look at it from a roster stand point, you are guaranteeing that 2 of your worst pitchers will pitch in a game every 5th day. Does that sound like a recipe for success?

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 08:28 AM) Your uncle sounds like a very stable human. Only when it comes to the Sox vs. Cubs. He takes it very seriously. He is 80 now and you still don't call or visit him when they play each other, unless you want to get hit by objects he is throwing at his TV.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 07:07 AM) Dude was my first "favorite" player growing up. The only time I ever lowered my standards and went to Wrigley urinal was to watch him pitch. when I got home, my uncle found out about it, poured charcoal fluid on my shoes and lit them on fire.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 07:43 PM) The asking price for Cole Hamels is going down by the minute. I don't think the focus is quite where it needs to be. He really wants out of there.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 07:49 PM) Yea I'd like to see him get at least 80 innings in AAA before they bring him up. Don't do something drastic as a short term fix when the long term (him learning to command his fastball and work in the change when the games don't count) is incredibly more important. That said, Danks and Noesi -- step it up the f*** up. Especially Noessi, who has stuff but needs to find his release point consistently. Danks isn't working with much and who can blame him. Not much faith in either of those guys but you know whatever if they aren't good they aren't good Rodon's decision is more about him then them -- as it should be. With rodon's motion he most likely will always have inconsistent command. Hopefully they can refine it some.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 04:20 PM) I also think they're going to be leery of having another Strasburg situation like 2012 where they feel they have to shut him down in September because of the elevated number of innings pitched. Most of us guessed somewhere around 22-26 starts and 130-160ish IP. This is a good estimate. If he comes up now, he will not finish out the season. Even if he does hit that mark, he will be fatigued and most likely not as effective for those final games.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 04:17 PM) A quick change in plans is a good thing sometimes. If Rodon has a good start tonight and they feel he's ready, next Wednesday should be his first start. 17 straight games starting tomorrow. Give him two starts in a 6-man, and then decide which way to go. Chances are he'll pitch his way into being in the Sox rotation. Bad idea IMHO.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 04:16 PM) Just don't see that happening...he's going to be stuck in the lower 90's, which is okay. Look at Zach Duke, he doesn't have to throw 96 to be effective, even as a reliever. With the labrum surgery, I doubt he would even have the confidence to consistently amp his MPH up like that anyway. The capsule was more of the issue than the labrum. torn labrum is pretty easy to fix. the capsule not so much.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 04:13 PM) I'd call up Rodon ASAP after tomorrow's deadline and put Danks in the Scott Carroll 2014 role, Noesi is probably the better pitcher now. Though I would've done something like claim Wandy Rodriguez for 5th starter. Then he is done by August, unless the sox have him on a strict per game innings limit.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 03:42 PM) Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 17m17 minutes ago #Nationals Craig Stammen has a torn flexor in his elbow and will require surgery. Doubtful for the rest of the season. I wonder if it's the tendon in the forearm or the insertion near the elbow. Odds are it's at the insertion near the elbow. That's a really odd injury. It will be really difficult to repair and rehab.

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Apr 16, 2015 -> 10:40 AM) Yes. But Q has a knack for playing "his" guys that he trusts, which definitely shouldn't be the case but it's been happening since he got here and has gotten more obvious to this day. Rozy does suck, and is slow, and pretty much is a shell of a former decent NHL player, but in small spurts he's still better than someone like Rundblad( one of the other options) Problem is Rozy plays too much, and gets exposed,like basically all season and specifically yesterday's first goal. Why wouldn't a coach play the guys he trusts the most. It should be the case. I hate to say it but he probably has a better idea of what makes a winning team more than us. As Herb Brooks said, "I don't want the best players just the right ones." (or something to that effect)

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Apr 14, 2015 -> 11:24 PM) AAAA pitchers usually don't have the stuff he has. They do when combined with his control and command.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 14, 2015 -> 01:48 PM) If Bonifacio can only or should only play against LHP, approximately 80% of pitchers are RH, so he should start, if used properly by the experts here, 32 or 33 games a season. If being used properly means you can only bat against 1 or 2 or 3 pitchers on a staff, what a waste of $4 million. don't forget the fact that RV should not allow a rookie to get comfortable by playing him consistently. The focus shouldn't be about how to get the backups the best matchups. It should be about how to get the rookie comfortable in the MLB.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Apr 14, 2015 -> 08:06 AM) So Quintana starts today against Cleveland and Danks starts tomorrow, then there's an off day before Detroit. That means for Game 1 in Detroit, the Sox could preserve their rotation order and go with Noesi, or they could opt for Samardzija on full rest. The upside of giving Noesi the nod is getting everyone an extra day of rest and going into the KC series with Samardzija-Sale-Quintana-Danks. The downside is Noesi starts the first game against Detroit. The upside of skipping Noesi is you get Samardzija-Sale-Quintana in Detroit. The potential downside is that would put both Danks and Noesi in line to start against KC, but that's where things could get interesting. If the White Sox wanted to get really bold and aggressive, they could throw out Shark in game 1 in Detroit, then instead of Noesi starting the fourth game against KC, they could call up Rodon and throw Sale-Quintana-Danks-Rodon at them. I know it's an unlikely scenario, but it would be a really interesting way to work the matchups against the two best opponents in the division and break Rodon into the majors early on if the FO feels he's ready. I think the White Sox will probably start Noesi in Detroit. What would you do? You don't skip anyone early in the season to make sure they can last and be more effective at the end of the season, especially if you think the Sox have a shot at the playoffs.