ptatc

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 20, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) Opening Day was never on the table. If it is the middle of March and the best you have done in 20 months is throw in a simulated game or BP, there is no way you are going to be ready for opening day. Yes. Realistically, it's June at the very earliest probably closer to july. They still need to throw painfree, throw in a game then progress to back to back painfree games. Still not really sure what the injury was but someone reported it was biceps. The typical surgeries involving the biceps would be a labral tear or a bicep subluxation. both can be very tricky for a pitcher.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 05:46 PM) I respectfully disagree. What you know you're getting from Beckham isn't enough, imo, to justify the roster position. The ceiling of Saladino in particular, as a utility player, is higher than Gordo's. If RH's endorsement is to be believed, he's better and more versatile defensively. He's better suited to plug weakness vs. left-handed pitching. He likely has more power, because all of GB's seems to have vanished. He's probably a touch faster. He'll be 26 years old in July - he looks ready. Outside of concern for his injury situation, and GB's under-contract presence, I would really liked to have seen him get his first chance now. But it's no biggie. Gordon could conceivably be decent in the role. I agree. it's just a matter of opinion. But being in MLB locker rooms and watching rookies struggle acclimating to the MLB makes me very hesitant to have any rookie in that role, regardless of how much more talented he may be. That's why you rarely see a rookie like Saladino get the role like Beckham. It's more that mental adjustment than physical. If they are trying to win that mental adjustment for the rookie compounded by the talent of UT player is just too unstable. But Saladino could tear the cover off the ball as well but the odds are against it. That's why bench players are usually failed regulars or older vets nearing retirement.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 10:19 PM) Oh come now ptatc do you really think a guy like me wouldn't know the Outfield isn't rap ? I was just stating that my musical tastes do not include rap when I know a lot of the younger folks on here like it. And saying Abba to Sex Pistols was not an alphabetical list it was variance of musical styling, that soft rock pure pop eurobeat to the maniacally ear pounding anti-establishment declaration of war that scream F you at everything punk rock. Sorry my friend no Zappa but I do have ZZ Top , The Zombies and Zager and Evans . oops left out Warren Zevon . My ipod lists it under W. I figured you would that is why I didn't get the statement. Makes more sense now. I agree with the styling, right up my taste as well. That's why I'm surprised there is no Mothers. Sex Pistols and the Dead Kennedys are better anyway!

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 09:52 PM) My ipod has almost 4000 songs on it and that isn't one of them . Of course I'm also old and picking from about 50 years of rock music. And my musical taste is all over the place from Abba to the Sex Pistols . Sorry rap fans can't stand it It's not rap. It's awful 80's bubblegum pop. By a band from the UK called the Ballboys but changed the name to Outfield for the US. your list is limited by the way. It should go from ABBA to Zappa. No music collection should be complete without some Mothers!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 12:57 PM) I looked it up and you can retro it 10 days, but, assuming Sale comes back from this injury and pitches in spring training games, he can't be retro'd because he is playing. So either they would have to put him on the DL in late March and have him get ready in minor league games or just have him on the opening day roster. The first option makes some sense. Not if it is in "B" games or minor league games. Those aren't "official" games, I believe.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 01:39 PM) Crain got scratched from the minor league game because of soreness, but they aren't worried. Uh, oh. Never a good sign.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) Yet they felt the need to bring him back after shipping him off. Just accept it was a failed draft pick and move on. He's gonna start moving into Roberto Alomar territory. KW always gets his man. I think it's the poster's on this board who can't move on. The Sox know he can be a decent bench player and brought him back. The posters here remember his failure as a top draft pick and can't accept that he could be a decent bench player. Now if he becomes a starter then feel free to rip away. Everyone knows he shouldn't be in that role, hopefully.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 12:33 PM) That's a good point that I hadn't considered. If nothing else, Beckham won't cause any problems in the clubhouse and may actually be an asset in that regard. Still, given we're in win-now mode, I say to hell with Sanchez and/or Saladino's long-term development and go with one of them over Beckham if they're indeed better (which I believe they are). Their ceilings appear to be nothing more than backup utility infielders anyway. Sanchez could possibly be an average or so starter at 2B if everything goes right. If they are truly in win now mode as you say then the last thing you want are unproven rookies as backups. You have now idea what you will get. With a veteran like Beckham you know what you will get. It's not much but you know what is limitations are. With the rookies and lesser talented rookies at that (ceilings of utility) the sox know they will have rookie struggles as well as difficulties adjusting to bench play. Beckham will not have these issues. If they want to win now the Sox aren't going to risk rookie struggles during the season. Both rookies may end of being better than Beckham but they don't want to take a chance this year.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 18, 2015 -> 12:38 AM) Is it without precedence? Saladino would be the absolute 25th man on the roster. So essentially, Tyler Saladino would be replacing Leury Garcia, a guy who started his major league career on the bench with Texas. I was speaking on upside relative to their role. You don't treat Tyler Saladino like you would a 2009 Gordon Beckham. He's ostensibly a prospect but you're not going to worry about reaching his upside. If he could hit league average against lefties then he's a better option than Beckham. He's a better defender and he could pinch run. We know Beckham can't hit MLB pitching but we don't know whether Saladino can. I'd rather we had found out how Tyler Saladino would respond to a small role making the minimum and spend the money where it could better fit the team. I agree with the fact that saladino probably has more talent. Probably only because he hasn't shown it in the mlb. However, I go back to my poi t that he will most likely struggle to get acclimated to the mlb as most rookies do especially ones who don't play much. This will make him less valuable as his play will be below an established player used to this role. So for this season if the sox want a bench player. Beckham is probably the better option. Playing to your capabilities in the mlb is more about the mental adjustments than physical abilities. This is More true for a lesser talented individual. Of course I coud be totally wrong but I think it is the safer way to go to get contributions from a bench player.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 07:37 PM) I'd rather take chances at guys who actually offer upside than going conservative with a Beckham type. He can't hit LHP/RHP, can't pinch run and him being this great defender at 3B is baseless conjecture. The bench has versatility whether they carried Beckham or Saladino. Hahn told me himself the Saladino is the third best SS in the organization and that's behind Alexei and a "plus-plus" fielder in Rondon. So if you like versatility Saladino would better serve your taste. Beckham has barely played 100 innings away from 2B after '09. Saladino hasn't played much away from SS other than 2B (because he's very good at the position, a position GB couldn't cut it at mind you) but has played 1B, 3B and worked in the OF. As far as value, I'll take Saladino at 500K over Beckham at 2 million. I don't know Jason I feel like you're reaching here. When we have to guess on the intangible value Beckham brings it's pushing it. What intangibles does he bring? The ability to be good with the media? The ability to feel much better at the plate every year? The ability to change his stance and hands every few weeks? I'd rather Micah coached up by Eaton who has already been helping him along this spring. If they have upside, you are wasting them sitting on the bench. The will never realize their "upside" sitting most days.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 07:16 PM) While I agree on the first sentence I can't say as much past that. Despite Hahn saying so, it's arguable he is average at 3B defensively and his bat is well below average even when platooned. I am not going to validate giving someone a bench spot based off of them becoming on expert on bunting. The things you mention that make him a decent bench player would hold also true for Tyler Saladino. Saladino is a better infielder (surely on the left side at the least) and a better baserunner/pinch runner than Beckham. I am less confident that Saladino would be a better hitter than Beckham but it's not really much of a bar to beat. If he could hit league average against LHP he'd be a way better bench player than Beckham. While a lot of people aren't fans of Beckham as a player, my biggest gripe is the opportunity cost. We could have had Saladino and a RH defensive OF, strong RH bar or extra 5th starter type. Obviously the bench isn't going to full of all stars, but you want these guys to bring at least one great quality. Jordan Danks was lost with the stick most of the time but I felt great when he came in a defensive replacement. Bonifacio isn't going to carry the offense but he has speed and flexibility. Saladino may never amount to more than 50 MLB PAs but, right now he can come off the bench and pinch run late in games and defend just as well if not better than Beckham. What does Beckham bring? Above average defense at 2B? Color me un impressed. When GMs are building their Championship team they don't pound the phone lines looking for a bench player who can't hit against any type of pitcher and turns a good double play. I don't think anybody has been making this case against Beckham because of his Spring Training stats but those stats have certainly further enforced that argument if you value ST stats. The same people arguing against his utility and practicality (Eminor, shysocks, myself) can be seen doing so on the day he was signed: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...=94456&st=0 Fortunately, to make this move, I think the Sox must think very highly of Beckham as an individual. It's not really a desirable position to be in for him, Gllaspie/Micah/Sanchez or for Robin and the coaching staff. So the Sox front office is definitely giving him a vote of confidence to handle the mental aspect of his assignment. MLB teams rarely take a player with no MLB experience and make him a bench player. The pressure and adjustments to the MLB are tough enough without sitting most days.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 02:28 PM) It's pretty funny I am the one with the Gordon Beckhamobsession when all I am doing is trying to throw sense at everyone ripping him. Apparently that is what this website wants, everyone bagging on Beckham whenever they can. He isn't nearly as bad of a player as most here think. Not even close. But as was pointed out, I wanted the Sox to sign Jimenez last year, so I missed on that, but I also defended one Jose Contreras the end of 2004 until May or so of 2005 when Soxtalk wanted him traded for AJ Burnett. Beckham will be a fine back up. He won't shut anyone up, I get that. He walked the other day and instead of it being a good AB from any other player, it was "lucky" on the gamethread. Of course his nice play with good range turning a DP getting Robertson out of a jam was just about ignored as well. It's a back up infielder. He's fine in that role. People put too much into this. You aren't going to get an All Star to be a back up infielder for $2 million on the open market. I'm with you. He's fine for a backup infielder. I don't get the hate. Is he great, no. That is why he is now a backup. RH probably picked him over other because he knew the team and the team knows he's a good guy and will be fine with being a backup.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) ALAR? It sounds like a biology or chem experiment gone horribly wrong....we can do better!!! The Alar ligament keeps your head from spinning too far. Is that close enough?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 07:48 PM) With this thinking, if you had started a team two years ago with the best pitcher you'd have Justin Verlander now. I'll take my chance on the guy who plays in 160 games rather than the guy who pitches in 33 at most and is a much bigger health risk. I wouldn't have picked Verlander due to the overuse concerns. However, I still pick the pitcher who can have much more of an effect on a game in the playoffs than a guy who if he is really good is only good about 35% of the time. I know it's a different opinion and there really isn't a right answer but you can win the World Series with a mediocre offense. You rarely win with mediocre pitching. You can take a player who builds stats facing below average pitching over a 160 games. But they will not perform as well against the superior pitching in the playoffs. Do you want to look good in the regular season playing the averages (ala Beane) or win in the playoffs.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 07:21 PM) I wouldn't have picked Sale or Abreu either. Why didn't everyone pick Trout? Maybe McCutchen or Kershaw but even then I couldn't take a pitcher. But Swihart, Bryant, Bumgarner? C'mon. It has to be a pitcher. Pitching wins, especially in the post season. you can't win in the post season without top pitching.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 02:37 PM) There are 29 other teams that would line up to get Abreu or Sale, so I really, really don't understand this. The grass is always greener on the other side. People will usually vote for the prospect "because of what he could be" unless it's against a HOF type player.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 02:50 PM) It is weird how it has changed. When I was in HS, I was constantly pressured by coaches to play on the football team, they even had some of my friends who played bother me to play. I played basketball and baseball and the only reason I kept saying no was becasue I was worried about my knees, not my head. These days, it would be the opposite. It is weird how it changes over time. However, at least some of it is because knee injuries are less common due to rule changes. So some of it is good, I guess.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) The research is pretty limited though isnt it, mostly because a lot of the older guys who probably suffered from CTE didnt have the funds or desire to get checked out. Either way, why increase the odds of there being any sort of head or spinal injury to your young child by putting them on a team with some wanna be NFL coach making them do Oklahoma drills before their bodies are mature? It's just stupid. I watch the show "Friday Night Tykes" and its sickening. Already on a pool of 5 or so teams they follow there have been at least 2 SERIOUS head injuries. This is the choice as a parent. How restrictive do you want to be in making your child's choices? There isn't conclusive evidence that would point to one or another. I personally let my son play football, but as you said, I've watched practice closely for safety. The other point that people are making is that the older football players that show CTE also used PEDs. We've seen players like Lyle Alzado have brain tumors somewhat linked to PEDs. So how much is concussions and how much is PED use in these players.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 02:06 PM) Did you watch the PBS Frontline episode on concussions? If so what did you think? They sure offered evidence that the instance of CTE in football players was WAY higher than outside of football. There has been research since then that shows it really isn't. It's higher but not at a significant level. The difference is that there was a similar number but when you look at the % of the population who didn't play football and the % of people who didn't it evened out. There still needs to be a great deal of research. In the clinics that specialize in concussions, they see almost 50% more non-sports related concussions.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Mar 17, 2015 -> 12:23 PM) I disagree. No other sport practices repeated shots to the head and spine multiple times a week. 6 and 7 year old kids are doing oklahoma drills. Its insanely stupid. My boy is playing golf first. This is part of the problem. So far the research has shown the concussion issues are no worse in individuals that have played pro football and those who haven't. There are far more issues in people that have been in car accidents than pro football players. So, it's really difficult to determine if playing football as a child really effects much of anything. Logically, it stands to reason that they have more trauma than someone who doesn't but it's really hard to determine that in later life.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 03:36 PM) Irrelevant. He seems like the kind of kid who's 100% motivated when the lights come on and things count, but, for now, he's mostly working on fastball control. Roughly 85% of his pitches have been of that variety. His velocity's quite good for this early in the spring, the problem is he has no command and his mechanics/delivery just haven't been repeatable. Of course you can't get away with that pitch mix....he needs more changes and sliders, but they're preserving his arm early in the spring from all appearances. I don't know about that. He still throws with an awful follow through with no trunk flexion. I think this is still part of the problem. He reminds me too much of Peavy with his motion. I'm just not a fan of it. I think it is part of the control issue.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 03:33 PM) Seems he's still just working on fastball command. He had Tomas down 0-2 and then hit him with a slider to load the bases, trying to get the K and overthrew it. His fastball has mostly been around 95 MPH, he seems more interested in throw hard to Goldschmidt and Tomas, IMO. Only three three sliders 85-87, none of them were in the zone. MLB had one curveball at 84, but it must have been a slurve or slower version of his sharp slider which is clocking in consistently at 86-87. Yeah, he may be trying to overthrow everything this early on. Hopefully he doesn't hurt himself trying to impress everyone. He's probably trying to show everyone he belongs in Chicago.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 16, 2015 -> 03:31 PM) Yep, looks like his command has been terrible. Good news is his velocity is in the 93-95 mph range. He may be trying to overthrow this early in ST.

It's a good thing too. Rodon looks awful according to game day. Pitches aren't even close. He's doing the Nuke Laloosh line two walks an HBP and then he gives up hits.

QUOTE (3GamesToLove @ Mar 15, 2015 -> 08:35 AM) Yes, the analytical-industrial complex is ruining the game. I think it does indirectly, though the money. It has been a recent trand away from complete games and wins as the pitching standard to quality starts, FIP, xFIP and my personal favorite SIERA. Pitchers are now getting paid by these performance criteria, rightfully so. However, these have also changed to way a pitcher pitches. They now throw more intensely fora ashorter period of time. The quality goes up but so does the intnsity of the pitchng. I've been saying all along and the podcast agreed that the intentional increased velocity more often creates the increased number of injuries. Pitchers are trying to throw harder more often to gets those numbers thus the bigger pay check. You can't blame them but it also causes issues. Pitchers used to pace themselves and throw as hard to conserve thmselves to pitch 9 inings. That doesn't happen much anymore.