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QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 01:13 PM) I'm all for a guy like Shark but not for 1 year. Giving up 2 decent prospects is like 10 yrs or more of control for 1 yr. and JS would have to be extremely good to outproduce productive bench players who might even eventually be starters that you control for a much longer period of time and McCarthy. Decent prospects don't typically amount to much in the MLB. I really haven't seen anything that really makes me think the sox will miss Semien or Sanchez compared to a proven MLB pitcher. They could be decent bench players or a starter in the Beckham mold, but I think those players would be worth the chance of getting JS long term. Besides as I've said I think Rameirez is going to be the center piece of any trade. The A's really don't need Semien or Sanchez. They have better utility/borderline starting prospects.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:58 PM) I have been advocating increasing the talent level also. Having 2 or 3 1.5-2.0 WAR utility players adds great value to a team knowing that in case of injury you have quality back ups. Every trade does not have to be a blockbuster. McCarthy would be just fine ,if we could get him, while we see how Rodon , Bassit, etc. develop . The Sox may want to compete this year but it shouldn't be at the expense of finding out what our very inexpensive prospects will become. No, but if you have the opportunity to acquire a really good dependable starting pitcher, he is worth more than all of those utility players. He will not only produce more but also save the team from over using the lower end of the bullpen. McCarthy, even if healthy will tax the bullpen. You don't give up the farm for JS but you do what you can to acquire him.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:56 PM) The thing that scares me is the Sox are said to be in love with Micah Johnson at 2B. Get a new questionable defensive SS with him, and that up the middle defense, the one decent thing about the White Sox defensively, will become pretty bad. Do you blow off your defense 162 games for the 31 or 32 games Samardjia pitches? They would really need to get a SS who was a plus defensively. I agree. If the trade goes down, they need to look for that really good defensive SS. But with what they gain instarting pitching, I think it's worth it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) Then sign Scherzer. I find it hard to believe that Samardzija wouldn't at least get 6/$130 on the open market, and frankly Scherzer isn't going to cost that much more and then you don't have to give up a player with a name for him. I'll be done now. I just don't think Semien is the right guy for this franchise to give up. I think when it's all said and done. JS will not get the same deal that Scherzer will. If it was even, I would agree but I don't think it will be. Some of it depends on who is traded of course. I'm fine with Rameirez going. I think he is one of the better SS around but for a quality starting pitcher, I would do it everytime.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:49 PM) @philgrogers: Jeff Samardzija-Alexei Ramirez deal makes sense for both teams, provided A's have postseason aspirations. @philgrogers: Not sure White Sox give up Tim Anderson in possible Samardzija rental but could piece SS together in 2015 to develop Anderson in AA/AAA. I need to go home. Everything I've said agrees with Phil Rogers. I'm in a deep state of depression.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 12:39 PM) Then sign Brandon McCarthy. He's slightly inferior and doesn't anything other than money. Those positions may be "easy" to fill but the Sox have struggled filling them for 5+ years now. Their backup plan for LF and RF right now is seemingly a guy who has a sub .300 OBP for his career and has never been regarded as good defensively. If Semien goes, their plan at 2B is a guy whose role on an MLB team should be that of a utility player or a player who has dealt with injuries seemingly every year of his career thus far. Hell, even their 3B is mediocre defensively and absolutely brutal against lefties. Are you telling me that you couldn't see their current options failing and burning the Sox because they have a lack of depth again? At the very least, we know Semien is going to be average to slightly below average at the plate, and I think there's a strong chance he's way better than that. Trading a talented kid because the positions he plays are "easy to fill" is the reason the Sox haven't made the playoffs in 6 years and have only done so twice in the last 15 years. He is more than slightly inferior, especially considering the health issues. JS has been in the 200 inning range every year as a starter. If you sign McCarthy you better have quality starters waiting.

QUOTE (SnB @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 07:43 AM) Isn't that the entire for profit college industry? Unfortunately, it's not just for profits. Many state universities will accept are larger number of questionably qualified students as freshman, knowing many will drop out for a number of reasons. 1. It brings in extra tuition and freshman classes are big lectures with TA lab sections where grad students make alot less than the tuition. 2. It makes the university look good for the state and thus can get more dollars from the state based on the Fall credit hour count. 3. It makes the university and state look good because "they didn't just look at grades and exam scores" when they admitted students.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:48 AM) It's been brought up several times that running such a system would be problematic when trading and bringing in new players. I can't help but think that this will end up not being an issue by taking a look at football. 3-4, 4-3, cover 2 defenses don't use players interchangeably across schemes (nose tackles, DEs, OLBs), and it still works because the player pool is so vast that while you are limiting your options, you still can find people to fit your scheme. The biggest trouble comes at the point where you decide to switch schemes and need to overhaul personnel. Being the trailblazer of a new scheme is very risky from the standpoint of minimizing your margin for error with your bosses simply because you deviated from the norm. However, if you find a scheme that places value on skills and traits that aren't valued in traditional schemes, suddenly you're tapping a talent pool with no competition to drive up cost. The essence of Moneyball. Victory goes to the bold my friends, not the cautious trend followers. Some of the issues you discuss in football are philosophical differences based on physical attributes. A 3-4 nose tackle is physically different than a 3 technique in a 4-3. A cover 2 safety has different physical attributes than a team that uses primarily cover 1. In baseball pitching is pitching. Much if it is mental but it's also physical and the attributes are similar. People are always trying to exploit some of these tendencies such as a groundball pitcher in a small park but these are more team specific not an over all deficiency. Out of the box thinking is always good to try to get advantage but so far in the post-PED era it looks like the best pitching wins.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) Yeah, I think that's what he'll probably do regardless. But when you look at our system, it seems like it's either Anderson or an underpay, IMO. That's why I think the deal will involve Rameirez if it's done. The A's need a shortstop this season. They have top SS prospects.

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:24 AM) "Do they Know It's Christmastime?" is not John Lennon. It's a British celebrity song from the '80s. "So, This Is Christmas" is John Lennon. THANK YOU. I knew Do they know it's Christmas Time was the compilation song for charity but couldn't for the life of me figure out the Lennon tune. I was determined not to look it up and try to think of it but never did.

Been awhile since anyone added, so I'll do it.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) This is what I think, too. I just can't see this deal happening without it being nonsensical for one of the two sides. Either we give up way too much for a short term gain, or the A's take way too little for a good #2 starter. Is there a scenario where Beane "gets something rather than loses him for nothing at the end of the year" and acquires another pitcher by another means?

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 7, 2014 -> 11:16 PM) I'm hoping for Brandon McCarthy and a trade of an OF. Sale-Quintana-McCarthy-Rodon-Noesi/Bassitt could be a really quality rotation. That's a very solid 1-3, Noesi and Bassitt battle in the #4 and #5 spots until June when Rodon comes up, winner takes the #4 spot, loser takes long man job. I could definitely live with that if Hahn can get us an impact OF bat. Rodon will not be pitching a full MLB year so figure that into the equation.

QUOTE (Rooftop Shots @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:49 AM) Well, I may be way off base, but if we do get another front line right hander for a starter, what good would it do, if we are just going to go through what we did last year. We are not going to have a Baltimore Orioles rotation from 1971 that will have a total of 71 complete games. I do believe that Petricka and Putnam experienced growing pains, but still will not have the (&*&%^&'s) to be able to be "lights out" "Game over" closers on a consistent reliable basis. So, if if overpaying someone like DR is not done...the what confidence will fans have if we go into games with a lead late in the game and still have second raters at the end?. Then the question begins.......Do we really want to win with "just hoping" with some "grit your teeth and bear it" "get by-ers" or do you want to help solidify the rotation by giving it a lights out back end? If not Robertson, then who else for 3-4 years to go along with the starters that are locked up for years to come? Could it be Montas?? If so, if winning NOW is our objective...how long do we wait on him? Don't know much about him, so maybe someone can shed some light? At least in theory, another top starter would allow RV to use the bullpen less. Thus, he would go to the lesser bullpen arms less frequently. Part of the problem last year was that with the down year of the rotation the Sox used the bullpen alot more, which is never good.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:49 AM) But of course, that makes no sense for the White Sox, even if we get back a "High level prospect" in return, because we're trading for a "win now" pitcher on a 1 year deal and then leaving ourselves with a gaping hole at shortstop with literally no one ready to fill it. No one can tell me that having either Semien, Sanchez, Tim Anderson, or Saladino as our #1 starting shortstop in ST next year looks like a competitive, could win the central division roster. Ditto any "SS Prospect" Beane is willing to give up - if he had one ready he wouldn't trade or Alexei. That would leave the White Sox deciding whether to spend money on Jed Lowrie, Stephen Drew, or Asdrubal Cabrera to fill that SS hole. In other words, we'd commit $10 mil next year to JS, another $5-$10 mil next year to a veteran shortstop, we'd upgrade the rotation but we'd downgrade the offense and the defense while giving up a year of team control for the key piece. That could make sense for an 87 win team again, but we're right back into "Why are we doing this" territory to me without an unreasonable, unexpected, long-term discount on the pitcher. I could see it as one more year of a guy they would plan on getting next year. Hahn is using the rental year to convince him to sign in the offseason. So it isn't guaranteed he will sign but a calculated risk. This is all predicated on the fact that Hahn is convinced the one of the prospects can handle SS defensively at the MLB level or he is working a deal with one of the vets. The reason to do it is get another top prospect from the A's system.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:39 AM) I wouldn't either, and I can't fathom why Billy Beane would give up Samardzija for less than that. Giving up a top 50-ish prospect in MLB for a pitcher like Samardzija should actually make sense for several teams around baseball. Just not the White Sox. From his perspective, if he thinks one of his top SS prospects is 1 year away, he could get Rameirez on a two year deal and flip him after one. He needs to trade for a MLB ready SS as he doesn't have one. This is why I think Rameirez will be in the deal if it happens.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 08:14 AM) I can't come up with parameters of any deal that makes sense for the White Sox to my eyes unless Samardzija gives the White Sox a large hometown discount that he wouldn't give the Cubs. Otherwise, moving anyone of even minor value from the White Sox's system for Samardzija seems silly to me and a much worse option than going and spending that huge, 9 figure money on someone like Shields or Scherzer. The only way I see it as a good deal is if other players come to the Sox with him. For example the sox send Rameirez and Semien and the sox get JS and one of the top SS prospects they have plus another lower tier prospect.

QUOTE (Tex @ Dec 7, 2014 -> 08:33 AM) Losing always sucks Must happen occasionally.

QUOTE (dmbjeff @ Dec 6, 2014 -> 11:49 PM) I would pitch my traditional closer in the 1st inning against the best hitters, 1-4. Then your usual 7th inning guy in the 2nd or 3rd and then 8th inning in the 3rd or 4th to again face the 1-4 guys, etc and then bring in the traditional starter around the 4th or 5th and have them close it out. Now if you are down big early, maybe you don't bring in the good starter later and just give him the day off and go with a usual long reliever guy. By having your SP type guy get skipped on those occasions you are losing, it allows for your best 4 usual SP to get the bulk of the work and the usual 5th SP type often would probably get skipped which would lead to better pitchers out there typically. If your traditional closer needs a day off, you just bump everyone up an inning to get your typical bullpen guys their rest. The problem with this scenario is that your bullpen guys must pitch everyday. When do you decide to put the mop up 12 pitcher from the pen in the game. Even the most durable relievers pitch in only 100 games, most in the 80 range.You are essentially throwing those game knowing you will lose. This will not go over well with the players or the fans.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 6, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) The Yankees are going to go with a purely defensive shortstop, to replace Jeter. In trading for Gregorius, they have pretty much decided to accept the fact that SS will not provide any significant offense. That approach would be fine with me, as far as our Sox go. I really still don't know just how good Alexei is defensively, at this point in his career. We have gone round and round on this board, and I don't sense that there is any consensus. Let me ask the question this way; If the Sox could fill another major hole, by trading Ramirez, is there anyone who could fill his shoes, defensively? A few of you seemed to think that Saladino is the best defensive SS, who is reasonably close to Major League ready. That surprises me, as I didn't think that he was more than an average SS. L. Garcia is supposed to be pretty good with the leather, but his offense is pretty much a "black hole". Although scouting reports say that Diaz is a good defensive SS, with a very good arm, everyone here completely dismissed the notion that he might get regular playing time, if Alexei is traded. Semien is not a plus defender, and Sanchez is much better suited for 2ND. I'm interested in this issue, because it still seems quite feasible that the front office could view Ramirez as one of their only good trading "chips". With all of the middle infielders this organization has, it's pretty disappointing if none of them are good enough to fill the hole at SS, that would be created by the departure of Alexei, especially if we are only talking about a really good defensive SS, with little consideration to offensive production. If the Sox could acquire a middle of the order bat, for that last outfield spot, is it really that important if they get much production out of SS? The Yankees don't seem to mind going that route, and they have bigger shoes to fill than the Sox would, if Alexei left. He's been good, but he isn't the icon that Jeter has been in N.Y. We all know that Jeter was not really a very good defensive SS, in recent years. Nevertheless, it is N. Y. and they are replacing a "legend" with a no hit, defensive wizard. I agree. If Alexei goes, it should be the best defensive option available especially if Hahn continues to acquire groundball type pitchers.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 6, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Don't speak Spanish in this thread. Falsch!

QUOTE (LDF @ Dec 5, 2014 -> 08:33 PM) i really respect your knowledge and general overall skills. however, i will take this with a grain of salt. i really didn't believe it when it was posted before and i still don't. it reminds me of spinning a bad situation. but then again, what the hell do i know. This was just from what was reported and I'm taking at face value. KW said from about 2007 on that eventually they would do a complete rebuild when they thought the time was right. At tgat time he said that they still had a number of veterans performung well and they didn't feel it was time. Thus is not some i side knowledge, just quotes from KW.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 6, 2014 -> 11:44 AM) Thanks for posting. I see the last few weeks serving as the Sox checking the market and doing a cost-benefit analysis of what they have and what they can get. I expect one "major" trade probably filling the OF need and maybe one smaller move like a relief pitcher. I'm going with the major trade will be to acquire pitching probably a starter although not necessarily a mlb veteran.

Cinco cerveza fria por favor

QUOTE (black jack @ Dec 6, 2014 -> 10:12 AM) WITCH! BURN HIM! Actually it's the opposite. While I don't like the idea of throwing the side sessions in games on a regular basis. I think his idea of throwing more(but with lesser intensity) would benefit pitchers.