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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 09:39 PM) I'm not even sure giving up what could be an elite closer in Montas for Samardzija is a good move, because you tack on $10 million in spending and you're left with only $10-15 million more for LF and the bullpen. (Of course, we'd have to spend that money anyway on a FA pitcher if we're really serious about competing.) It definitely makes the White Sox competitive in 2015. The problem is that they would still be at least two players away and mortgaging the future for a player they might at best have a 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 chance of re-signing. Seemingly, they have to target a pitcher they're going to control for a minimum of two and maximum of 4 years, as I don't think we'll see them go five years with a pitcher any time soon. (This is where a James Shields COULD make sense, but at $70-75 million for 3 years sense? Probably not.) The draft pick compensation isn't SO helpful either, because his impact might not even be felt until after that competitive window has already closed. I wouldn't trade Anderson, Rodon or Montas. On the fence with Hawkins (for the same reason they're holding out hope with Viciedo, POWER). I'd be okay with anyone else going, including Semien, M.Johnson or Danish. Wait a minute. I thought relief pitchers were not worth worrying about because they throw too few innings to truly make an impact. Isn't that that sabermetric view?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) Exactly This idea that the Sox should overpay because they may extend him is inane. That rarely happens. Money talks. Sox are in no position to do rents anyway, including renting the most elite 2/3 starter imaginable, the Shark. I believe most people agree that the sox should not do the deal unless there is an extension in place. Unless the deal is for lesser prospects.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 08:48 PM) Amanda by Boston. Absolutely love that song. I agree. so instead I'll say Sweet Melissa by the Allman brothers or Peggy Sue/Cindy Lu (depnding on your favorite version) by Buddy Holly

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 07:04 PM) I believe they both have had 2 TJ opps. I would not offer much th en. The esearch is not favorable with pitchers that have had more than one surgery.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 03:25 PM) Well, Jeff Keppinger is one, but the White Sox already did that one. They could also buy 2 million $2 cheeseburgers and fill the dugout, but they'd go bad before they could get eaten. Bring back Carlos Castillo. He'll take care of them. He is working with Eddy Alvarez anyway.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 1, 2014 -> 06:21 PM) That is operating under the assumption that the White Sox don't extend him and make him part of the 3 headed long term plan for the rotations. No. Long term plans can only include young minor league players. Locking up a rotation like that would not benefit the Sox for the next 4 years.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 1, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) I don't disagree with any of this, and frankly none of these would deter me from signing those players given the right circumstances, just that those "MLB pitches thrown" are misleading as hell. Just because a guy hasn't thrown a lot of pitches in the MLB because he came up late or started in the bullpen doesn't simply negate the effect the previous pitching experience has had on his arm. Frankly, some of those pitches were "saved" when he was throwing out of the bullpen, but those pitches don't include side work or warm up sessions nor does it include the ramped up intensity of those innings. Samardzija seems like he has smooth mechanics and he was arguably better in the 2nd half than the 1st half last year (which has been a concern), but there are a lot of other things worth considering here. Personally, I wouldn't give up Anderson nor Semien for him, but I absolutely love both players. I'd give up any other minor leaguer in the system eligible to be traded for him at this point. I just don't think trading Anderson or Semien bodes well for the long-term health of the organization because it seems to be that those two both provide very good value long-term in multiple different ways. The side work and warm ups really fall into the less stressful category. I don't really think they make much of a difference. a great deal of warming up and sitting down only to warm up again would do it though.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 1, 2014 -> 11:52 AM) I just want to note how much I hate these types of statistics. This acts as if Samardzija's arm is fresh and young despite his age. Between college, the minors, and the pros, Jeff Samardzija has thrown over 1,500 innings. Are they going to be saying the same thing about Jake Arrieta in 2 years too when he's "only" thrown 12,000 pitches? Because between college, the minors, and the pros, he's already thrown 1,269 innings. I mean, if you looked at this and solely this, you'd assume that Lester has throws more than twice the number of innings. In reality, he's thrown fewer than 600 more. Max Scherzer has only thrown 100 more innings. Just because a guy has only thrown in the MLB for so long doesn't mean there isn't extra mileage on his arm. This is true to an extent. However, there is something to be said for the number of stressful pitches thrown. As someone cliombs the ladder from high school to college to the pro levels the competition increases and so does the quality of pitches they must throw. This will wear on the arm just like warmup throws are different than game situation. The same applies for the regular season vs. the post-season.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 30, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) As I have stated; if that's the price, then I am not in favor of the trade. However, we don't know the price. I'm making a conceptual argument, which is that getting a given player, signed to a long term contract, is not necessarily desirable. It depends on the years, and the annual salary, as well as the players worth. In this case, if Samardjiza had already been extended, and were to get 5 years and $100 million, would that make him more, or less, desirable? The answer for me is; less desirable, because I would not want a 30 year old, #2, or #3 starter, signed to a 5 year contract, at $20 million per year. I would give up less to get that contract, than I would to acquire him for one year, at the very reasonable rate of $8 or $9 Million, because I view the former as undesirable, and the latter as desirable. The risk of injury has to be a significant consideration. If it were my team and my money, I would be just as apprehensive about such contracts as Mr. Reinsdorf. I hate to say it but the 20 mil is about the correct going rate for a pitcher of his caiber. The sox to do a deal lije this or trade much more to get a younger as talented pitcher. Right now they hust don't have the rotation.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 30, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) Yeah, today is still part of the weekend, so Benson can still be right regarding his tweet from couple days ago. I'd still love Shark and Upton on this team. I'd give up Anderson for that. If anything it sounds like oakland wants Upton and gattis. So if Samardzija goes to the sox and those two to oakland, what would the sox need to send to atlanta?

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2014 -> 06:55 AM) yes i agree with you except not at the expense of emptying the farm system. there are other options such as free agency. The proposed deals aren't emptying out the farm system. It's trading one of the best milb players, which is usually what it tales.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 11:39 PM) Yea I'm okay with trading Anderson too...for lots of young talent. Not 1 year rents and not for mediocre and declining veterans. I'll pass on another Ken Williams 86 win team with a stripped out farm system. Trading him for 1 year of Shark to grace the Sox with his greateness is laughable. That process will keep the sox a mediocre team. Eventually you will need to acquire proven players.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 07:37 PM) I assume nobody is ok with Anderson being traded - is that a fair summary of the previous 43 pages? I'm ok with it, depending on the deal.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are asserting here. If after this season, we do not have to pay Samardjiza the kind of long term contract that has been speculated here to be around $18 to $20 million per year, why is it such a daunting task to find another pitcher, if the Sox should need one? Perhaps they won't need one, but if they do, there should be a capable arm, obtainable for that kind of money. Sure, if he signed for 3 or 4 years, at the same $10 million that he is likely to be awarded in arbitration, that would be great. But, that's not a realistic expectation. My point is the sox need a pitcher to upgrade their rotation. So they have to pay one of them. Scherzef and lester will get more than js. I would rather pay him than any of the others available. So its worth it to trade for js and his extension.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 06:18 PM) Some of you gentlemen continue to insist that there has to be an "extension on the table," in order for this potential trade to make sense for the Sox. Perhaps, I'm just not articulating the point clearly enough, or I'm simply mistaken, but I don't see such an extension as a benefit to the Sox, because that contract extension would be very expensive. Let me try to state it another way. At approximately $10 million, Samardjiza is a very cost effective #2 starter. At the estimated $20 million per season, with the long term risk, always associated with long term contracts for pitchers, he would not be cost effective, much less a bargain. The fact that he only has one year, fortunately makes it feasible to acquire him, without having to give up the farm. I see all of this as advantageous to the Sox. Take him for one year, let him walk, take the draft pick and the money, and go back to work in the next off season. In other words, I want him for one year, at $10 million. I don't want him for 4 years and $80 million. Doesn't that make sense? The problem with this is that the sox will have a weak rotation and won't win unless they acquire someone. Any good pitcher will get that deal. So do you get js who is cheaper than scherzer or lester or get the other lesser talented pitchers. The sox need to upgrade the rotation if they hope to win.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 02:06 PM) Yeah, we're on the same page here with the problem being there really is no precedent. I can't really think of any windows to sign in a trade from recent history. Considering how the Sox operate it is much more of a possibility than with other teams. This has happened before. I remember the window being 72 hours. This team has 72 hours to reach an extension withthe player before the trade is approved. I can't remember the players but I remember the scenarios discussed in the media.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 01:59 PM) But if Samardzija is willing to sign an extension with the Sox does that entitle the A's to a better return? They own one year of Samradzija's rights so that is what we would be trading for. I am inquiring, but I really don't think that's something that would allow for a larger/more talented package going to Oakland. It would be nice...if only Samardzija was willing to strong arm his boss for the Sox's best interest. It does because I don't think oakland has to allow the sox to negotiate with him.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) And that's where Anderson does come in play. It makes sense.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 12:21 PM) I'll believe that when I see it. I haven't seen an instantaneous trade/sign in 40 years following this team (Garcia is the only one who was close - he signed later that year) although I remember several when the Sox were "assured" he'd sign. Richie Zisk had a dream, after all. And regardless, the Sox should pay the value of 1 year of a #3 starter. No more. That attitude is fine but then you are Ron Schueler as a GM.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 12:13 PM) I agree. They talk about his background. He doesn't have the "miles" on him most do at his age, but there are guys who are younger with a lot less "miles" than he has currently that are done or in the process of being done. It can go at anytime, although with some of these guys, you have to like their chances of staying fairly healthy. Maybe he is one of them. I do remember Alex Fernandez. He is one guy the White Sox were willing to go really long term on back in the days they were going 3 years max and they mentioned his mechanics. I think his agent was Boras, so it didn't work out. He blew out in Miami pretty quickly. Some of it can be miles. However its really more the age. As you get older the blood flow decreases throughout the body. The rotator cuff is in a vulnerable position due to the way it turns down from the scapula to the humerus. This is why it is such a common injury . In this deal if you want proven pitching you need to give up quality.

QUOTE (staxx @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 12:07 PM) I'd make the trade as long as it doesn't involve anderson or adams. My only non-trade would be rodon. Maybe adams.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) With pitchers, you never know. That's true at any age. It's the nature of overhead athletes.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 11:38 AM) #spacebarfail Oh yeah.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 11:33 AM) Maybe Barreto would be part of the trade, if this is even something. Or maybe even Lawrie. Lawrie seems like the type of player the White Sox would have been coveting. This sounds familiar.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) You don't trade a consensus top 100 prospect for a one year rental starting pitcher unless he signs an extension. Even with that, I would be pissed I think. Give me Samardzija and Upton, different story. Gotta give to get. No I don't. But I admit I'm not as high on prospects as many others are as I think they bust as much has they become stars. Again this is only if the sox get an extension. I would not do it for the rental. Sale, Q, JS. Is a top of the line rotation Edit:wow that was bad typing from my tablet as I am at my daughter's dance e classes.