ptatc

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 24, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) Headed for Eugene, Oregon for a wedding on 4th of July weekend. Any recommendations gladly accepted! Mesa Verde is great, but be prepared for the fact that you can no longer walk around in some of the bigger structures anymore because they were wearing down too quickly with all the abuse. Still can see them all, and walk in some. If you want the cooler experience with those, find a way to get off the heavily used trails. Get out further into the backcountry, where there are lots of other archaelogical sites left open for exploration. It just means you need to be able to walk a lot farther. Also, you can get a similar experience in Canyon De Chelly or Chaco Culture with a LOT fewer people, if you are willing to drive an extra couple hours. Thanks for the insight. Is there a specific trail or direction for the other sites? That sounds like the way to go.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 24, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) Some of those things have nothing to do with capitalism. Ill comment on those that do. 40 hours a week, your choice, your life. Overtime, employer decision. Safety standards, thats why we have lawyers for negligence. Pollution standards, same as before, you pollute, expect to get sued for damages. Minimum wage, you should have the right to work at any price you want. Taxes of course are part of capitalism, they are thoroughly discussed in Wealth of Nations. None of these still answer the problem of the under 14 year old group that started the conversation. These will not be part of your scenario. The economy needs the migrant workers for the farms and factories for the lower wages that most Americans wouldn't live on. There's no doubt about it. However, it goes back to the same discussion about the "foundation" of immigration you've spoken about. It's sounds like you've read and understand the history of immigration in the US in the late 1800's and early 1900's. If so, you know about what a crime ridden areas were where immigrants gathered together to live. It dramatically increased crime rates, murder was so rampant that pauper graves were made on public islands because the government couldn't find enough room for them. We've made alot of strides in the standard of living since then and if you open the borders again with no control history shows that crimes will dramatically increase in areas where immigrants gathers.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 09:15 PM) lol Right, instead of arguing legitimately, lets just say "if you wont donate every ounce of your time to a cause" its not worth it. Its sad that this type of inane comment is applauded. Your money? Its OUR money. Never forget that. The US govt spends money on stupid s*** I dont agree with every day, I dont say "if you believe that we should stop immigration you only get a say if you are in border patrol" or if you want to invade iraq I dont say "you cant say anything unless you join the army." But thanks for that insight, really ground breaking. Look I get it. It seems better if we put up a fence and keep the undesirables out. But giving your position all of the benefits, it is at best a push economically. And im not denying people the opportunity to have freedom and everything I believe in over a push. It's only a push if they truly come here and work. This is what needs to be basis of any immigration.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 09:08 PM) I think Spencer Adams gave up more hits in the first inning tonight than he did his entire high school season Welcome to pro ball, son!

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 08:14 PM) Children wouldnt be coming here alone if we allowed their parents to legally immigrate with them. Most parents dont send their children away to foreign countries unless the situation is extremely dire. I disagree. If you want to come to America, follow the laws, you should have a chance. Just like the rest of us. The country isnt full, we have plenty of space. The arguments against are based on the idea that an American is deserving of more, just because they were born in America. It completely turns a blind eye to our history, to the very essence of what it means to be an American. America is nothing more than a hollow shell if we prevent others from having the same freedom and opportunity that we claim to espouse to the world. I agree. There is plenty of room. More people should come, live and contribute to this great country. The key being contribute. The price of living here to pursue the dream of a better life, is to pursue a better life not to sponge of the country and contribute nothing. There should be ways to monitor this. The parents should be allowed to immigrate if they prove they will contribute. I don't know about you but I would never send my under aged child away. Not until I was sure they were old enough to reasonably take care of themselves. I have a friend who at the age of 12, jumped the Berlin Wall with two friends. One of them was gunned down the other two made it. If you have the guts to do that you are old enough to take care of yourself.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 08:50 PM) Yeah, he's playing better but where has the power gone? He hit 8 HRs last year in like 200 ABs. That's what happens when you try to raise the AVE. The power drops.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 08:26 PM) Hawkins 2 run triple. As bad as Davidson has been, he's still going to hit 20 homers. That's what happens when you swing for the fences all the time.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 07:48 PM) I know its tough to do, but I think we need to skip Sale's next turn up in the rotation. The continued over use of him by Ventura has caught up with us and the extended rest is needed. He has not been overused. However, as stated earlier with his histroy pushing back starts a day or two coming up, not skipping starts, would not be a bad idea.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 07:31 PM) Ilya Somin makes the libertarian case for open borders http://openborders.info/blog/immigration-a...itical-freedom/ I don't necessarily disagree with it. Although I would have a couple of conditions. 1. Like Australia, you must prove you have enough money to get home before I allow you in. 2. Like most of the EU and Canada, you must show either that you have employment or have skills that are needed. 3. Be tracked to show you have employment at a reasonable time. I'm all for more people if they are a productive part of the society, as I think it was Soxbadger stated.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 07:04 PM) I know you disagree with the philosophy, but I really hope they start limiting his pitch counts if this team continues to slide. He's not looked nearly as sharp in 3 of his last 4 games now. I disagree with a strict pitch count in a given game. However, given his history I would definitely skip a start every now and then for the same reason. Edit: let me re-phrase that. It came out wrong. I would give him a few extra days between starts every now and them to give him a true break. Limiting him by 15-20 pitches in starts will not have the same effect.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 07:03 PM) Abolish all national borders, artificial restrictions on the free movement of people. Are there any laws in this country of Pangea to which you refer? If so, can I make them?

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 06:29 PM) Chris not fooling them do far Is this the game where all of the scouting reports abut Sale throwing alot of change ups catches up to him? They've figured out that it is coming instead of the slider and since it's his 3rd pitch, they can kill it?

QUOTE (Tex @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 06:15 PM) And just like our debate here, the children are caught up in this problem. I don't think Alpha would turn away an 8 year old on his doorstep asking for help. But it is easy to say no to a faceless illegal out to screw America. This is a problem. However, when is enough enough. Is it a single 8 year old or a dozen of them. As alpha said, I wouldn't turn them away. I would help them until I had a chance to get them to the authorities. It's tough enough to raise the ones I brought into the world and for which I am responsible. I've worked with a number of legal and illegal immigrants from factories and the labor force. Many of them work here earn money and go back home to live like kings for the winter. As long as people contribute there isn't a problem. It's the ones that live of any taxpayer money with which I have the problem.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 05:53 PM) Jenks, It would take a lot of time and effort to explain while lower wage workers actually would increase the wages for regular so I will try and explain the most simplistic terms: The entire idea of free market is that if someone will work for $7.50 a business should be able to hire them. The problem is once you start creating artificial floors you decrease the demand for labor. If I have to pay workers $7.50 an hour, I can hire 4 workers instead of 1 at $30. Economics suggest that is the appropriate business model, unless the 1 worker is worth 4x the other workers. It doesnt screw anyone. If you are worth $30 an hour, you will make your $30. But if you are not as good as someone who will take 25% of your wage, why are you deserving of more? That breaks the entire system and the result is manufacturers/etc moving to other markets where the cost of labor is cheaper. I didnt read the whole paper, but this Cato article has some of the reasoning behind why most people are backwards on immigration: http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/file...pdf/tbp-032.pdf This would be true if the people were coming here to work. In the example here, I believe al lor most of them are children under the working age. These are not workers thus will not add much to the economy but will take from it.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) Obviously not baseball related but is that the same spray they use at the World Cup? Pretty useless there too I take it? It is. However, you will see it used outside the US because ice is not as readily available. They don't use ice for much of anything.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) Back 15-20 years ago, every time a guy fouled a ball off his foot or was hit in the hand by a pitch, a trainer would spray him with some sort of freezing agent. How come they don't do that any longer? Because they found out that it was just a topical effect and the effect of the cold did not reach down to where the injury was. The effects of cold that really help the injury are to slow down the inflammatory process. The topical modalities numbed the pain a little but didn't do much else. Plus it's cheaper to just have the ice or cold packs handy.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) It has lead to "blow ups" twice this season. I have been Danks biggest fan here but I'm sure those games will pop up now and then, but I think more oten then not he'll be what we saw his last 5 starts. His velo, I believe is about the same as it was last year, I just think he's "learned how to pitch", and that is making the difference. You mean every now and then he'll have a bad game? I'll live with that from any pitcher.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 11:23 AM) I was watching the game last night and he was cruising until that pitch... after you could see how swollen his arm was, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was something going on in there that caused it to break when he threw the pitch. I've just seen pictures and written description but it looks nasty.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 11:17 AM) Joel Zumaya's most significant injury was a separated shoulder resulting in AC Arthrosis (which I have and it SUCKS). Was never able to throw a ball again. As highly doucherous as he was, I will always "respect" him for how he injured it.... evacuating his parents from their home that was under threat of wildfire. After looking it up, his career was ended by a non-displaced fracture to his olecranon that needed a screw for stability. They decided to replace the screw which means that healing did not occur properly and may have been misaligned, which could explain why he never recovered properly. That really is more of the stress fracture that I was referring to unlike Floyd's that is obviously displaced.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 11:00 AM) Guess I don't see eye to eye with you guys on this. The telling situation was when KW went to JR with two plans one year (I can't remember the year). He said there was a plan to increase the budget and continue to go for it and another to begin the re-tooling process by beginning to trade the veterans, cut the MLB budget and start investing in the minors. According to the articles, JR chose the increasing the budget plan. It is an organizational philosophy and the whole organization was in on it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) Tom Browning as well, but pretty rare. Right. These were all humerus fractures, none in the olecranon/ulna.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 10:31 AM) He had a tumor in his humerus that needed to be frozen and removed. So his arm was weakened to begin with. The other one that comes to mind is a pitcher for the Marlins and Angels, I think. Was it Joe Saunders or Tony Saunders. Something like that. Others have had stress fractures like Bobby Jenks and had screws inserted to strengthen them but not true displaced fractures like this one.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 10:17 AM) Dave Dravecky is the only thing that comes to mind. He had a tumor in his humerus that needed to be frozen and removed. So his arm was weakened to begin with. The other one that comes to mind is a pitcher for the Marlins and Angels, I think. Was it Joe Saunders or Tony Saunders. Something like that.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 08:29 AM) (I loved Kenny Williams and everything he did and continues to do, but if you think he and Hahn would have had this same vision towards the future, you're motherf***ing crazy) I think Hahn and KW are very similar and would do very similar things. KW always said that there was a time when the Sox were going to have to re-tool and start trading veterans for prospects. However, with what he deemed the core players still doing well he was sticking to the "go for it" plan until the organization felt iut was time to switch philosophies. I don't think it is a coincidence that once the organization decide to "go in a different direction" that KW stepped aside for Hahn. KW did his time and didn't want to go through the "re-tooling" process. He went back to what he always said he liked the most' scouting. I have no doubt that if KW had stayed the GM that he would be on a similar path as Hahn. Maybe not the exact same moves but a similar philosophy. Remember who the primary scout for the big players is for Hahn, KW.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jun 20, 2014 -> 09:26 AM) Again, I agree with most of it, but I wouldn't see it as a very slim chance he goes #1 or #2. He was the consensus number 1 prospect heading into this year, had a year which was seen as relatively disappointing and still was considered by most as the #2 prospects, sliding to #3 after a surprise pick at #2, in what was considered a good draft. In fact, the fact that his leverage is way lower as a senior makes it even more likely he'd go #1 or #2, you'd get a premium talent and the probability of an underslot deal. I'm nitpicking really, I agree with the premise that he should sign. That was my point. Working with the MLB staff on his change would be the advantage and he could develop it.