ptatc

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 6, 2014 -> 11:54 AM) I agree. This is far from the "he could have just skipped a start and then pitched, the DL was just extraordinary precausion" it started out as. This is true. However, I think they really thought that. The are approaching like a muscle strain. The muscle just isn't responding as quickly as they would like.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 6, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) What does your gut tell you? We're all starting to get alarmed...as this is clearly a lot more than missing just a start or two. Is it really possible that there's a "partial" tear that will heal on its own with rest/rehab and not require surgery? And what, if anything, can be done to prevent such a recurrence in the future? There's just no way to realistically change his mechanics without completely changing his effectiveness, and that would probably lead to even more injuries as he overcompensated or tried to protect himself subconsciously. If they even suspected a partial tear, he would have been shut down for at least 4 weeks. They believe it is a muscles strain and are progressing accordingly. The unknown factor is how bad the strain is and how long before the inflammation goes down. Once this happens it's a strengthening and motor control process. This is why how long between throwing sessions is important. It's based on how the muscle is recovering.

QUOTE (flavum @ May 6, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) So, Dan Bernstein pretty much just called Hawk a racist. He calls any from the south or speaks with an accent a racists. "because they are all redneck muricans"

QUOTE (bmags @ May 5, 2014 -> 07:04 PM) ugh, I knew this was going to happen. Nobody is going to talk me down from the ledge on this. We are going to keep getting "good reports" but a delayed time table and then suddenly we'll see "Sale out for season, getting surgery" This is entirely possible. He had a 40 pitch bullpen session yesterday. If he felt fine he would probably have a simulated game or rehab start coming up. Obviously, everything wasn't fine. He is going to have another bullpen session tomorrow I think. If this happens than I will be encouraged. It means that they are just working on strengthening to get his arm ready for a start. If the bullpen session happens any later than Thursday, there is still something going on.

QUOTE (bmags @ May 5, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) Yeah I bet. I can't relate to how terrible a human being you have to be to try and start a fight at a game over some macho team pride BS. Go to a Bears packers game, it's even worse. It was so bad I stopped going to those and sold my tickets for them.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ May 3, 2014 -> 01:41 PM) Wow, what the hell is wrong with him? Is Sierra going to replace Eaton on the roster now? Jones had a disc problem in his back. Last report was that he had injections to calm the inflammation. Obviously they didn't help. Not a good prognosis.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ May 2, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) So, no rehab? Probably a rehab start or simulated game. He has been off too long. The bullpen session is to see how he feels.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2014 -> 02:28 PM) If the Sox signed Rodon, and failed to sign everyone else they drafted, and Rodon was David Price like, the only draft they would have had up until this point of this century which would be as good or better is 2010 when Sale fell into their laps. Take the best player available at #3. Don't worry about saving money for your other picks. The downside of this is what if he doesn't make the mlb. Then you have a draft with nothing. If you have more higher quality picks throughout the draft theoreticlly you have a better chance of getting an MLBer out of it. I'm not saying which is the better option just that here is risk and reward with each option and which one do you chose. This is why I do not make the kind of money they do.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 11:01 PM) Have you seen this article? What are your thoughts? http://m.si.com/4130468/overuse-of-young-p...urgery-problem/ I don't always agree with Verducci but I agree with alot of this article. I don't think it's as much the volume of throwing (although that can still be a factor) as much as it is the effort and stress of throwing. On this board you can see it during games. There are posts of "still throwing 97 in the eighth inning." I stated before that I think part of the reason that there are more injuries is that pitchers are throwing harder more often because they are being trained to think 6 innings not 9. In the high schools, velocity gets you noticed and the big money thus the bigger stronger kids (compared to 20-30 years ago) are trying to throw harder all of the time. It's not all fastball velocity. The cut fastball is a popular pitch as well as the slider. These pitches break better with tight spin and velocity. This is not proven in any study. It's just my opinion from previous research and observations.

QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 09:48 PM) But who are they ahead of? Guys that can take the strain but aren't chosen? Or have we eliminated pitchers that are workhorses? They are more pitchers for one. With added teams and specialists. But they are ahead of lesser talented pitchers. However since they break down more, more pitchers get a chnce. The workhorse pitcher is somewhat eliminted but these are the 4th and 5th starters which didn't exist back then.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 04:35 PM) That's what I meant to say. I was discussing this with a physical therapist recently...your words almost exactly Trained at Marquette as well?

QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) I had a great opportunity to meet Nolan Ryan at his Bassin-Inn Restaurant on Choke Canyon Lake (now closed sadly). Someone asked why pitchers seem to get injured more today (circa 2003) than when he was playing. His reply was that we pamper kids too much. He through hundreds of balls a day, year round, growing up. He believed the best way to develop pitching muscles is to use pitching muscles. His .02 All of the old timers think that. The problem with that is they always threw that much and the guys who couldn't got weeded out early on. Today the pitchers are coddled, not used to it, and they are trying to save every pitcher. So the ones who would have been hurt early are still pitching and can't take that workload.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 10:27 AM) Too much weight lifting causes injuries. So does sliding head first all the time. Unnecessary diving in outfield causes injuries. Too much weight lifting does not cause injuries. Too much unbalanced (front to back) weightlifting or weightlifting without subsequent flexibility activity causes injuries.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 06:31 AM) I am going to ask of those posters who are way smarter than I to answer this, is it the weather or is it the pitching stress of learning different types of pitches at the young age ? Throwing breaking balls at a young age is a contributing factor at that age. It doesn't have a bearing at the MLB level. Stress, overuse, mechanics are contributing factors at the MLB or professional level. IMHO, it's in that order. Weather isn't a factor. You are dealing with small muscles that are doing very specific motions. Not a hamstring in a sprint to first base. There are very different neuormuscular patterns and timing going on in the hamstring that really don't apply in pitching.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 07:18 PM) So, you're cool with him a) going over 120 pitches and b) going over 120 pitches when he's visibly straining? Both those things happened and both are dumb as s***. Pitch counts aren't God's word but they sure as hell aren't meaningless either. I'm more annoyed that Robin left a visibly tired Sale in the game than the pitch count thing, but I'm pretty sure the brass had a nice quick chat with Robin about it. He wasn't visibly tired enough to alter the mechanics at least Cooper and Ventura didn't think so and I think they know him fairly well. Injuries happen regardless of precautions. Otherwise I wouldn't have a job.

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) I hate this. Yesterday I see a tweet that Sale is fine and all is well, and today it's gonna be that thing "oh, yeah he doesn't need DL he's not going on Rehab, no he's gonna be fine" and tomorrow it's "White Sox shut down Chris Sale indefinitely for elbow exploding in 6,000 places" They are just working on strengthening after the rest so the elbow will be strong enough when he returns.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) So serious question. If "My agent is Scott Boras" is legitimately pushing a guy down in the draft, why on Earth would a high draft pick use Scott Boras as his agent? You could switch to Boras before you get to free agency if you really want to follow that biggest money possible path, and you're costing yourself several million dollars if you could be a #1 pick and you go#3. Because someone will pay it. He just has to find the right sucker and he will have convinced the player and their parents of this.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 11:38 PM) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ws&c_id=cws Apparently they're going to do all the work to get Sale ready to return without him going on a rehab assignment away from Cooper and Schneider. Has played catch now a couple of times. "He's playing catch. He's loosening up, feeling better each day," Cooper said. "We don't really have a timetable. I haven't spoken to [White Sox head athletic trainer] Herm [schneider] yet today, but we speak on the bench every night when it comes, and he's starting to feel even better as days go on." White Sox manager Robin Ventura doesn't believe Sale will need to go on a Minor League rehab stint before he comes back, with Sale having the ability to get that work done with the White Sox. He also doesn't feel the team is taking any extra precautionary measures this time compared to the time in each of Sale's previous two years as a starter that he has been shut down. "No. It's the same. It's the same," Ventura said. "The times before, the first time we were more cautious than anything moving him from being a starter. But having gone through it, this is just part of stuff that has happened to him before, you just want to make sure. "He's the one that will let you know when he's feeling good enough. He'll know when he's ready." They are either being more cautious or it was a worse injury as last time he did not go on the DL.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 01:22 PM) This is where Balta says who cares? If it doesn't matter, the White Sox would be willing to take Kolek or Aiken at #3 (if available), and yet almost nobody believes they would actually do that with their compressed timeframe for getting back to respectability and not being second to last in the majors for attendance for the next three years. Only if the White Sox are willing to go out and spend the money for a Masterson or Shields to bridge the rotation to contention can they really afford to go after a high school starting pitcher. And having three lefties in the rotation makes Rodon just a little bit less of a "must have" than it would be if the White Sox had five righties. So obviously it's not the PBA, or it would be Kolek/Aiken/Rodon at 3. Certainly not Turner, when there are 100 arguments for Jackson over him. Heck, most draft boards now expect Turner to be at the end of the 1st/start of the 2nd round. I don't think it' so much the timeframe as it is the probability of success. The high end college pitcher still has a better chance of reaching the MLB as the high end HS.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Apr 27, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Looking for an SUV with less than 30000 miles and no older than a 2011 for under 25000 and a 7 seater at least. Only one I seem to find is the Durango which looks really nice and has some decent reviews. Just want to do due diligence. Can anyone recommend any others? I love my Traverse. Big enough for all of the lacrosse stuff and still get decent MPG (around 22). I got the sports package so it has the hitch and extra gear switch and engine cooler. Mine seats 7 with two captains chairs in the second row. I drive a fair amount with the kids. It has 127,000 in 4 1/2 years with no major repairs.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Apr 27, 2014 -> 05:01 PM) Good. I dig his GB to FB ratio. Clowns dig the groundball!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/roid-r...rce=twitterfeed This can't be right. I've read and heard on the radio that competition between team mates does not make a player perform better. It is a great story and only something he would say on the air.

QUOTE (Bruce_Blixton @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 01:07 PM) Tough luck for Hoffman this late in the season, my wild speculation regarding his injury is that his last start was basically an unofficial pro-day with so many scouts in attendance so he dialed it up and let everything fly to very positive results. However in the process he probably overextended himself which probably led to this recent soreness, my concern is whether he can consistently pitch at the level he did in his last start without risking serious injury. I've never been a believer in Hoffman and this really should scare Hahn & Co. off of him at #3. If Aiken/Kolek are off the board at #3 I'd probably go with Alex Jackson, I know our OF depth in the minors in a bit crowded but his swing and tools are too hard to pass up IMO. The sox will not go with an HS bat at #3.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 12:52 AM) 5 of the 8 Bears home games are Nov 16 or later and there are two December night games, that sucks. Looks like I'll be selling most of my tickets this year. I'm too old for those games.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 23, 2014 -> 01:57 PM) RHP Jake Cose is undergoing a discectomy (back surgery to alleviate issues with a herniated disc). From limited Googling, looks like a 3-6 month recovery, typically, for pitchers, in terms of being back to baseball activity. So he's likely not pitching anywhere in the org this year. Maybe winter ball. Maybe ptatc can add more color if he notices this post. A Discectomy can be a tough to recover from for a pitcher. The surgery is done for a disc protrusion in the spine. The disc pushes out of the posterior lateral corner and compresses the nerve. This shoots pain down into the buttock or leg. The difficulty is that the disc pressure increases with spinal flexion. This is what the pitcher must do during his follow through. I'm not surprised that he couldn't relieve the problem conservatively. The problem now becomes strengthening the core muscles. The distance between the vertebrae in decreased (due to the resection of the bulge) thus the spine becomes inherently unstable. Plus they had to cut the muscles to get to the area. This makes it more unstable. Depending on the size of the bulge, he could be in for a long rehab. With a pitcher I would guess more along the 6-8 month range for the completion of the rehab but some of it depends on his strength and stabilty prior to surgery.