ptatc

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 07:34 AM) So, what does this mean for his recovery/timetable? nvm, just found an article. Depends on if the epidural relieves the pain. If it does it could have been just a nerve irritation. If this is the case, he'll be redy when the 15 day stint is over. If it persists it could from a disk or another anatomical source. This could be vary on rehab time depending on the source.

QUOTE (iguchi=dank @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) Well I hate the news, but i've always had a soft spot for viciedo even though he pisses me off more times than most, so honestly its news I can handle. If it was just danks behind Avi I think I would be much more bummed. Viciedo being given one last shot at solid playing time isn't the worst thing that can happen to our team and the dropoff shouldn't be much, hell Avi was playing alot like tank has most of this year. On another note about labrums. I had my Right Labrum worked on Dec 8th of 2013 and after a little more than 4 months I'm not even close to ready to play major sports. I can run and lift things fine from the waist down but its been a nightmare of a recovery. Mine was from overuse over time (tennis) and not a labrum tear from one physical act like Garcia's. Our Doctor in house is correct in that this type of labrum tear is slightly easier to recover from. Mine was a labrum tear and the labrum/capsule had been stretched out over time so they had to tighten the capsule quite a bit and thats the tricky part. As Ptatc said the hard part is getting it tight but not to tight to restrict movement. At over 4 months for me I have a good amount of motion back but I can tell its still pretty damn tight and thats going to be a b**** to get that last 15% movement/strength back. The docs do have to side on making it tighter as you can still work that out over time rather than too loose and the problems would likely return. I gotta say this isn't an injury anyone would want to have depending on the severity and the road back is difficult. Also about whether it would be worse left or right.. over the course of the year I'm sure even if it was his right shoulder he could get back to throwing the ball well enough, my real worry with it being the left shoulder is the power sap it could have as its MUCH harder to push/pull outward from your body instead of pulling inward to your chest. imagine hitting a one handed backhand in tennis, that motion of pushing outward is going to take a long time to get back to his original power. I hate to see anyone go through this injury and Avi, get ready for rehab and the wonderful world of "scrapping" he's going to come to hate that little ceramic purple hand held tool they use to break up the scar tissue Do you know if you had any bicep tendon involvement? This is usually the determining factor in overhead, overuse athletic problems. That little purple tool is a fairly recent form of aggressive scar massage. The PT you used it is up on the latest rehab. And you're right it hurts like nothing else. Hopefully, there isn't enogh scarring that he doesn't need it much. Just to clarify. I'm not a doctor. I'm a physical therapist and athletic trainer with a few of decades of experience in sports medicine.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:51 AM) If I ever meet you, I am buying you a beer. I would gladly accept.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) It seems to me the percentage of pitchers who throw hard is significantly higher than it was 20-30 years ago. It wasn't that long ago where if you threw 90, it was considered you were a hard thrower. Also there has been a lot of talk of the seams being smaller making it more of an effort to achieve the movement pitchers want and need. Hawk had a suggestion several years ago. Raise the mound, raise the seams on the baseballs. It definitely would take some pressure off shoulders and elbows. I agree. Physically the average pitcher is just bigger and stronger. But I also think that pitchers today try to throw harder. They don't need to pace themselves for 9 innings. They know a quality start is 6 innings. So they can throw harder and over exert themselves thus cause more injuries.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:10 AM) In many martial arts, a big part of what you do as you reach levels where you are actually sparring is learning how to fall peroperly, to decrease the chance of injury. Maybe I am indeed overanalyzing, but, doesn't that mean it could be taught in any sport as well? It doesn't happen often of course, this isn't football, so maybe it just isn't worth the investment of time. But I do think it is possible to do. I had a torn labrum (throwing shoulder) repaired, but I also had "capsular damage" as they put it, and I got the impression they had to actually pull out all or part of a capsule. And I think they said that cannot be replaced. Maybe that's changed, or maybe I misunderstood. No, you probably didn't misunderstand. Basically, the capsule attaches to the labrum and the labrum attaches to the bone. The labrum is circular and surrounds the area where the humerus meets the glenoid fossa to make the glenohumeral joint. The long head of the bicep tendon attaches to the labrum as well. It very common that when the labrum is torn the capsule is as well. You cannot replace the capsule but what they can do it repair it by either folding it over and stitching it (this is what they did for Danks but is was very loose) or they can use a laser type device to heat it and actually shrink it. In your case the capsule probably stretched enough that they needed to resect some of it and stitch it together. The capsular injuries generally happen in an overuse type scenario where it gradually loosens over time. In this case it is traumatic so if there is damage to the capsule it stretched to the point of failure first. So once the physician goes in to see the damage, they will need to determine which type of repair is necessary, if at all. The way his arm "jammed" into the ground it could have just popped the labrum and minimal capsular damage was incurred. They won't really know until they go in.

Turns out his problem wasn't a glue problem but it's actually a nerve issue from his back. Not an uncommon mistake, but one I would have thought they would have caught before now. This really explains why he had trouble flexing his spine and hip on the follow through.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 09:52 PM) It will be interesting to see if the White Sox let him play in Winter Ball in Venezuela, or if they completely shut him down until Spring Training 2015. Offensively, having the offseason to get back into a rhythm offensively would definitely help, but then you wonder about him hurting himself again before he's 100%. With this type of surgery, the chances for him re-injuring it again (swinging the bat) aren't MARKEDLY HIGHER if he starts playing again (winter ball), as opposed to waiting for spring, are they? There is no increased chance of reinjury. Once the labrum and capsule are tacked down it will heal. The problem could be if the capsule is either too tight or too losee it could interfere with the stability of the glenohumeral joint. Since it's his non-throwing shoulder it will take less stress and most likely won't interfere. I wouldn't be surprised if he could DH in winterball in an attempt to reclaim some missed at bats.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 10:06 PM) If his arm doesn't loosen up and his velocity stays where it's at this might be what he is. Obviously he wouldn't be living up to his contract but it's also not the worst thing in the world as he's still a valuable pitcher. He was throwing harder earlier. Probably a little dead arm period (I hope).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 05:25 PM) His throwing shoulder isn't as important though as his lead shoulder when swinging. I think this is one of the worst injuries a power hitter can have. A wrist injury would be worse. At the shoulder, a 3rd degree separation would have been worse. They can fix this one and have a good success rate with it. He will be fine by spring training. He could probably be ready by September but by that time why push it much, unless they want to get him some at bats.

QUOTE (Nokona @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) Could it affect his swing? Particularly the inner half, something he already struggles with... Yes, it could. That's the worry with this one. However, it should be fine. The strength and stability at the end ranges of motion wil be the key. This is where the "bringing the hands in" could be effected.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) What sucks the most here is that we don't even know if he's any good. Next year we'll be wanting to put out a playoff-ready team but we'll have to start a 23 year old, iffy-fielding RF that swings at everything and has less than 500 ABs of track record. This was the perfect year to let him fail, but it will be a lot more difficult from here on out. FWIW, labrum repairs have come a really long way since 2004. Beyond that, the kind of labral tear you get from impact like this is a lot more common and straightforward to repair. He should be 100%. Correct. The anchors they use for them now are much more effective, especially if th biceps is invloved.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 02:34 PM) Joy. There is a difference between a "fray" and a 'tear" anatomically. With a fray the tissue has degenerated over time and there may not be enough viable tissue to use for a repair. At least in this case there should be a good repair.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Since it's a torn labrum, does it matter that it's the left shoulder rather than the right shoulder? It would be more challenging in the right as it would be the throwing shoulder. He should recover fine.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) Looked up labrum repair. http://blog.c-o-r.com/2012/03/28/what-to-e...y-slap-bankart/ It says the recovery time is typically 3 months, which means with a rehab stint and advanced treatment he could be back by late August at worst. If the Sox are holding him out for the season, that is a good thing to allow him additional time to heal and re-build strength before taking on baseball activities. Sure it sucks that it will stunt him a little, but having him work his way back slowly may payoff off well in the long term. That's at the low end and not usually for someone in professional sports. With Gracia it's his front shoulder for the swing and the rotation strength really needs to be there. The actual time will be closer to 6 months before he is completely back to normal. It could be closer to the 3 months but I doubt it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 01:56 PM) What hitters have successfully recovered from this injury? I saw Matt Kemp had labrum surgery a few years ago. I believe Quentin did. He just kept hurting everything else.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 09:44 AM) It's most likely just a sprain of the AC joint, a capsulitis (jam) of the glenohumeral joint or a subacromial bursitis. If this is the case it's no more than a week or two on the conservative side. He didn't move it so it's impossible to know if there was an injury more serious such as a SLAP lesion or bicep tendon injury. Those are unlikely but possible when you force the humerus straight up into the acromion. Looks like it was one of the unlikely ones. At least it's not a 3rd degree sepration which are tough to fix. These aren't as bad unless the biceps tendon became heavily damaged as well. He will be good to go for next spring training.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 09:47 AM) Jordan Danks not in the Charlotte lineup. We know where this is all going. Hopefully, either a precaution or just the 15 day DL for a sprain.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 08:19 AM) This is getting ridiculous. IMHO. Too many pitchers trying to throw too hard. This is the downside of the ever increasing use of the bullpen. The pitchers have it their mind that a 6 inning effort is a quality start. So they throw harder more often because they don't need to conserve the effort for later innings.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) Thanks as always for your insight, so it sounds like a separation would be out with X-Rays, what else major would be ruled out by a negative x-ray and what is still on the table? It's most likely just a sprain of the AC joint, a capsulitis (jam) of the glenohumeral joint or a subacromial bursitis. If this is the case it's no more than a week or two on the conservative side. He didn't move it so it's impossible to know if there was an injury more serious such as a SLAP lesion or bicep tendon injury. Those are unlikely but possible when you force the humerus straight up into the acromion.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) But X rays were negative Looked alot like an AC injury from the way he hit and the way he held it. Herm did all the right tests it was difficult the results. Hopefully its' just a mild one. If the X-rays didn't show a separation it shouldn't be too bad.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) Those were some bombs, but I'd say Avi displayed even more power. Great to see - great time to be a White Sox fan. All hail Hahn. Let's just hope Garcia doesn't get homer happy and starts swinging for the fences all the time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 12:52 PM) But still, using your conspiracy theory and his uber talent, shouldn't he be at least a little improved? If anything, he's going the other way. I think you will ultimately find out Santiago isn't nearly as tremendous as you think. He's going to be another guy with really good stuff who couldn't put it together. There were many before him and there will be many after. I'm not sure putting him in the bullpen really effected that. Possible but I don't think so.

QUOTE (beautox @ Apr 9, 2014 -> 11:03 AM) I just want to add that if you take out the first two games of the year Semien's line is .333/.400/.519 3BB/6SO 1 HR 1SB with an unsustainable .400BABIP, I'm sure we'll still love what he is capable of when he comes back down to his career norms of .305-315ish I've been looking at BABIP for a number of different hitters. Is it possible that all hitter have a high BABIP during their hot streaks and a low BABIP during thier slumps? The average for the year is in a middle range. So every time a person is hot it's unsustainable. Not coincidentally it isn't sustained but they go through periods unsustainably (?) high BABIP

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 04:51 PM) I don't believe in divisions, so there's that. Since they have them, I think it's the best way. However, I agree with you. Get rid of the divisions and just take the top 6 from each league and do playoffs with that seeding to get an AL and NL champ. Then do the WS.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 7, 2014 -> 05:28 PM) This pretty much describes the flaw in my own delivery if I'm following you correctly. I have the SLAP repair, biceps tenodesis, and infraspinatus repair as evidence for your argument Could be. Your injuries are from the posterior and superior aspects of the glenohumeral joint so it would follow this same train of thought.