ptatc

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 17, 2014 -> 07:01 AM) I thought it was gone for good I just had a new computer delivered and was trying to figure out what was wrong with it. I couldn't get on soxtalk so there must have been a problem with the new computer.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 02:51 PM) Not sure why they didn't think of this for the 2nd and 3rd games of the year or even in previous years. Saves them money by not having to staff the UD with ushers, concessions, etc. They read soxtalk and saw my post about getting kicked out of the rf bleachers at old comiskey because they wanted to close it.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 15, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) So he had a fracture too... interesting. Hopefully that doesn't change the long-term prognosis. This actually makes the prognosis better. It's a lot easier to pin the two pieces of bone together than repair the labrum. Avulsions are easy to fix. They just take about 8 weeks for the bone to heal together. If there is no significant capsular damage (there wasn't any mention of it) he should recover very nicely.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 03:41 PM) Bullplop. If you compare his first 3 starts this year with his first 3 starts last year they're within error of each other. Not sure what the SEM is for this but the range and variability is greater.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 13, 2014 -> 07:26 PM) What he said ^. I want Webb to be the closer but I also want him used in the biggest situations which isn't always the 9th inning. When we got to the 9th with the lead today it should have been Webb though. You can't have it both ways. If you go by the theory that you save the best reliever for the "high leverage" situations whenever it occurs, you need to save Webb for the next day when this may occur. Just like most mangers save the closer now. So you don't use Webb in the "low leverage" situation of a clean 9th inning. In this "easier" clean inning you go to the 2nd or 3rd best reliever which is probably Linstrom right now, so this is what you get. You can't over use your best reliever, whenever you want to use him.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 14, 2014 -> 07:10 AM) I think it is asinine to label Hawkins's ceiling as a extra. You can be critical all you want about his floor, in that he has a long way to go to ever become a major-league regular with all these contact issues. But if he figures it all out, his ceiling is tremendous, not that of an extra They do this because they will be right most of the time. Most players in the minors won't reach the majors or if they do, they aren't stars. So if a prospect has a significant weakness, you say this and he won't be far off.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 13, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) Yeah. I'm not coaching baseball though. I teach junior high and coach HS football and JR high track. I was trying to make a joke sorry. But yeah, the kids i coach in other sports play for the Sparks and some other teams around here. Two girls from your track team were thorns in my daughters side last year. They are in high school now and still go at it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) I guess I'm trying to figure out the difference in how this this injury affects bat speed for a hitter as opposed to pitch speed for a pitcher. To a novice like myself, happening to the lead shoulder like it did, it seems pretty serious. It really shouldn't effect the speed. The two things it could effect is the power or bringing the arms in for the range. These variables are dependant on the looseness or tightness of the repair if the capsule is involved which they won't kmow yet.

QUOTE (Brian @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) The tease before the break made it seem like it would be more. Cliff Floyd says he's not getting recognition because "The White Sox aren't playing good ball." Cornelius ought to know since he is from the south suburbs.

QUOTE (sin city sox fan @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) What exactly is the healing time on this injury? I know he is out for the season....but is there any chance he may be able to play in the Arizona Fall League? I'd really hate to see a 22 year old kid miss a full season of baseball and a short season in AZ may be perfect in preparing him for a great comeback in 2015. The research for the general injury is 3-6 months. However for a professional athlete with the demands placed upon the body closer to 6 months is a better estimate. This puts him towards Sept-Oct. He could go to AFL or winterball if the Sox are so inclined.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 10:49 AM) I've never gotten why Frank is seen as a destructive personality. Yes he has said some things he'd like back. These are jocks. We watch games where the absolute best jocks are all thrown together. They are going to say dumb things, as it is what jocks do. If we want a collection of the best mannered getting awards for good manners..i dont know where i turn instead. Westminister Dog Show on USA? He wasn't destructive just not very kind or friendly in public. He has every right to do that. He is just a controversial personality in that area.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 12:37 PM) No wonder atheletes stick to cliches. Anything slightly controversial or out of the ordinary and the guy takes a beating. If you say something in a public forum, expect some people to attack. I'm sure some agree with him but those people usually don't comment. In today's society eveybody thinks their opinion needs to be heard.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) Buehrle implies Maddux has cheated his whole career and this board probably stands up in applause. Frank says this, an offhanded comment, and here it's "whoops he's getting out of line again" DBL STANDARD Just like the Bonds vs. Ortiz debate. Nice guys get treated better. A pain the the rear is treated like a pain in the rear. It's the Dave Kingman treatment.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 09:56 AM) I think one of the reasons for the over effort is the speed guns at the ballparks and on TV. Years ago, they didn't exist and only a few didn't know if you were throwing 91 or 87. Now everyone does. It's out there for everyone to see. Unless you are known as a soft tosser, I think it makes you maximize the effort. Just read the gamethread. Danks was throwing 87-89, and there were a lot of comments saying he had nothing. If he had the same results and the gun was showing 91-92, he would have probably been called unlucky and posters who now think he has nothing would have been encouraged. 20 years ago, without the gun, the results were really all that mattered. Probably part of it as well. The whole climate and atmosphere in the sport (all sports really) has definitely changed.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) Our resident injury expert has a more informed prognosis in the post above. He should be the consultant to the media for all local sports injuries. I appreciate the sentiment but these are just educated guesses based on experience. I would be crucified in a public forum. It's kind of like predicting the weather. People closer to the case know what going on. I hear a few things from friends but it's mostly educated guesses for prognosis. Describing the injury and anatomy is more scientific and accurrate.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 07:34 AM) So, what does this mean for his recovery/timetable? nvm, just found an article. Depends on if the epidural relieves the pain. If it does it could have been just a nerve irritation. If this is the case, he'll be redy when the 15 day stint is over. If it persists it could from a disk or another anatomical source. This could be vary on rehab time depending on the source.

QUOTE (iguchi=dank @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:58 AM) Well I hate the news, but i've always had a soft spot for viciedo even though he pisses me off more times than most, so honestly its news I can handle. If it was just danks behind Avi I think I would be much more bummed. Viciedo being given one last shot at solid playing time isn't the worst thing that can happen to our team and the dropoff shouldn't be much, hell Avi was playing alot like tank has most of this year. On another note about labrums. I had my Right Labrum worked on Dec 8th of 2013 and after a little more than 4 months I'm not even close to ready to play major sports. I can run and lift things fine from the waist down but its been a nightmare of a recovery. Mine was from overuse over time (tennis) and not a labrum tear from one physical act like Garcia's. Our Doctor in house is correct in that this type of labrum tear is slightly easier to recover from. Mine was a labrum tear and the labrum/capsule had been stretched out over time so they had to tighten the capsule quite a bit and thats the tricky part. As Ptatc said the hard part is getting it tight but not to tight to restrict movement. At over 4 months for me I have a good amount of motion back but I can tell its still pretty damn tight and thats going to be a b**** to get that last 15% movement/strength back. The docs do have to side on making it tighter as you can still work that out over time rather than too loose and the problems would likely return. I gotta say this isn't an injury anyone would want to have depending on the severity and the road back is difficult. Also about whether it would be worse left or right.. over the course of the year I'm sure even if it was his right shoulder he could get back to throwing the ball well enough, my real worry with it being the left shoulder is the power sap it could have as its MUCH harder to push/pull outward from your body instead of pulling inward to your chest. imagine hitting a one handed backhand in tennis, that motion of pushing outward is going to take a long time to get back to his original power. I hate to see anyone go through this injury and Avi, get ready for rehab and the wonderful world of "scrapping" he's going to come to hate that little ceramic purple hand held tool they use to break up the scar tissue Do you know if you had any bicep tendon involvement? This is usually the determining factor in overhead, overuse athletic problems. That little purple tool is a fairly recent form of aggressive scar massage. The PT you used it is up on the latest rehab. And you're right it hurts like nothing else. Hopefully, there isn't enogh scarring that he doesn't need it much. Just to clarify. I'm not a doctor. I'm a physical therapist and athletic trainer with a few of decades of experience in sports medicine.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:51 AM) If I ever meet you, I am buying you a beer. I would gladly accept.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:47 AM) It seems to me the percentage of pitchers who throw hard is significantly higher than it was 20-30 years ago. It wasn't that long ago where if you threw 90, it was considered you were a hard thrower. Also there has been a lot of talk of the seams being smaller making it more of an effort to achieve the movement pitchers want and need. Hawk had a suggestion several years ago. Raise the mound, raise the seams on the baseballs. It definitely would take some pressure off shoulders and elbows. I agree. Physically the average pitcher is just bigger and stronger. But I also think that pitchers today try to throw harder. They don't need to pace themselves for 9 innings. They know a quality start is 6 innings. So they can throw harder and over exert themselves thus cause more injuries.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 11, 2014 -> 08:10 AM) In many martial arts, a big part of what you do as you reach levels where you are actually sparring is learning how to fall peroperly, to decrease the chance of injury. Maybe I am indeed overanalyzing, but, doesn't that mean it could be taught in any sport as well? It doesn't happen often of course, this isn't football, so maybe it just isn't worth the investment of time. But I do think it is possible to do. I had a torn labrum (throwing shoulder) repaired, but I also had "capsular damage" as they put it, and I got the impression they had to actually pull out all or part of a capsule. And I think they said that cannot be replaced. Maybe that's changed, or maybe I misunderstood. No, you probably didn't misunderstand. Basically, the capsule attaches to the labrum and the labrum attaches to the bone. The labrum is circular and surrounds the area where the humerus meets the glenoid fossa to make the glenohumeral joint. The long head of the bicep tendon attaches to the labrum as well. It very common that when the labrum is torn the capsule is as well. You cannot replace the capsule but what they can do it repair it by either folding it over and stitching it (this is what they did for Danks but is was very loose) or they can use a laser type device to heat it and actually shrink it. In your case the capsule probably stretched enough that they needed to resect some of it and stitch it together. The capsular injuries generally happen in an overuse type scenario where it gradually loosens over time. In this case it is traumatic so if there is damage to the capsule it stretched to the point of failure first. So once the physician goes in to see the damage, they will need to determine which type of repair is necessary, if at all. The way his arm "jammed" into the ground it could have just popped the labrum and minimal capsular damage was incurred. They won't really know until they go in.

Turns out his problem wasn't a glue problem but it's actually a nerve issue from his back. Not an uncommon mistake, but one I would have thought they would have caught before now. This really explains why he had trouble flexing his spine and hip on the follow through.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 09:52 PM) It will be interesting to see if the White Sox let him play in Winter Ball in Venezuela, or if they completely shut him down until Spring Training 2015. Offensively, having the offseason to get back into a rhythm offensively would definitely help, but then you wonder about him hurting himself again before he's 100%. With this type of surgery, the chances for him re-injuring it again (swinging the bat) aren't MARKEDLY HIGHER if he starts playing again (winter ball), as opposed to waiting for spring, are they? There is no increased chance of reinjury. Once the labrum and capsule are tacked down it will heal. The problem could be if the capsule is either too tight or too losee it could interfere with the stability of the glenohumeral joint. Since it's his non-throwing shoulder it will take less stress and most likely won't interfere. I wouldn't be surprised if he could DH in winterball in an attempt to reclaim some missed at bats.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 10:06 PM) If his arm doesn't loosen up and his velocity stays where it's at this might be what he is. Obviously he wouldn't be living up to his contract but it's also not the worst thing in the world as he's still a valuable pitcher. He was throwing harder earlier. Probably a little dead arm period (I hope).

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 05:25 PM) His throwing shoulder isn't as important though as his lead shoulder when swinging. I think this is one of the worst injuries a power hitter can have. A wrist injury would be worse. At the shoulder, a 3rd degree separation would have been worse. They can fix this one and have a good success rate with it. He will be fine by spring training. He could probably be ready by September but by that time why push it much, unless they want to get him some at bats.

QUOTE (Nokona @ Apr 10, 2014 -> 04:03 PM) Could it affect his swing? Particularly the inner half, something he already struggles with... Yes, it could. That's the worry with this one. However, it should be fine. The strength and stability at the end ranges of motion wil be the key. This is where the "bringing the hands in" could be effected.