ptatc

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 09:03 PM) LMAO. Upset with a student newspaper giving out grades. If that effects your players, you need some new players. I can't blame Bernstein for not liking Coach K. You don't have to like him but you also don't need to relentlessly attack every college coach at every opportunity and beat it to death. He takes it overboard to vindictiveness and he comes of petty and jealous.

QUOTE (Joxer_Daly @ Apr 4, 2013 -> 11:28 AM) Clay pigeon shooting. Nothing but slaying those poor clay bastards all day long. Have you ever gotten the shards from one of those in your eye? It really stings!

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 06:45 PM) What exactly did Coach K do to him when he was at Duke? I've heard Bernstein rip him before, but I've never heard the details. Was not very cooperative and arrogant with student press and such. Also the whole situation with preferential treatment of the basketball team.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 11:40 AM) You're right. Bernstein has a problem with coaches. But he doesn't go around making up stories to hurt their reputations. He's simply reporting something that Steve Alford did that is reprehensible. Not coaches. Only college coaches. There were Chicago area high school coaches with scandals recently. He doesn't mention it. But take a college coach and he's all over it. I'm not excusing any of the behavior. He is not wrong. But he has an agenda and he rides ad nauseum. I don't listen often but it's the same thing over and over again.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Apr 3, 2013 -> 10:31 AM) Part of it stems from the interview that was on his show when the whole thing happened, so there's a stronger connection there. All of stems from the way Coach K treated HIM at Duke. HE absolutely has hated college coaches since then. HE believes they all have too much power and will do evil things with it. HE was taking shots at NU for hiring Collins because Collins picked Duke over NU. HE will always attack college coaches as much as possible and will not consider any other side.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 29, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) Verlander extended for 7 years $180 million, with an option year that could make it 8/202. This is one of those deals that will look really bad the last couple of years. I know he is one of the best but almost 26 million for a 37 year old pitcher? Unless it's really front loaded, it will be hard to work with.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Mar 29, 2013 -> 09:23 AM) No I'm satisfied with the explanation, I am even less of an expert than you! It would definitely be interesting to hear from an actual pitching coach about the mechanics of it. Or even ptatc might know, with his rehab history. The basic reason is that while the theory is to keep the arm at the exact same speed, that is really hard to do. Most of the drop in velocity comes from the different grip. However the arm speed does slow as well, hopefully not enough to tip the pitch. As long as the arm slot and mechanics stays the same the hitter doesn't have enough time to gauge the arm speed if it's only off a little. This is why the FB is slower in relation to the changeup and the difference isn't enough to fool hitters.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 27, 2013 -> 09:25 AM) So tell me... When does John Danks take the bump for the White Sox for the first time this season? Early May.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Mar 26, 2013 -> 11:43 AM) Go out to the practice fields and you can catch a ton of guys coming back from practice at 11:30ish. They're a bit more laid back and not getting ready to play a game. Hawk and Stoney were signing and chatting with fans, one even talked Hawk into giving him his home run call. Konerko chatted with us last year and Courtney Hawkins was pretty funny this spring and getting a lot of attention from fans. Omogrosso was hilarious talking to some of us. This is the best time for autographs. The atmosphere is much more conducive to talk to the players and get the signatures. Players do like to be bothered around the game even in Spring Training.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 26, 2013 -> 04:09 PM) Yeah, I'm not sure what goes into that. Like, why did they option Jordan Danks and Blake Tekotte at the same time, but they've brought Brandon Short and Stefan Gartrell up from minor league since then? Don't know. They do this to get the minor league teams acclimated together. They keep the extra pitchers to pitch in relief on the 2 days prior the start of the season so they don't use all of the MLB ones.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 26, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) Damn. That was actually a pretty good piece. And he backs up the article with legitimate numbers. Yes, the game has indeed changed. And I love it. Going back to pre-PED abuse era. Most players will need to choose between contact and power. Could you make a case for Canseco being one of the most influential figures in MLB history? He really changed the game for a couple of decades. Vast rule changes were made because of him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Mar 24, 2013 -> 10:01 PM) I'll never understand why they didn't go into ST thinking that Santiago was going to be a starter. Because Danks was throwing painfree prior to Spring training and was on the same schedule as everyone else. There was no reason to think that he wouldn't be ready. Unfortunately, his fastball hasn't returned as quickly as they would have liked.

QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 24, 2013 -> 12:16 PM) I don't understand your anger, your accusation of "trolling" or your thinly veiled threat of expulsion from the forum. First you were wrong in ascribing the opinion of the physician who performed this surgery on mlb pitchers to me. The entire paragraph was from an article that was properly linked. You failed to read it before casting your opinion. You chose to ignore the opinion of the surgeon that actually performed this operation on numerous occasions in favor of an anonymous physical therapist that posts on this forum. I did not choose to continue this thread. However, in addition to the fact that the article I posted with a very thorough analysis of this from a specialist, a suggestion was made that Danks capsule tear was "not a significant injury." Do you think that is a reasonable assessment of the injury? I have no agenda on John Danks injury but is seems clear to me that others choose to ignore what has been learned from similar surgical procedures and the physician that performed them. Based on that information I simply stated that none of us know how long it will take for Danks to return to his prior form. It could be a few weeks or perhaps a few months. Perhaps he will never be exactly the same as he was years ago. We just don't know. You have no basis under the rules of this forum to expel me. I have conducted myself properly here and have not even approached the level of anger, the type of sarcasm, the hatred, or the vulgarity that some have used. I can only conclude from your threat that you have an agenda and that agenda is to eliminate me from the forum for some reason that has nothing to do with any violation of the rules. Given that, I am not going to respond to you further because this is truly a bunch of nonsense and a waste of time. It's not a waste of time when you refuse to acknowledge the fact that Danks has begun throwing painfree much earlier than any of the examples from a few years ago. You can be as negative as you want but there is more evidence that he is doing well and will return soon as opposed to it taking up to 2 years in some of the examples you have cited. Is it possible he could take that ong, of course. However given his current progression there is no reason to jump to that conclusion.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 23, 2013 -> 12:19 PM) The exact same thing happened with Kreutz. The Bears offered him more than any other team in the NFL would have based on his age and performance the year or two beforehand, Kreutz decided it was an insult, the Bears signed someone else for less money, Kreutz then signed elsewhere for less than the Bears offered. And then he quit when he realized he wasn't going to get the favored treatment he got with the Bears.

QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 22, 2013 -> 03:38 PM) Of course you are misquoting AND providing a false characterization of what I said. I never stated that Danks is or isn't "healthy" but in any case, his health is not the issue. Danks feels fine and the shoulder may well be healed structurally...but the fact is that he can't pitch at a near an acceptable level as a starter, as demonstrated in his last four starts which have been abysmal Danks further away from Chicago after ugly fourth outing If you want to believe he will return earlier than other pitchers have from this kind of injury and surgical procedure, fine. I hope he does and that you are right. The fact remains though that this is just conjecture and wishful thinking. He has returned earlier than the others. He started throwing earlier and has been painfree doing so. It is not wishful thinking or conjecture it is an educated guess based on rehab progression. Until there is a set back there is no reason to think otherwise and every reason to be positive. Now if it's reported that he needs to stop throwing due to pain, it's a whole new ballgame, so to speak.

QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 22, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) "The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season." That is a mere presumption that is not based on fact. It is precisely the sort of wishful thinking that resulted in Ventura believing that Danks would be ready at the start of the season. Again, the fact is that no one knows when Danks will return to his prior form or even if he will. If you disagree with that, you are welcome to your opinion, but that is based on your belief, nothing more. As far as predictions on rehabilitation from injury. How about Derrick Rose? He feels OK and reportedly can dunk, but he is not able to play. No one can predict when he will return with any certainty. This situation is similar. Just accept the fact. Regarding Santana's similar injury return to being close to his prior form: " The small number of pitchers who have undergone the procedure thus far leaves recovery timetable estimates imprecise. It's too small a number to really be confident about when they're going to come back, and how to exactly manage their recovery," Altchek says. "We're still feeling our way through, quite honestly. It obviously takes a minimum of a year. That's the absolute minimum. And probably the average is going to net out to be closer to two." Wang similarly made his major league return on the two-year anniversary of his anterior capsule surgery. Inside Johan Santana's comeback All rehab is based on current research however since all people are different there is no such thing as a medical fact. However, based on common surgical and rehab protocols (and alot of experience) there is every reason to believe that everything is going on schedule. Of course there is no guarantee or fact after injury especially surgery. But the way he is progressing should show nothing but positives.

QUOTE (southside_hitman @ Mar 22, 2013 -> 10:23 AM) RV was obviously wrong about the relative severity of a capsule tear (which he knows about as much about as we do) and in stating that Danks would be ready for the beginning of this season, no problem. OK, RV meant well and was being positive, but at the same time you don't want to raise false expectations. The fact remains that there is no way to tell when Danks will return if at all this season. We do not even know what the details of the surgical procedure were, i.e., how large the tear or damage was, whether there is any scar tissue in the capsule from the repair, and how they capsule will mechanically impact throwing motion, location of pitches, and velocity. As to the velocity of Danks pitches, it has been reported that he touched 90 but if you saw the last game he pitched, they must have been using a speed gun that was not calibrated recently. The hitters had enough time to hitch up and take softball swings at his pitches. I hope Danks comes back strong because we need him in the rotation and not Axelrod or Santiago. Also, it will make my signed Danks stuff worth more. The fact that he was throwing painfree on a regular schedule for spring training tells you he will pitch this season. The variable is how long it takes the strength to return. The capsule is structurally sound after the repair and scar tissue would be a good thing to reinforce it. It is a very thin structure. Many times it takes a while for a pitcher to get a feel for the new shoulder but the fact that he has been reported to be painfree is the reason to think he will be back and probably soon.

QUOTE (Brian @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 05:58 PM) It was time. Shell of former self. Hope he retires. The PCL injury 2 seasons ago really robbed him of the mobility he used to have. That injury is devastating to anyone who has to explosively pivot and run.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 08:10 PM) Yeah, it goes back to the way Pods and Iguchi played the game the first half of 2005 together. You take advantage of the holes in the defense, situationally. How many times have we seen Sox hitters pull balls to 3B and SS in those situations for tailor-made double plays? (Yes, Alexei or Alex Rios in the past or any number of Sox offenders). That's not to say they've never hit the ball to the opposite side and unintentionally grounded into a DP, but the odds of getting a hit are much higher going that direction than pulling the ball, because you have the 1B covering the bag and the 2B in movement with the possibility of a steal, opening up 85% of the right side depending on the situation. But yeah, sacrificing yourself in that way is totally different than bunting a runner over to put him in scoring position. And I don't remember as many complaints about Harold Baines (when he was the best hitter on the team for nearly a decade) making similar "selfish" outs, compared to the criticism that Thomas received as a purported "stats first, team second" player. You don't remember them about Harold because he didn't talk to anyone. Harold was the cliche of the same player whether he had a good day or bad day. That's my point with Thomas. He is the best right handed hitter I've seen but it was more the way he was so obvious with complaining about stats and errors that should be turned into hits. He always focused on those thing after games. There were games the Sox won and he was miserable and angry because a hit was taken away. Some of the reason that players don't hit the other way is that is decreases power which in turn decreases OPS which is the current "best way" to determine the overall quality of a hitter.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 07:18 PM) There's also a cultural correlation, where someone like Viciedo or Alexei got noticed for their flair and hitting skills, but not necessarily doing the little things well. Alexei to this day doesn't have enough patience and pull hooks 90% of the balls he hits on the infield instead of adjusting for the situation. The famous saying with Dominican players is "you don't WALK your way off the island, you hit your way," and it's pretty rare even in their major league careers that you see players from the Dominican or Puerto Rico with huge OBP numbers. Vlad Guerrero would be a prime example. If they want to go back to a successful, fundamentals-based approach, and get away from "chicks dig the longball" 2000-2004 White Sox baseball, then the countries to emulate are definitely Japan, Korea and Chinese Taipei. Those players tend to be smaller and not home run hitters, so to continue to have success in their professional leagues, they have to sacrifice themselves depending on the situation. Of course, there has to be a balance. The "Twins' Way" thing only goes so far when you run into superior competition. Another factor is all those SABR and statistical analyses proving that sacrificing batters or stealing bases don't lead to as many runs scored as the Earl Weaver approach to baseball. I don't disagree with all of what you said. I like the "small ball" way as opposed to the home run driven teams. The homerun driven teams will slowly fall away with PED testing. Part of the problem is that people assume hitting to the right side means sacrificing. That isn't the case. You hit to the right side and have a chance to get a hit because the first baseman is holding the runner on. That is different than sacrifing with a bunt. The increased focus on stats keeps players focused on them instead of on the big picture. That was one of the thingsd that teammates had a problem with regarding Frank Thomas, Always going for the batting line in the paper instead of worrying about the only thing that should matter, winning.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) First and foremost, I strongly disagree that the game has gotten worse or diminished. I treasure the game more than ever because players are prejudiced much less based on body build and more by actual baseball skill. Second, the idea of building a team with an incredibly deep and strong bullpen has been around for a while. Specialization has changed it a little, but having a great bullpen to get to the end of games - yeah, 2002 Angels nailed that. Even with teams trading for prospects, Beane realizes that there is still value in trading players with service time. That's the market inefficiency he is taking advantage of now. Rather than hold players through their arbitration eligible years, deal them the year after they become eligible - you save money and you get better prospects. Yes, you take PR hits for dealing star players, but you continually restock your system and the number of options you have to fill out your roster continually expands and grows more talented, thus allowing you to add a rental piece here or there when/if necessary without any great cost. Tampa Bay does this flawlessly too, and, all things considered, they are probably the premier organization in all of baseball right now. The Royals haven't made the playoffs in like 27 years and they've only had like 2 or 3 winning seasons since that time, and it's because they are run so poorly. The trade for James Shields and Wade Davis this year is a perfect example of that. They gave up 4 very good prospects - one of whom is a top 5 prospect in the entire game, and arguably the best - for a very good starting pitcher and a mediocre starter or good reliever. They still aren't likely to win the division, nor will they be likely to next year, and suddenly that "best farm system in the history of the game" is all for naught. This is something I hope Hahn is able to do a little better than Williams. It's a more conservative path and requires a deeper and better minor league system. However, you can also restock the minor league system faster as well. Hopefully the Sox can continue stockpiling minor league power arms, and maybe in the near future they can deal Nate Jones and'/or Addison Reed. Honestly, there aren't a lot of pieces the Sox can deal right now, but in the next 3-5 years there could be. Stay patient and conservative and only make deals that make sense. Overpaying for players is working right into the hands of guys like Beane and Friedman and they will continue to make those deals 100% of the time, so you better be sure that, if you are overpaying for someone, it's not to compete for a division title but instead to win a goddamn World Series. If you overpay, that division better be gift-wrapped, ready for delivery. I disagree. I think with the front offices and agents relying more on stats makes the players more worried about the numbers than the game sometimes even the win. Pitchers come out earlier to preserve their stats. Hitters no loner hit to the right side to move the runners because it will diminish their stats, even though it can help scoring. It's obviously not all hitters or pitchers but I think this idea is prevalent. Of course as players the money is a factor. They will fall in line to get the bigger contract if that is what everyone is looking for.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 04:15 PM) FWIW, Greinke pitched four innings against our AAA roster today. Things are looking encouraging, according to the LA Times. Currently receiving PRP Therapy, the same one they used with Billingsley. BTW, in the current Sox ST going on, Jordan Danks is 11 for his last 15 and just tried to bunt with a runner on 1st and two outs, haha. Make that 12 for his last 16, or .750. Two hard hit balls today. He's definitely making things interesting. For muscle and tendon injuries the PRP has been getting better and better results in the literature with new delivery methods.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) Which is the case anytime Don Cooper is interviewed. He might be the best pitching coach in the game, but he is a dick during interviews. He grew up in New York, what did you expect?

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 11:45 AM) This article tries to provide some perspective by citing comparative injuries: http://www.southsidesox.com/2013/3/20/4125...urgery-pitchers That article is pretty much on the money. There were two primary factors that they left out. First the length of time that he couldn't throw prior to the surgery left his rotator cuff in a comparatively weakened condition. The cuff wasn't involved much even though the article stated that his subscapularis tendon tear had healed. I still think it was a misdiagnosis found by MRI. As stated in the article, MR imaging is not real accurrate especially in the shoulder where there are so many structures in a small area. Inflammation in one anatomical structure could easily be mistaken for the others. The second factor is the new thermal shrinking technique for the capsule. Physician's don't like to do the surgery because there can be alot involved with cutting the capsule and suturing it up just right. Dr. Romeo uses a device through the scope that uses heat to srink the capsule instead of relying only on the sutures. I'm sure many of the other physician's use them as well but they weren't as available or trusted until a few years ago. This is why all of the different pitcher's injuries need to be taken individually and cannot always be generalized. I tear that is more anterior is very different from one that is more inferior. The comorbidity factors of cuff or labrum injuries is a good point though.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 20, 2013 -> 09:09 AM) I'm in the middle on this... Should we be patient with Danks coming back from this? Yes. Absolutely. Should we be a little afraid the Sox gave 5 years/65 mil to a guy that may never be an above average major league starter again? Hell yes. I'm not saying it was a bad deal at the time. It would just be unfortunate if the Sox don't get the value back for that investment. Since he hasn't been able to pitch, I'm sure most of it has been covered by insurance and Danks is getting workers comp. This means he is actually making more money as he is exempt from some of the taxes.