ptatc

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 06:09 PM) i think the government does plenty of shady crap, believe me, but I also don't trust people at a local level. Hell that congressman in Kansas who prayed for the President's death - who prayed that his wife would be widowed and his kids would be fatherless - would have even MORE power. That's not acceptable either. but i also don't think the world is black and white. I think there are some things the government should have their hands in, and some things they shouldn't. guns are certainly one of those things the government should be involved in. When it comes to the welfare of the majority of the people (guns, civil rights, etc), I think the government has a responsibility to do what it can to that end. And yes, you're going to say 'well what constitutes the welfare of the majority of people' and to that I'd say... that's why I vote Democrat. I agree with your comments in theory. But the "where does it stop" that scares me. If we can guarantee what the politician can change and what they can't it would be different. You have to have the belief that they will do the right thing. However, as stated earlier if you think that anyone can commit the atrocities like Germany did, this should really give you pause that they will do the right thing.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 05:31 PM) *slow clap* If you agree with all of this, why are you happy with allowing the government to have more control over anything? If the normal people currently in our government are capable of these atrocities then you should push for government de-regulation so they cannot do this type of thing.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 05:08 PM) I get that people who are part of the majority do not want to believe that it was just a regular guy who would become the one to flip the switch for the gas chambers, but that is the truth. Even Schindler, who was one of the best towards the Jews, only did it for money to start. He was using Jews from forced labor. It was only after he saw his "workers being murdered" that he got upset because he was losing a valuable commodity. Most humans accept speciesism. Whether its okay to kill a fly, a mouse, a chicken, whatever. Most people have a point where they think "its okay to kill that" or "its okay to test on that" or "its okay to work it to death." In Nazi Germany it became acceptable that Jews were less than Human. So normal human rights did not apply. They did not think they were doing anything wrong. If Germany would have won, would all of those poor unfortunate Germans have freed the Jews? Would they have stopped killing Jews? No. They wanted the Jews eradicated. It wasnt just Hitler or a handful of people. Therein lies the key. Forced labor, slavery all of that while horrible does not come near to what Hitler and some of the SS death squad who were mostly deposed aristocracy) did. These were a select few who needed to blame someone for theie problems. Once Hitler came along with his "philosophy" the selceted group jumped on it.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 04:59 PM) Not really. Hitler used the Beer Hall Putsch and his subsequent arrest/media exposure to as a way to become a public figure. I think you are confusing once Hitler was already powerful and the Brown Shirts (Nazi supporters) began to attack the German military. The German military was separate from Hitler to start and under Hindenburg. When the Brown Shirts (SA) got out of control, Hitler had to destroy the SA and Rohm to show that he was not supporting the violence on the street. If you are interested its called "Night of Long Knives" when the SS (Hitlers guard) kills the SA (Rohm and the Brownshirts, the thugs). I disagree. A normal person can do these things. If you look at history, it is more common for people to do things like Hitler to minorities, than for people to treat minorities equally. Normal people thought slaves werent human, normal people thought Jews werent human. They werent killing a human. They were killing a Jew, a Christ killer who killed God and destroyed Germany. The Jews were the reason that Germans were poor. The Jews were the reason why all of the bad things happened. In America we have no problem shooting terrorists with drones. Most normal Americans dont care. Yet you believe normal Germans cared about Jews, who were considered enemies of the state and were worse than terrorists? They were normal people. This is exactly what I am talking about. In 100 years it will be that Hitler acted alone, that not 1 German civilian went along with it. You just proved my point. The people in the military went along with it. They did not stop Hitler. They did not say no even though Hitler took more power then he was given. They were complicit. The German army was separate from Hitler to start, but they had no problem supporting him. That is the point, you just made the point. Regular people were part of the Holocaust. Regular soldiers from all parts of Germany. Your comparison isnt very good. It would be like saying that if Obama dissolved govt and then the military by choice joined in with Obama and then none of the people stood up against Obama and said he was wrong. You can claim its fear, but that isnt the point. The point is, regular people, due to fear, due to want, due to who cares, killed millions of humans. To say anything else is to just further perpetrate the myth that somehow Nazi Germany is "different" and that "wont happen anywhere else. Again I guess I just disagree with the big picture here. Hitler and the people who ran this were not "normal." I used the example of our President to the fact that I believe with the number of people in Congress and the Supreme Court there are enough people that would stop this before it happens. Throughout history there are a few examples of things like Nazi Germany rising. However there are many many more examples of sane people putting a stop to it. If you truly believe that Hitler and his close associates are normal people. You need to do alittle more research or I'm am afraid for society as we progress forward. Again I'm not saying that none of the German agreed with him. He happened to catch a country that was ripe for this type of thing. They were in extreme poverty caused by other countries putting sanctions on them and making them pay for the previous war they had just lost. The entire country blamed the other countries around them for their problems. So with his friends and backing along with his extraordinary oratory skills (I hope I spelled that right) Germany was in a unique position for someone like him to come along.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 04:59 PM) Not really. Hitler used the Beer Hall Putsch and his subsequent arrest/media exposure to as a way to become a public figure. I think you are confusing once Hitler was already powerful and the Brown Shirts (Nazi supporters) began to attack the German military. The German military was separate from Hitler to start and under Hindenburg. When the Brown Shirts (SA) got out of control, Hitler had to destroy the SA and Rohm to show that he was not supporting the violence on the street. If you are interested its called "Night of Long Knives" when the SS (Hitlers guard) kills the SA (Rohm and the Brownshirts, the thugs). I disagree. A normal person can do these things. If you look at history, it is more common for people to do things like Hitler to minorities, than for people to treat minorities equally. Normal people thought slaves werent human, normal people thought Jews werent human. They werent killing a human. They were killing a Jew, a Christ killer who killed God and destroyed Germany. The Jews were the reason that Germans were poor. The Jews were the reason why all of the bad things happened. In America we have no problem shooting terrorists with drones. Most normal Americans dont care. Yet you believe normal Germans cared about Jews, who were considered enemies of the state and were worse than terrorists? They were normal people. This is exactly what I am talking about. In 100 years it will be that Hitler acted alone, that not 1 German civilian went along with it. You just proved my point. The people in the military went along with it. They did not stop Hitler. They did not say no even though Hitler took more power then he was given. They were complicit. The German army was separate from Hitler to start, but they had no problem supporting him. That is the point, you just made the point. Regular people were part of the Holocaust. Regular soldiers from all parts of Germany. Your comparison isnt very good. It would be like saying that if Obama dissolved govt and then the military by choice joined in with Obama and then none of the people stood up against Obama and said he was wrong. You can claim its fear, but that isnt the point. The point is, regular people, due to fear, due to want, due to who cares, killed millions of humans. To say anything else is to just further perpetrate the myth that somehow Nazi Germany is "different" and that "wont happen anywhere else. For this part, I guess we disagree on the definition of normal. This does happen throughout history. What Stalin did to his own people is nothing compared to what Hitler did to the Jews. However, anyone who can do this to people, even the bully in the school who beats on other kids for fun, I do not consider normal.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 04:59 PM) Not really. Hitler used the Beer Hall Putsch and his subsequent arrest/media exposure to as a way to become a public figure. I think you are confusing once Hitler was already powerful and the Brown Shirts (Nazi supporters) began to attack the German military. The German military was separate from Hitler to start and under Hindenburg. When the Brown Shirts (SA) got out of control, Hitler had to destroy the SA and Rohm to show that he was not supporting the violence on the street. If you are interested its called "Night of Long Knives" when the SS (Hitlers guard) kills the SA (Rohm and the Brownshirts, the thugs). I disagree. A normal person can do these things. If you look at history, it is more common for people to do things like Hitler to minorities, than for people to treat minorities equally. Normal people thought slaves werent human, normal people thought Jews werent human. They werent killing a human. They were killing a Jew, a Christ killer who killed God and destroyed Germany. The Jews were the reason that Germans were poor. The Jews were the reason why all of the bad things happened. In America we have no problem shooting terrorists with drones. Most normal Americans dont care. Yet you believe normal Germans cared about Jews, who were considered enemies of the state and were worse than terrorists? They were normal people. This is exactly what I am talking about. In 100 years it will be that Hitler acted alone, that not 1 German civilian went along with it. You just proved my point. The people in the military went along with it. They did not stop Hitler. They did not say no even though Hitler took more power then he was given. They were complicit. The German army was separate from Hitler to start, but they had no problem supporting him. That is the point, you just made the point. Regular people were part of the Holocaust. Regular soldiers from all parts of Germany. Your comparison isnt very good. It would be like saying that if Obama dissolved govt and then the military by choice joined in with Obama and then none of the people stood up against Obama and said he was wrong. You can claim its fear, but that isnt the point. The point is, regular people, due to fear, due to want, due to who cares, killed millions of humans. To say anything else is to just further perpetrate the myth that somehow Nazi Germany is "different" and that "wont happen anywhere else. for the violence I was referring back when he was a starving artist and when people would scoff at his work, he and his friends would bully them and beat them. This progressed to the way he made it through local politics. I've read the Night of yhe Long Knives as well as many other books about him. Have you read Mein Kampf? If you have then you should know about his philosophy the way he made his way in politics.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) i'm sorry. most of the higher ranking officers probably didn't shoot a single jew. it was the grunts that bore that burden. and yes, they were just regular people following orders. In most cases it has the higher ranking people who did the work. The grunts just rounded them up. At the concentration camps, it was mostly the higher ranking "Nazis" that did. Don't get me wrong there were plenty of people who sided with them and did the dirty work as well. However, I still wouldn't consider these people normal. All societies have these people in the general population, look at the people on the streets who just flat out shoot people.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 12:11 PM) Surgery for Corey Hart, will miss the first month or so of the season. That is a long time for the meniscus. The must be repairing it and not just doing a menisectomy. I see he had an arthoscope on this knee last year as well. He must be running short on the meniscus.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 03:35 PM) I guess Im not done ranting. When you argue that guns would have stopped Hitler, you are creating the false impression that somehow Hitler did this against the will of the German people. The German people wanted it. It would be like if 99% of Americans wanted to kill Native Americans. It doesnt matter if the Native Americans have guns, if they have horses, if they have an army. If you are the minority, guns wont save you. What you need is for people to recognize minority oppression and stop it before it happens. And yah that sometimes leads to people losing rights, or the govt creating stupid laws like "hate crimes". But if you really want to stop the Holocaust 2.0, those are the tradeoffs. The gun holocaust argument is a disgrace to every person who actually suffered under Hitler. Comments like this need to be destroyed. Germany was arguably the most scientifically advanced nation in the world. Due to dire circumstances they turned to Hitler for hope and believed that the Jews were really the cause of their problems. That if the Jews were killed Germany would be okay. THESE WERE NORMAL PEOPLE WHO MASSACRED THE JEWS. THIS COULD HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES. When you let hate control, when you let people say things like "Illegal immigrants are causing the US ...." you are going down the path of Goebbels. Your comment is the exact reason that we have to be so vigilant. Because it can happen anywhere, it can happen anywhere, it can happen anywhere. Jews were killed in Germany, Jews were killed in Spain, Jews were killed in Israel, Jews were killed in Russia, Jews were killed in Egypt, Jews were killed in ... It can happen anywhere. It is not about guns, it is not about "everyone is going to stand up for a minority, no one would ever lose control", bulls***. Even in America, lest we forget Native Americans, Japanese internment, Muslims after 9/11. And yes, it never got as far as Germany. But that is the point, if you ask a Jew who stayed in Germany, they always think "It never would go that far, these people were are neighbors are friends". Sorry but most of you just will never understand. You just cant understand. This is like saying Americans wanted President Obama. Did the majority obviously. However, this was only to make Hitler Chancellor not dictator. Hitler took that. It would be like the President getting his supporters in the military than dissolving congress and the supreme court. The German people did not vote for that.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 03:35 PM) I guess Im not done ranting. When you argue that guns would have stopped Hitler, you are creating the false impression that somehow Hitler did this against the will of the German people. The German people wanted it. It would be like if 99% of Americans wanted to kill Native Americans. It doesnt matter if the Native Americans have guns, if they have horses, if they have an army. If you are the minority, guns wont save you. What you need is for people to recognize minority oppression and stop it before it happens. And yah that sometimes leads to people losing rights, or the govt creating stupid laws like "hate crimes". But if you really want to stop the Holocaust 2.0, those are the tradeoffs. The gun holocaust argument is a disgrace to every person who actually suffered under Hitler. Comments like this need to be destroyed. Germany was arguably the most scientifically advanced nation in the world. Due to dire circumstances they turned to Hitler for hope and believed that the Jews were really the cause of their problems. That if the Jews were killed Germany would be okay. THESE WERE NORMAL PEOPLE WHO MASSACRED THE JEWS. THIS COULD HAPPEN IN THE UNITED STATES. When you let hate control, when you let people say things like "Illegal immigrants are causing the US ...." you are going down the path of Goebbels. Your comment is the exact reason that we have to be so vigilant. Because it can happen anywhere, it can happen anywhere, it can happen anywhere. Jews were killed in Germany, Jews were killed in Spain, Jews were killed in Israel, Jews were killed in Russia, Jews were killed in Egypt, Jews were killed in ... It can happen anywhere. It is not about guns, it is not about "everyone is going to stand up for a minority, no one would ever lose control", bulls***. Even in America, lest we forget Native Americans, Japanese internment, Muslims after 9/11. And yes, it never got as far as Germany. But that is the point, if you ask a Jew who stayed in Germany, they always think "It never would go that far, these people were are neighbors are friends". Sorry but most of you just will never understand. You just cant understand. They were not normal people. Most of the higher ranking people were just sick with power or had other problems. The people at the lower levels were just afraid for their lives as their neighbors disappeared. Let's take medicine for example. Where did he get the idea that cold can help injuries. How cold can the the skin get before it breaks down? It all comes from experiences that the Nazi physician's did with freezing (and killing people at the concentration camps. These people are not normal. A normal human being could not do that to another.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Im not going to read 4 pages because its the weekend and Im not at work so Im not being paid to read the internet today. But I agree America has become weak, but its because of people that believe that they some how need the govt or need guns to protect themselves. We are god damn human beings, we are arguably the smartest animals on the planet, possibly in our solar system, possibly in the galaxy, and there are people that think they need a stupid weapon to stop the govt. They think that they need the govt to stop people from taking drugs, they need the govt to stop gay people from getting married, they need the govt to protect their soul because they are so fearful of god and going to hell. Screw that, I am so tired of this victim mentality in the United States. But I digress, the pen is mightier than the sword. Hitler didnt take over Germany through brute force, he took over Germany through clever thought and manipulation. Guns are a hope for the weak and scared, for those that think somehow a weapon under their pillow will keep them safe from all the monsters in the night. You might as well put up a dream catcher while youre at it. You want to be brave, you want to be a real man, put down the weapon, you dont need it. Duke, And if you want to talk about the Holocaust and about stopping it, why dont you ask people who actually survived? Have you ever met a holocaust survivor? What about someone who lived in Germany and escaped the Nazis? Or maybe someone who escaped Stalin? Because I have family members who did. And let me be honest, not one of them wants the nonsensical bulls*** that somehow having guns would have stopped that. All that guns would have done, was turned nights like "Kristallnacht" into the slaughter of Jews by German civilians with guns. You want to respect the Jews who survived, the people who actually were a part of the horrific nightmare you are so worried about, dont use them as an excuse for your arguments. Its disrespectful to not only the survivors of the holocaust, but to the hundreds of millions of jews who have been slaughtered through out history. Killing Jews was going to happen with guns or without guns, if you want to stop that, then maybe you should start railing against religion in govt and separation of church and state. You should want the President to stop swearing in on the Bible, you should want no prayer in school. Those are the ideas that lead to a Holocaust. Guns are nothing more than an instrument to carry out the idea. And quite frankly you should read about the Holocaust and WWII, because you will find out that Nazis learned very quickly that guns are a very inefficient tool for murder. Its just so tiring to hear people constantly refer to the Holocaust, when mathematically it can only have impacted less than 5% of the entire world. The Holocaust was about a majority turning on a minority. Guns wont stop that, the majority would have the guns, it would if anything, give the minority less of a chance. I think thats enough on this nonsense topic. Much of Hitler's influence began with mobs and beatings. He did it politically as time went on but early on he strong armed his way like a mafia influence.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 19, 2013 -> 12:50 PM) I'd be shocked if they played worse than .574 against those 3 teams. CLE & MIN still suck, and they are due to play better vs. KC. I've been saying that since the 70's. It never seems to happen for any length of time. When it does we win the division. I know I'm probably exaggerating but it really seems this way.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 12:59 PM) Follow up for Ptatc, if you don't mind. How would it work for the baseline test if a player loaded up on an artificial (IE-undetectable) steroid to keep him "baseline" levels high? It would be really difficult to do this. You would need to take an epitesterone agent (natural or masking agent) to make the levels exactly the same (given a certain standard error of measure). Since the lab will have the normal baseline it would be near impossible to simulate that baseline with injecting the exact amount of covering agent. The amount of PED in the system would cycle and the athlete would have to try to simulate all of this.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 06:18 PM) CTL just said if Arians was hired, Whisenhunt would have bee the OC and Russ Grimm the line coach. That would have made for a good offense. They worked well together in Pittsburgh.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) I can safely say that management is vastly overpaid and that they do not add value in the same proportion that they are paid over the workers who actually produce and provide the products. This explosion of c-level compensation is a relatively recent phenomenon. My standard is high because my point is that there's a lot of people in poverty and relying on aid because there's no damn jobs out there right now. Pointing to jobs that require substantial education, as ss2k5 did, doesn't really address that. This program would help keep them employed and doing things until the job market improves. If it doesn't, they are a contrbuting members of society. If the market doesn't improve these people by your definition will be unemployed anyway, so give them a job no matter how menial.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 12:54 PM) When I was unemployed I was required to go to some sort of training seminar one time. Most of it focused on how to use the IDES website for job searching but it was fairly worthless. It needs to be more substantial then.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 11:26 AM) Beckham doesn't have good range. Trading Ramirez to put Beckham at SS is one of the worst ideas of the off season. I think you are mistaken here. He goes into the outfield to throw guys out and ranges far behind second to do the same. I'm not sure if it would be great at SS but to say he doesn't have good range, is a little harsh.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) They are not being "kept" on welfare or unemployment. Soup kitchens didn't cause the Great Depression. Working some menial temp job isn't going to get you an engineering or IT education. It's only a temp job, if you don't work to do anything else. As I stated earlier. Make a college prep part of it or something else.It's not like the current system is preparing them for anything else. Many people go into a depression and lose self-worth when they aren't a contributer to society. I really believe you will help the self image of many people by giving them employment along with monetary aid, instead of just monetary aid with no contribution.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:07 AM) lol google is your friend Because everything on the internet is true. Just ask my French model girlfriend! I couldn't resist, I use that commercial for the benefit of my kids and students all the time.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:06 AM) Compared to where they're usually coming from and where they go afterwards, politicians really don't make that much. That's more about power and access than the wages paid. It's the employment they get after they leave office that is the real incentive for most cases.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:03 AM) What do you do for the government? Because outside a few government jobs, which I understand need to be filled because the state does have some functions it has to attend to, they could never cut it in the private world. EDIT- Actually, I doubt the veracity of what you're saying. I dont usually ask for proof of anything (because its a waste of time), but I wonder. University professor for a state affiliated school. We used to be state schools but since the state support for the school has dropped 60% in the last 10 years, I now refers to us as state affiliated.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 10:01 AM) Government workers are generally paid less than their private-sector colleagues. Duke doesn't know what he's talking about. I wouldn't go that far. Gernally, yes. However, there are some (politicians) that I may disagree with.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:56 AM) they don't, which makes it hard to apply for them! society doesn't, but it doesn't do a lot to help educate them, either. This could be part of the program . One day a wek as work starts there is an information session on these types of things. Even in the current system. Maybe they should make it mandatory to go to an information session on this type of thing.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:57 AM) See, that's the opposite of a safety net program. Can't work that day? Sorry, you don't eat. No, I categorically reject that. I disagree. That is the what it is for most labor employment. If only miss one or two days for legitimate reasons (sickness, medical) it will not effect your ability to eat that day. Let's not get melodramatic.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Jan 17, 2013 -> 09:55 AM) So government workers getting paid the ludicrous amounts that they do have the added benefit of having no real skill. Great, I'm loving this more and more. I'm starting to feel self-conscious about myself the more you say that first part. but since I really don't fall into the second category, I guess I feel better. Not all of us who work for the government get paid alot and they are trying to take our pensions (the only benefit to the job) away.