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QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 23, 2011 -> 07:51 AM) And as I always say when this topic comes up...the fact that its illegal means you'll never get a double-blind clinical study of the actual effects of the abuse. It might be that 40% of the people who use it heavily explode like Bonds, 20% see improved visual acuity and some muscle gain but not immense, 20% have ligaments that tear themselves apart, and 20% wind up dead, and you wouldn't know. randomized double blind studies are rare in all medical literature due to confidentiality, HIPPA and FERPA concerns as well as patient consent. However, walk into an NFL locker room and you'll know. The most obvious sign for HGH is the head changing shape. It usually has the Jay Leno chin effect and the protruding forehead. Of course you can't prove it. there are many studies done on the lower dosage HGH for the treatment of dwarfism and some muscular diseases. All of this research shows the improvement in growth and the increased muscle strength and endurance.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 22, 2011 -> 07:48 PM) I just personally don't believe that HGH could have this type of an effect on any hitter simply due to the nature of the product. It doesn't seem to drastically increase the strength of a person. If there is any effect, it's simply improving vision. It (apparently) leans you out and will help with day to day recovery, but there is no real indication of that. And it wasn't a slight swing adjustment either, it's a very drastic change that he has made and it's basically been a complete overhaul of his swing. I'm not sure where you got this information but HGH has a huge effect. The athletes just need to take more of it and it costs more. The dosage given out to the appropriate patient's doesn't have drastic effects just enough to stimulate normal growth. However, in the amount athletes take, it makes drastic changes. Look at the NFL. Most of the players are on it. The medical staff will tell you, they estimate 75-80% of players are on it. This is the current PED of choice because the only somewhat reliable test is through a blood test. No union, MLB or NFL has given in to allow blood test, for some valid reasons. I'm sure there are some designer anabolics out there but nobody has found them yet. Labs cannot test for PEDS in general. They need to know what to test for. So if they don't know about it, they cannot test for it. The IOC may be coming out with a program that could change this. What they will do is take a baseline blood sample. If anything changes, they may not know what they are taking but they will know they are taking something to effect the T/E ratio.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 19, 2011 -> 07:39 AM) And Joe Maddon is a smart enough manager to sit Joyce against lefties cause he can't hit them, instead of putting him in a situation to fail like many other managers would do. Most of the FAs the Rays lost are struggling with their new teams too I don't think this should last for very long. You want a young player to build his confidence but you don't want to take a talented player and make him a platoon player. If he always sits against LHP he will have no chance to become a star.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 18, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) I guess I'd be more accepting if McPherson wasn't the alternative. But he's not young. So Ozzie automatically likes him. Both KW and Ozzie do prefer veterans.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2011 -> 02:56 PM) and if I stay it will be double Should I stay or should I go?

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 17, 2011 -> 05:32 PM) OK, I don't agree with it either. But if he refuses to change his rationale and open his eyes, then he has to go. What are we arguing about? I wasn't saying that I disagreed with you. What I said was that this is the way Ozzie will operate and probably the way most managers will operate so while your points have some validity, nothing is going to change. They will always look for the sterotypical leadoff hitter and it mostly likely won't change even if Ozzie is gone. You can get mad about it but in the end it will just drive you crazy. Like my problems with the Adam Dunn type hitter. Because he puts the ball in play at a low rate due to the huge amounts of walks and strikeouts he loses many opportunities to drive in runs. With a guy on 3rd he would just need to make contact to drive him in but the walks look good in the stats but it doesn't help the team win. Before anyone goes off on me with the advantages of OBP, OPS etc., I understand it's valuable. However it doesn't help me during the game when the offense is struggling and he is looking for walks instead of driving in the run. You can either let the situation drive you nuts or let it go, because in both situation, it isn't changing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2011 -> 10:59 AM) You can make the opposite case quite easily here. He's settling into doing exactly what he needs to do, being somewhat patient and killing the ball when pitchers pitch to him. But...he's been doing that for all of what, 2, 3 weeks now, and doing so without having to break through a second slump? There's benefit long-term to having him getting used to beating people up just like this in AAA. That doesn't mean this is the best thing for winning the Central this year, but if you want to do the best thing possible for DV's long term development...a few more weeks/a couple months of this level of performance in AAA is the best thing you can do for him. i agree and it's the most likely reason why he is still there. He could be a future star and is progressing nicely. The only thing he hasn't had is patience, so let him continue to work on it.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ May 18, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) Agreed. And the Brewers will compete in that lousy division before too long. No way Hamels leaves. Why would anyone want to leave the best team in baseball to play for a team in decline? with the money that Lee and Halladay make, I would bet he is one of the most likely to leave.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 17, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) If neither Lillibridge nor Vizquel can handle the full time duty, perhaps they can share it . Rios hasn't been much of a run producer, that's for sure. But he's fast and is a better hitter than Pierre. I can look at the back of Roberto Alomar's baseball card. I think he'd be a great fit as our leadoff hitter. Oh wait, his skill set is so diminished that he cannot suffice anymore? That seems to be the same problem with Pierre. Oh well, Pierre is already on the team so he should be fine. It boils down to this. The best argument anyone can make in favor of this move is "it is what it is." I'm not not making an argument that it's right. I'm just saying this is what he is going to do, and it's probably not different from what most managers would do. There really isn't another option currently on this team or in the system from Ozzie's point of view. I see his rationale but I don't really agree with it.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ May 17, 2011 -> 05:10 PM) Whoever hits leadoff would be as much of a leadoff hitter as Juan Pierre has been. It would be damn near impossible to suck as much at getting on base and stealing bases as Pierre has. Remember the debacle of putting a non-leadoff type guy with a career high OBP in the leadoff spot? Ozzie does. When the Sox tried Swisher who had a high career OBP, he couldn't handle the leadoff position and had his worst year. This experiment just reinforced Ozzie's idea of the leadoff hitter archetype.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 17, 2011 -> 05:12 PM) Look, Juan Pierre is the worst player in baseball. Anybody would be better than him. If it absolutely must be a fast guy, then it can be Lillibridge or Vizquel or Rios. "I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups." This argument is so flawed. You're basically saying that, because Ozzie is bad at managing and sticks to a bad theory of who has to lead off, we have to be content with his decision to leave Pierre in the leadoff spot. And even if that were the case, I just mentioned three other guys who are capable of taking his spot. I'm not saying it's right. All I'm saying is that that is what is going to happen. Vizquel is too old to handle the duty full time. Lillibridge is has proven that he can't handle full time duty and Rios is more of a run producer. Ozzie knows Pierre is off to a bad start but he also thinks that based on history he will get better. What's the quote that Stone uses "look at the back of the baseball card." I know you dislike Ozzie but this is what he and most other mangers will do. You can let it frustrate you all you want but it's not changing.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 17, 2011 -> 05:03 PM) Perhaps that guy will know the difference between a good speedy player and a bad speedy player. I would hope that most managers, upon realizing that their leadoff hitter is the worst professional baseball player in the game, would go to the next best option. But the Sox do not have that good speedy guy anywhere near ready for full time play. So, the only option is to stick with Pierre.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 17, 2011 -> 03:57 PM) There is no need to bring up Dallas in the first place. That's the whole point. Make a move that actually helps your team. Subbing Dallas for Teahen does nothing since he'll be riding bench anyway. Bring up Dayan with the extra roster spot and have him play for Pierre. Why is this so hard for people to understand? Because Ozzie will not have a leadoff hitter. This is the way most mangers want their team constructed and there would be no one capable of filling this role if Pierre is not in the lineup. I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 17, 2011 -> 04:30 PM) Its real simple. The only way that Juan is out of the lineup is the following. 1.) Pierre retires, not happening. 2.) Pierre is injured. Not happening. 3.) Kenny gets fed up and takes away Guillens toys. Not happening. This is the same manager who was going to start Jerry Owens over Quentin. He believes that the leadoff hitters are fast grindy guys who distrupt pitchers on the basepaths. He learned this from his time with the Marlins. Pods was to elmulate Juan Pierre as that disruptive force on the basepaths. Do you think for a minute that Guillen is going to change his mind on his philosophy. Its not going to happen. He will demote Juan from leadoff for a short period of time in hopes of getting him fixed. The minute he strings a game or two together he is back at the top of the lineup. So the only way Viciedo makes it up before the Allstar break is if Quentin or another OF gets injured. We replace people on the DL in the most part based on what position they played. If a SS gets hurt, they are bringing up a SS. This entire experience is maddening of watching Pierre auto-out and kick the ball. But its going to happen a lot this year. Everyone is acting like Ozzie is the only manager that wants the speedy, pitcher-disrupting guy at the top of the lineup. Almost every manager tries to do this. I hate to tell everyone this but the guy who replaces Ozzie will try to do the same thing.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 17, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) Thats to give him a mental rest. He will be back in the lineup tomorrow. The Guillen vision of a lineup starts with a fast grindy guy up top who disrupts on the basepaths. He has wanted a Juan Pierre like player since he came here, he is not going to give up on the actual Juan Pierre. He will start with this rest, then he will demote him to 9th which inevitably makes him worthless on this team. The minute he has a decent game, he is back at the top of the lineup. Ozzie Guillen in his mind believes that Juan Pierre is the secret ingredient to making the offense go. His rotating DH idea last year should show you that he believes some slap and tickle baseball filled up with generating lots of outs in the name of hustle will solve all problems. This is why DV will not replace Pierre. Ozzie likes this type of guy at the top of the order. If Pierre is out of the lineup, the Sox do not have this type of player.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 10, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) John danks does not make the team not score runs for Danks. Just an excuse for losers. Good pitchers will win alot of games over their career. There maybe an outlier year where the lose despite pitching well but over a career they will win games. I personally don't care about the stats for pitchers. The only one that matters is if the team wins when they pitch. No they don't control all the variables but they are the primary factor. I'm a bigger White Sox fan than I am a John Danks fan. I want him do well only because it helps the team win.

Danks had a comment in the paper about the support of his backbone during this tough stretch. The backbone included his family and agent. There is no way he is not filing for free agency and testing the proverbial waters.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 8, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) Has Peavy been with the big league club in the dugout much this season? I wish in between minor league starts they'd have had him in our MLB dugout. He seems like a bad ass that wouldn't stand for some of the horses*** play we've had during the season-opening skid. Everyone on the team would laugh at him. Guys who are on the DL and aren't playing are ignored especially one who has been out as long as he has. It's the "big talk from a guy who hasn't helped us" mentality. Once he si pitching for thebig club it will change though.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ May 6, 2011 -> 11:49 PM) What about Baines? Only if the players don't mind learning from as mime. He is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet and was an outstanding ballplayer. However, I don't know if I've ever heard him string two sentences together.

QUOTE (forrestg @ May 6, 2011 -> 10:24 PM) I know that Walt Hriniak had great influence on the swings of frank Thomas and Robin Ventura's. I hear very little about Robin but I was wondering if anyone thinks either would be any good as a hitting coach. They both had such great swings. Hawk always described Ventura as "sweet swinging Robin" Frank, a loyal student of Hriniak. I know that just because someone did something well doesn't necessarily mean that they could teach hitting. just wanted to hear what people thought. Walker learned under Lau and Hriniak as well. Thomas had that front swing that only he Aaron and Clemente could use. He could talk philosophy but not mechanics.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 5, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) Nothing short of injury will stop him from being a star. I look at skillset moreso than I do raw numbers. I'd trade anybody on our team for Castro. he can hit but until he learns to actually catch and throw the ball he cannot be considered even a good shortstop.

QUOTE (Real @ May 4, 2011 -> 08:39 PM) Rose has decided to be a jump shooter again, when will he learn he needs to initiate contact in the paint With the sore and unstable ankle, he may not hava choice for awhile. He will have difficulty moving laterally and quickly changing directions.

QUOTE (LVSoxFan @ May 4, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) Sorry, that's all you got? That story from back in the Giants days? Which we've all already heard? Again, I'm hearing very few specifics, just insinuations and gossip. Remember when Garland was asked about him during the WS run and his reply was "we tolerate him." There was an incident in the minors where a pitcher wouldn't listen to him so when the next guy tried to steal he threw the ball into center field. His comment was "will you listen next time." You don't have to believe any of this but I was there for that one. It's not just about specific issues. How do you know when someone is a bully? It's just part of their everyday attitude. He has had many problems and will continue to have them. Go ahead and think he's an ok guy. Because in the it doesn't matter if he helps the team, people tolerate it. When the team is doing poorly, people will complain. These guys are professional enough to deal with it, that's why most of the time it never discussed.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 3, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) Not bball, but yes it involved a ball. It hurts like a motherf***er and to this day I have to wear active ankle braces to stabilize it, but he will be able to play through it if its stabilized so it doesnt roll again. Those are my favorites to give to patients. It's near impossible to severely injury your ankle wearing them.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 3, 2011 -> 06:03 PM) You're right, it didn't happen at least not the way it was reported. It was reported AJ took a shot to the nuts, the trainer came rushing out to see how he was and AJ kneed him. Wouldn't there have been a ton of witnesses? If he really kneed him wouldn't the trainer have gone to the ground? It was during warm ups before the game when there weren't many people around. There were alot of team personnel around.The trainer did double over. I know the guy he wouldn't lie about it. The Giants didn't cut him after trading 4 prospects for him because they really thought he was a valuable asset.