ptatc

QUOTE (StatManDu @ Jan 13, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) The Sox had four plays in MLB Network's Countdown 75 Most Spectacular Defensive Plays in MLB History: 41) Calderon's wall-scaling catch in LF at Tiger Stadium on July 27, 1987; 15) Iguchi's flying throw to first from 2B in 2006; 8) Wise's catch which preserved Buehrle's perfect game on July 23, 2009; 6) Buehrle's between the legs throw to first on Opening Day 2010 The most glaring oversight when it comes to the Sox was Uribe's diving catch into the stands in Houston in Game 4 of the 2005 World Series. Others? How about two from the "Black Out Game" when Ken Griffey Jr. threw out a runner at the plate and Brian Anderson's game-ending catch ... On Opening Day 2000, I remember Ray Durham making a phenomenal diving catch with his back to the plate. More? Daryl Boston made a full sprint dive into the stands for a catch. It wasn't just a fall into the stands it was at a full sprint.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 11:37 PM) Ptatc, that's some solid date you provided. But you're arguing something that I don't dispute. I realize what a non-exact science the MLB draft is. That's not really my point. Now look at our current situation with our starting pitching. We've got Peavy, who let's face it, will be a major injury risk from now through the end of his contract. We've got Buehrle, who's a FA after this year. We've got Jackson, who will also be a FA after next year and his agent is that Boras guy that we seem to despise. We've got Danks, who's got only got two arb years left and appears to be determined to test the FA market [hello Yankees]. We've got NOTHING in the minors in terms of SP prospects that we could at least have some hope of stepping in if need be for 2012 or 2013. We NEED Sale to be a starter. We don't have the luxury of saying 'oh well, if worse comes to worse we can stick him in the 'pen.' We're not the Rays. Who can trade a Matt Garza and not really impede their long-term pitching situation in the least. That's why the Hudson trade drove/drives me so crazy. It just wasn't a smart baseball move short or long-term. Edwin Jackson is not a difference maker. Now you go out and trade Hudson or whatever for a Dan Haren? That's a totally different story. You don't give up 6 years of a cheap Hudson for a year and two months of Jackson, especially when his agent is someone we refuse to negotiate with. Now some fans have totally adopted this 'all-in' phenomenon and only care about 2011. Well, I'm not that way. Not too many people were thinking about 2005 when we were trotting out guys like Andy Gonzalez, Jerry Owens, Luis Terrerro, Andy Sisco and Ryan Bukvich and losing 90 games in 2007. I want to go 'all-in' every year, or close to every year. I agree that the team would be better off if he can be a good starter. I hope and think he can be a good starter. However, if it turns out that he is not but is an effective reliever I don't think it is a wasted pick. Your previous point said it's a wasted pick if he is not in the rotation. The draft is so inexact that if the team get an effective player at any position it is a good pick.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 12:11 AM) Well good god damn. Sale has the ability to be an elite closer because KHP says so. Chris Sale is a very special pitcher? Wow. I'm totally stumped. How do I respond to that? Nobody compared Chris Sale to Aaron Poreda. So you can take that bulls*** somewhere else. I've explained myself over and over again regarding this topic. And I don't give a f*** who agrees or disagrees. YOU DO NOT DRAFT A RELIEVER WITH THE 13TH PICK! If you remember, and I'm sure you don't, I created a thread last year begging KW NOT to trade Chris Sale because I liked him so much. But not because I wanted a set-up man or closer. Because I wanted a number 1 or 2 type starter. Is that too much to ask? I don't know and I don't care. In sports, and life in general, you shoot for the stars. Not settle for scraps. And for the 548767843278458432 time. I don't have a problem with the pick IF he's going to be a starter. But like I said before, there were questions about his frame, durability and delivery BEFORE the draft. Now if the Sox scouts or Lauman or whatever drafted him with the idea of will try him as a starter but if worse comes to worse will make him a reliever then they f***ED UP. You can agree or disagree. I really don't care. You're delusional and have somehow created an imaginary J4L that you just feel like arguing with. I'm not doing this anymore. FOR THE LAST f***ING TIME! If Sale ultimately ends up as a reliever then it was a WASTE of a 13th pick. A third or fourth round pick? No problem. Maybe even a second round pick. I don't give a f*** if you agree with me. I'll play the role of Soxtalk villain. I really don't care. I will speak my mind no matter what the consensus is. I think that if you get a good major league player at any position it is a good (not wasted) pick. I wnet back and looked at all of the 10-15 picks in the MLB drafts from 1997-2004. I didn't go anumore recent because the players still have a chance to develop. Here are the picks: 1997 Jon Garland Chris Enochs Aaron Akin Kyle peterson Brandon Larson Jason Dellaero Garland was the only good MLB player 1998 Carlos Pena Josh McKinley Adam Everett JM Gold Jeff Weaver Clint Johnson Pena,Everett,Weaver the only good MLB 1999 Ben Sheets Ryan Christianson Brett Myers Mike Paradis Ty Howington Jason Stumm Sheets, Myers 2000 Joe Torres Dave Krynzel Joe Borchard Shaun Boyd Beau Hale Chase Utley Utley 2001 Chris Burke Kenny Baugh Mike Jones Casey Kotchman Jake Gautreau Gabe Gross Burke, maybe Kotchman and Gross 2002 Drew Myers Jeremy Hermedia Joe Saunders Khalil Greene Russ Adams Scott Kazmir Good draft all bit Myers 2003 Ian Stewart Micheal aubrey Lastings Milledge Aaron Hill Ryan Wagner Brian Anderson Stewart, Hill, Wagner 2004 Thomas diamond Neil Walker Jered Weaver Bill Bray Billy Butler Stephen Drew Walker,Weaver, mayber Butler and Drew It looks to me like from picks 10-15 teams are lucky to get good contributing players. I'll take Sale being good whther it's in the pen or starting. If he's good it will not be a wasted pick.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 09:54 AM) No, I didn't. If you look back at that post I said closers were a dime a dozen. It's actually harder to find consistent middle relief/set-up guys then a guy to get the last three outs of a game. But that's what bullpens are or have evolved into. I don't ever remember bullpens being so inconsistent when I was just starting out as a baseball fan. Then again I was young so whatever. But the last 7 years or so have been ridiculous. Basically, if you're going to draft a reliever or a guy who projects to be a reliever in the first round, you're doing so to make him a closer. The Red Sox didn't draft Daniel Bard to make him a 6th/7th inning guy. It was to eventually supplant Papelbon. Who I think is gone after next year. You find other aspects of a bullpen through other avenues. Whether it be FA signings, which I despise, amateur FA signings or much later on in the draft or through trades. And this is obviously no easy task. Which is why despite having a competent, good or even great closer doesn't assure you of having a good to great bullpen. Sorry, I misread. I still don't agree that closers are easy to find but that is something we've discussed before.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 09:06 AM) Because there's more to having a great bullpen than having someone to close games? I just checked the numbers. There were 29 players in MLB with 20 or more saves last year. Know who had the worst ERA out of all of them? Bobby Jenks. Oh sure, some teams shuffled a player into and out of the closers spot, and there were closers like Dotel and Capps who were traded to bolster a team's middle relief, but think about that...there were 28 other pitchers in MLB who had 20 or more saves...all of whom had better ERA's than Bobby Jenks. His comments were in relation to middle relievers not closers. He said don't even get him started on closer. I disagree with that as well but it's a different discussion. I agree that a bullpen is more than a closer but he seems to think that good relievers are a "dime a dozen" but I just don't see them everywhere in baseball.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 09:16 AM) You just saved me a detailed post. Thanks. I still disagree. If relievers are a "dime a dozen" as you said, then all bullpens should be good. You make it sound like it'a easy to find good relievers. If it is then every team should have a good pen. Give me your detailed post as to why good relievers are a dime a dozen but why not every team has a good bullpen.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 10, 2011 -> 05:58 AM) Never said they were easy to come by. This is all about efficiency. And it's not efficient from a baseball standpoint to invest such a high pick on a guy that ultimately ends up a reliever, no matter how good. Scott Shields was one of the most dominant set-up guys of the last decade and he was a 38th round pick. And please don't tell me you think Sale has a good chance to be as good as Shields, who was absolutely filthy in his prime. Octavio Dotel, Latroy Hawkins, Authur Rhodes and a s***load of other guys that I can't think of off the top of my head were either later round picks or amateur FA signings [i'm talking strictly set-up guys here]. Don't even get me started on closers. They're a dime a dozen. Aside from Rivera, of course. If this is the case why doesn't every team in baseball have a good to great bullpen?

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 01:36 PM) Have studies ever determined whether starters develop more injuries than relievers? I would think the strain of back-to-back days might be greater than the higher inning load/pitch count. There haven't been any that I know of. Injuries can be loosely grouped into two categories, static tissues such as ligaments and cartilage and active tissues such as muscles and the rotator cuff. From my experience starters have more trouble with the static structures and being generally loose. This is due to the increased in pitches thrown. Relievers have more difficulties with muscle type injuries because they aren't in a routine for coming into the game. They may warm up 3-4 times and not get in the game. Freddy Garcia is an example of a pitcher who really can't come out of the pen due to the difficulty with getting warm. In Sale's case his mechanics aren't ideal from my perspective. But they aren't as bad as some. His mechanics are similar to Randy Johnson's. He brings his elbow up first in the early cocking phase so his arm is pointing down for a long time due to the length of the arm. He brings his hand up late so he cannot get his hand up over his head. Thus he throws from a lower arm slot. Like Johnson this will improve movement on the slider but could lead to elbow problems. Some pitchers can handle the mechanics without difficult other can't. No one really knows why. I imagine the Sox will just let him go, watch him closely and see if he starts to have problems. The only pitchers you really try to alter their mechanics before they have injuries are the ones with inconsistent mechanics or ones who ones who walk alot of hitters due to poor mechanics.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 9, 2011 -> 02:32 AM) Thank you. That's all I'm saying. I'm the evil super pessimistic J4L because I'm not rating our offseason A+++++. But you do make a good point about the other teams in our division not doing a whole lot. I'll never ever sleep on the Twins. I don't care if they lose Mauer. Those fools always find a way. I think it's more because you rarely say anything positive about the Sox, including the GM, manager or anything either of them do and not pertaining to this offseason. Everyone knows you're a passionate fan but you sure do torture yourself about everything they do or don't do.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) I know that. But I think some are overrating our offseason. Dunn without question makes us better. Everything else is a toss-up right now. Really? Other than the Dunn signing I can't think of a positive thing you've said about the team?

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 8, 2011 -> 05:14 AM) Saw that the Reds just signed Edgar Renteria. The question is simple: why? Dude is awful. He's been exactly a replacement level player for a while now. I know the Reds couldn't have been dumb enough to be fooled by his World Series performance? It's only 1 year and 3 million. But still. You probably get better production from Paul Janish for less than $500 K. Just a really stupid move for a front office that had been on a roll of late. I'm not saying this is a crippling move or anything. Just doesn't make any sense. The guy knows what leadership is on winning teams. They brought him in to lead the young players. I know you disagree but there is something to be said about veteran leadership with a young team.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 02:50 PM) If you think about it that way, then no. But I'm not talking about it that way. i know. sorry, just being a jerk smarta** today.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) He's gonna get a decent amount of money. He's certainly not worth whatever he might get paid. Is anyone in professional sports?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 02:18 PM) The process of being accredited. An accredited school (you're a prof. ptact, right?) has met the standards of some national standards-setting group. Degrees from unaccredited schools aren't worth much and would probably have a hard time getting accepted at other institutions. It takes a ton of paperwork and effort and if you lose your accredation, you can be in serious trouble. From a Frontline I watched on for-profit schools, an accredited program at a small college is worth something like $10M. This is correct. However, this description is more for a school than an individual program. In the US you need to graduate from an accredited program to sit for your PT license exam, so it is mandatory. I worked for 8 months creating a 300 page spreadsheet on linking our course objectives to the criteria set by the Department of Ed.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) J4L rule number one. Do not use words that I don't know the meaning of. What the hell does accerdiplation or whatever you said means? To keep our physical therapy program, we need to go through a periodic accreditation visit from a section Department of Education. They determine if we have a quality program or not. If they determine we don't, they can shut us down. So I need to be the perfect a** kisser which I'm not very good at.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 02:02 PM) I love the Reds. Post more, my friend. Anyway, could we get Chapman for Juan Pierre? I promise you he's really good. He hits a lot of sexy singles and steals a lot of bases. He would be an upgrade in LF. I promise. Cross my heart and hope to die. YES! Singles are SEXY! I know I'm over doing it but we are sweating out an accreditation visit and I'm full of nervous energy so don't take it personally.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 01:55 PM) If Sale only pitches 70 innings this year, I'm going to think it's a serious step back in his development. I really want him to be in the rotation for at least part of the season, if only to try to keep the innings he works up. He's hit 160 innings each of the last 2 years, but those were in the minors; a normal bullpen load for him would be a real step backwards in building his arm into a major league pitcher's arm. This is where you need to weigh what's best for the player and what's best for the team. The best thing for his development and long term value would be to get him some starts. The best thing for the team this year is to put him in the pen. Unless the Sox think his future is the pen, I would get him ready to start in the Spring and then see what you need when the season begins.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 09:53 AM) Those were a special few years with pure hitters like Gwynn and Boggs around. Agreed. I remember when Nellie Fox was inducted into the HOF, Reggie Jackson said that "they let someone in the HOF who doesn't belong. Fox's widow said "yes, it was a guy who struck out more than 2500 times."

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 02:04 AM) No black man sounds more white than Tony Gywnn ever. This is fact. But he was an eight, I repeat, EIGHT time batting champion who has a career BA of .338 over 20 f***ing seasons. You must be crazy. But his lifetime slugging % is only .459 because hit hit a lot of singles. Can he still be considered a great hitter? Singles are SEXY!!!

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jan 6, 2011 -> 10:22 PM) Not really. I mean it's almost expected for someone who has played this long. Plus, did anybody EVER consider Omar Vizquel a top 5 player in the league...EVER? Actually I think he has only got 1 MVP vote his entire career. To me, that says a lot. Defensively, yes. There is some precedent for putting in players based mostly on defense Ozzie smith, Brooks Robinson. But you need to be "one of the greatest." I think he falls in that category. I would probably so no to the HOF for him but it wouldn't bother me if he did because of the defense.

QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 11:04 AM) Is it a bad thing if he walks with runners in scoring position? Obviously it would be ideal for him to drive them in but Ive never been upset when a hitter walks with runners in scoring position, unless Mark Kotsay was batting behind them. I am. Your hitters in the middle of the lineup are paid this kind of money to drive in runs, not to set up for the next guy. And yes I know they get pitched around but if there is a pitch that is borderline, hit it.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 11:07 AM) Ju's part of his first name. FanGraphs' take on Garza: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/m...s-aaron-harang/ If you don't want to read it, basically, they say Garza's a slightly better version of Aaron Harang and that his ERA might not drop as much as some of us are expecting. I know but it would still have been fun to tease the cub fans.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 11:00 AM) Good move by the Cubs. I would have loved for Lee to stay with the Cubs. I would have had a blast teasing the Cubs fans about their SS named Ju-Lee. Only the Cubs would play a girl at SS in the MLB!

QUOTE (Chi Town Sox @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 10:51 AM) Agreed, but then you think of 2010 and what Mark Kotsay would have done in that position True, like I said I like him in there. I'm just sure his is going to rank with Thomas and Thome as good players who could drive me crazy at times.

QUOTE (IamtheHBOMB @ Jan 7, 2011 -> 10:55 AM) I thought that initially, but they were traded for each other in 1999. They both pitched for the Yankees in the 2002 and 2003 seasons, but Wells wasn't the 2 in either of those rotations. The worst would probably be Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson while in Arizona.