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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:59 PM) It would be a giant HR case for someone to be fire based on something another employee did regardless of their relation to said employee. We haven't even gotten into the legal ramifications if the Sox fired Ozzie based on the actions of his adult child not employed by the Sox.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:56 PM) It's not unreasonable at all. The White Sox didn't hire Oney because he was some genius in the video-editing room or something. They gave him a job as a favor to Ozzie. Every one of the privileges that Oney has been given are a result of the fact that his father is the manager of the Chicago White Sox. If you read back in the thread, I supported Ozzie's natural desire to share parts of his life with his family, and that includes his work experiences. I have no problem with him telling his family about his job. But when you've got a high-profile job, your family has to respect that, and not share that information with the press or really with many people at all. Not only has Oney done that, but he SEEKS out the press to share this information with others. He USES the fact that his father is in a high-profile position for his own gain. Obviously Ozzie can't force Oney to stop doing this, but what the Organization will eventually decide is that if Ozzie cannot stop his family members from sharing sensitive or private White Sox business with the press or with the public via Twitter, then it will sever all ties with the Guillen family. It will remove any chance of the Guillen family having this information from occurring. And it will do that by firing Ozzie Guillen. It is unreasonale to "denounce" you child. I also don't agree with the statement that he should share personal experiences from work with his family. Being in the medical field and working with professional and olympic athletes there is no way I would share what is going on with them personally. This is the only part Ozzie is resposible for but it is not a something he should be fired for, yet. If it continues to happen then I'll be on the band wagon. He cannot control his adult children but he can control what he tells them.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:49 PM) Well, you're the one that started with the football analogies... Well that's just too bad, Rock. If he can't control what his son says, then he should have never trusted him to bring him in the Clubhouse and be around White Sox business. He should be fired. Sorry, but that is how life works. That is not how life works. People don't get fired at work for something their adult children do. We've had employees children hired for summer help, the kids screw up and while they won't hire the employees children again, they don't hire the employee. the last time Oney made an ass of himself the sox fired him. I have not seen major ramifications from that episode.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:44 PM) Completely agree. Oney's family relationship to Ozzie isn't the issue. Ozzie giving Oney access to players and the clubhouse is. If Ozzie had hired Oney as a gofer and Oney pulled this crap, Ozzie would still be responsible for it. This is true except if the info came from the time from when he was employed by the sox, then they are still somewhat responsible. This would fall under the "organization does not share the same views as our employees and thus he was dismissed from the organiztion". Which by the way shows alot about what kind of idiot this kids is. The organization is pretty loyal to the employees.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) See, now you're pointing out that they actually had to FIRE the manager's son. But you are shocked that anyone would now ask Ozzie to publicly denounce this same son? It's clear the kid is an absolute fool and Ozzie needs to completely separate his relationship with his son from his job with the White Sox. This is unreasonable. You do not have control over another person. You can ask them not to talk about things which I'm sure has been done. Since Oney is no longer employed by the Sox all the organization can do is to ask Ozzie not to talk about cetain things with his family. Ozzie may or not have given the info to Oney. If Oney got the info first hand then as his time with the Sox is further removed he will no longer have any info to pass along. Ozzie should state that he does not agree with what his so did but that Oney needs to stand alone because he is an adult (at least chronologically).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:22 PM) And why have Bobby and Oney been close? Because they met in Spirit Lake, Idaho? Did they play American Legion ball together? I met Bob Feller (RIP) in Spirit Lake Iowa but we wern't close.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 03:14 PM) When his tweets have the potential to complicate Ozzie's career then no he can't tweet whatever the hell he wants. I've spent some time at my father's workplace over the years and gotten to know his coworkers, if I starting sharing sensitive, personal information about his former coworkers he'd stomp my f***ing ass and I'd say we have a pretty close relationship. Oney's pampered lifestyle is direct result of his father's hard work and ability to hold a job in the game of baseball, why Oney would want to put that at risk is beyond me. I suppose it arises from that family's ridiculous machismo. Personally, I'll go with Oney being an idiot who didn't think before he acted.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) Yeah, but he's been here his entire career, basically. That's a little different than someone who has no ties here and didn't win a championship here, with this manager. that person who wasn't here wouldn't have known about the distraction in the clubhouse either. It wasn't out there until PK talked about it. You can go around and around with this. It's still something far down the list of priorities when signing as a free agent. The Sox seem to sign a number of free agents. If someone is so weak minded that he won't sign here due to a soap opera distractions, which apparently are exclusive to Chicago, I'm not sure I want them. It's not like the instability from the Mets, LaRussa publically calling out Rasmus, or Giradi feuding with Steinbrenner just to name a few.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) Wait, the same guy who went on the radio after re-signing and claimed that all the bulls*** surrounding Ozzie last season was in fact a distraction and probably affected play on the field? It's funny because the sparing between KW and Oz really got going when Ozzie's son was terminated for being a f***ing asshat which Guillen took as a personal affront. At this point how could anyone think firing Oney was anything but a good move? True. However he did resign indicating that while a distraction this type of thing isn't a primary factor when determining where they want to sign a contract.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:23 PM) I know it's been slow around here. But are people really THAT concerned/bothered with this Ozzie/Oney/Jenks crap? Who cares. Let's drink. Just broke out some Sandeman Tawny Port with lunch since you guys made me hungry and thristy.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:16 PM) But a lot of times it's not just us vs the Pirates. Players typically have a handful of options to choose from. When it's the Sox vs a similar team with a potential for similar success and near equal pay, why go with the soap opera? I'm not denying that the Oney situation could cause some problems. But many players prefer an open coach to one that doesn't communicate and you have no idea where you stand. Showalter was one of these. when a players is making a decision to sign with a team there are many factors. Usually the top factors are(don't go to extremes and imply I'm saying always) Money, length of contract, geography and chance to win. Think of how players have stated "I don't worry about the business end I leave that for my agent, thast's why I pay him." Again, I'm not saying it isn't a factor but it's way down this prioity list. It doesn't effect your pay, home or family.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:11 PM) This reminds me of the debates about whether or not emotions effect play. Of course they do, to say otherwise is silly - these are human beings. Similarly here, I am sure it will have some effect. The real question is, how much of one? On current players or prospective ones? No one can know the answer, but I think we can all say pretty confidently that any effect won't be a positive one. Also... Oh my lord. Ouzo by itself is bad enough, but mixed with Coke? I think I'd rather drink vomit. Let me clarify. The Coke is to drink while eating the Gyro. The ouzo is the dessert. I would never ruin a good liquor by mixing it with coke. That would be awful.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 12:00 PM) It's one thing to hear Ozzie is a goof, or Ozzie is crazy, or whatever. It's another thing to hear or read in print Ozzie's kid say a player is a crybaby, discuss his use of alcohol or drugs, discuss incidents out at a bar, discuss the current state of that player's marriage, etc. You guys can downplay it all you want, but there are players in the MLB who will not even want to touch that situation, or maybe they would come here but would always be guarded. How that is beneficial to us, I dunno...but you guys keep making stuff up to make yourselves feel better. I'm sure there are. but I bet if you ask them would you rather play in this situation or for the Pirates, the answer would be different. All players have some preferences. Remember Curt Schilling would never play for JR due to his perceived role in the 93-94 strike. All I'm saying is that I'm sure there are players who wouldn't play for Ozzie but I'm also sure that there are others who love to play for a manager who tells them straight up what the situation is and communicates with them. I think this Oney situation could change that some however as players may be less open with Ozzie.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 11:35 AM) Players don't talk to each other? And I guess I'll take your word on how close players are in baseball seeing that you have years of experience playing in MLB. They talk but unless their close the money will over ride any gossip. And yes I've spend a good amount of time in MLB, NFL and NBA locker rooms.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 11:35 AM) Morning cocktails? It's almost afternoon. (I'm also home with my kids who are still out of school) Besdies a shot of ouzo is good anytime when when gyros is served.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 11:34 AM) That fact that Ozzie is in the media and has been around for 7 years makes thsi poll skewed. Adam Dunn had never met or spoken to Ozzie Guillen before he signed withteh White Sox. How could he then say if he wanted to plpay with them or not. Baseball is not the tight knit community that peopel think it is. The teams are. The players are only tight with friends from previous teams and otherplayers their agents represent.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 10:43 AM) I want a Gyro, fries with extra cucumber sauce. X2 with ouzo and a Coke

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 05:34 PM) Do you think that having a closer blowing games because of personal issues is a distraction as well? And maybe is the sort that angers potential FA's and trade options? Players understand the problems of distractions. They wouldn't hold it against a team. Even if they did Jenks had 3 loses last year. An FA who looked it up, not that any of them care about individual player stats they usually want to know how good the team is, they would see he lost 3 games. that's better than many other closers in the game.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 03:59 PM) Well, yeah, I don't doubt that. KHP said or else. As if ultimately he would fire Ozzie. I don't think that ever happens. i agree he wouldn't fire Ozzie. He will let KW do what he thinks is right. JR is loyal to his employees and let's them do their job. Like when Phil Jackson had his power play and wanted both GM and coach positions. JR told him Krause had the GM postion so Jackson left. He went to LA divorced his wife and married the owners daughter so he could get the GM fired and took over both positions.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 03:54 PM) 2005. The end. I can't think of another manager in any sport ever living off of one year like Ozzie has and will likely continue to. I know we've been over this but Ozzie has a good record as a manger with few losing seasons. Many maagers have been kept around with worse records. I now you don't like him because he doesn't do "sabermetrics" much but his teams succeed much more than they fail. As for an example just look in Chicago. Lovie Smith has been kept around with far less success.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) JR would never do this. Jerry Krause would still be GM of the Bulls if it were up to him. i think this is exactly something JR would do. He wouldn't fire Ozzie (as per your analogy) but he would sit him down and tell him how to handle the problems arising from his team.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 03:41 PM) I'm sorry, but Jenks criticized how he was handled professionally. Oney responded by airing out a bunch of details about Jenks' personal life. Those are two completely different responses in terms of degree. If Oney wanted to say Jenks didn't get it done on the field, fine. But the White Sox are supposed to be a respectful organization operated by professionals. This is not the kind of response such a respectful organization of any kind makes. And Balta, you can say they didn't formally make this response all you want, but the fact is Oney has the relationships he does and information that he does because he is granted certain privileges by the White Sox, and it is their responsibility to make sure he isn't divulging information like this to the public. This is an excellent post and description. What Oney needs to realize that what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse, especially for the non-players. I've been involved with many professional and collegiate clubhouses and you need to know where the boundary is. The personal stuff cannot be discussed with other people. It's a violation of trust (as well as law in some cases). No team will go anywhere without the respect and trust of the players and coaches involved.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 12:08 PM) All closers were non-closers at some point, and more often than not, they make the transition at the major league level. On a pretty frequent basis, they find success early as well. Thornton has had some experience closing, and I think he deserves a shot, aside from the fact that I think the closer is a stupid pigeon-holed role. all of this is true, if your building a team. However we know two things in reference to your post: 1) Ozzie is going to use a "closer" role regardless of what we feel. 2) With the additions in the off season the Sox want to win this year and with some of the pitcher's contracts may have a small window to win. Are you comfortable enough with this bullpen to believe they can do the job? I would prefer someone with more experience with the rest of the team the sox have. The current bullpen may come through, and as a sox fan I hope they do, however I think they are taking a big risk in relying on a relatively inexperienced bullpen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 11:41 AM) I'm still on the other side on this one, and you and I are obviously going to disagree. But in the sense of being another player in that locker room...let's say I'm Matt Thornton or JJ Putz. Bobby Jenks has been doing things in his personal life that have affected his performance on the field. He's blowing games that I think I could finish. I'm not getting my shot to close because Ozzie sticks with him. I keep my mouth shut despite the fact that Bobby's personal issues are boiling over on to the field and we're losing games because of it. My career is being hurt because of the number of chances that Ozzie is giving Jenks. And then Jenks comes out and attacks Ozzie's use of the bullpen? I'd want to be the one ripping him publicly. You can do the same game with any of the other players...every one of them is keeping his mouth shut about Bobby's issues...they're losing games because of it...and Bobby has the audacity to complain about how he was being used and demand even more of a free ride? You guys can look at it and say that this would build a wall up between Ozzie and his players, I see the opposite. If I were on that team, I'd respect him a lot more if I know that there's only so far that he can be pushed. The ideal situation is that it all stays in house. The players complain to Ozzie about the lack of playing time or whatever. However, we know it sometimes goes public. I wouldn't have a problem with it if the public comments were strctly playing or game related. This is still somewhat professional. However, as soon as it goes to personal issuesit crosses the line. This stuff should never be discussed. This situation is worse because it looks like Ozzie told his whole family about personal issues with one of his players or employees. Oney may have heard about it from someone else but on the surface it looks like Ozzie told his family. If Jenks wanted to, he has a strong case for a law suit against Ozzie and the team. Players will think twice before they talk to Ozzie and may go directly to KW which means Ozzie will lose some respect and control with the team.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 11:24 AM) I don't think I've ever seen a post from you in which I've disagreed more sternly with than this one. It is absolutely ridiculous and Oney needs to keep his mouth shut. This reflects very poorly on Ozzie and it is to the point that Ozzie needs to keep his mouth shut when he talks about baseball with his family because they have loose lips. I know the organization didn't say these things, but if I'm a player and I see this happen, I think twice about coming to Ozzie with something. I should point out, Jenks problems are far more severe than the typical situation and the Sox stuck by his side through some bad moments. Jenks isn't all that different from Josh Hamilton and people seem to forget that. While Hamilton was into much harder drugs, Bobby Jenks minor league time with the Angels and his childhood are well documented and the Sox did a lot for him and I'm sure they don't like hearing what they did. At the same time, Oney can't go out and run his mouth and someone needs to shut him up. I have no doubt what Oney said is 100% true though, but still, shut your mouth. After all the "he said she said" worthless name calling is done, this will be the issue that will effect the Sox during the season. Ozzie needs to be able to communicate with his players as he has always done. This issue may inhibit communication and could really hurt the Sox.