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QUOTE (gatnom @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 12:14 AM) So experienced closers don't blow games? Nobody told Mariano Rivera because he managed to blow five saves last year. No of course not. Let's take it to the extreme? However, good experienced closers will lose fewer games. The Sox currently have no one on the roster with experience closing more than just a few games. There are exceptions like when Jenks did well in 2005 but he at least was closing the whole year in the minors so he was used to the situation. Hopefully the Sox will find another one this year.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 03:31 AM) But honestly, this stuff happens to real people all the time. People start drinking again all the time. People have marital troubles all the time. Far worse things happen to real people all the time. He is a professional and he should have been able to continue to perform as such. I understand he is a human being first, and a pitcher for the White Sox pitcher comes somewhere down the line after husband and father, etc., but come on. Life happens and you deal with it. Jenks is immature and silly for taking some parting shots and Oney and the Guillen family are wildly arrogant and naive to think this isn't going to catch up with them sooner rather than later. In an ideal world this is true. But performing at a professional athlete level with total focus and concentration is tough enough. When you add the kind of troubles he is talking about , it becomes near impossible. Maintaining that level of focus is the hardest part of baseball. It's a mental grind more than physical. Things like this are often the reason why talented players either don't reach their potential or are inconsistent at times.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 23, 2010 -> 09:49 PM) Closers are a dime a dozen. If you participate in fantasy baseball, as I know you do, you already know this. thank you Bill James. I have a feeling the Sox are going to test your statement. We'll see how many games the Sox lose this year with no experienced closer and a lead in the ninth.

Just found out I'm related to Jayson (I will refer to him as Jayson now). He is from my father's hometown and is my father's cousin adopted son. I think this is a close enough relation to ask for a loan. Maybe I could become his posse.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 28, 2010 -> 08:22 AM) I think Sale probably will...but you're right on Pena being a possible 7th starter option. I still don't think The Sox will need a fill in for Peavy for very long if at all. If they do need one I think the Sale or Pena options will work as it will be a short time.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 26, 2010 -> 03:41 PM) Cool, thanks! I know my A&P but I have no idea about kinesiology! Either way, it wasn't gonna be fixed by a 15 day DL stint, am I right? Probably not. If the tendon was close enough to tearing, the rest and meds would make it feel better but not allow the tendon to heal. That type of healing would take 6-9 weeks.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 23, 2010 -> 05:41 PM) I never liked him. I wish the search function worked so I could find threads from '06 of me mocking Cubs fans that talked him up because of his hit total. I had to accept him, obviously, because he was a member of the Sox. But watching him EVERY day took my hate to rarefied levels. I had to actually pimp him for sporting a .345 OBP at one point during the season. And if you take away all those HBPs, it was probably .330 or lower. I just can't get over the fact that the best-case scenario for a starting LF is a single. I just can't. Singles are sexy!!!

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 24, 2010 -> 12:35 PM) I could be wrong, but I don't think his shoulder tightness had anything to do with the tendon tear, and even if what he was feeling was his tendon weakening, the only thing that would have fixed it was surgery or a LONG layoff. Ligament and muscle damage work very differently. This season was lost no matter what, unless he adjusted his mechanics to reduce the stress on his decelerators. Even that isn't a sure thing, as lat tendon avulsions are completely unprecedented in pitchers. Deceleration involves the external rotators such as the rotator cuff and posterior deltoid. The lat, which was torn is an accelerator which is why it is such a uinque injury for a pitcher. Most injuries in a pitchers should involve the decelerators or the stabilizers.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 23, 2010 -> 09:15 PM) That's a lame excuse. A good farm is as much about depth as it is star power. The only reason for the farm existence is too help the MLB club. We currently have good young players at 3B, SS, 2B with established veterans at CF and 1B. The starting pitching is complete with talented veterans and 1 young promising rookie (Sale). The bullpen has two established veterans (Thronton, Crain), a good young righty (Santos) and maybe Sale. The only positions not adequately filled for a few years are corner outfield due to injury history (Quentin) and average to below average performance (Pierre) and catcher for age (AJ) along with a bullpen arm or two. I think the farm or international signings has produced well and has a few years to produce players for either trade or MLB production. Personally, I love watching the minors as I worked there for a few years. However, I like KW philosophy of prospects are suspects until they are proven in the MLB so if you can get proven MLB players you need, you are going to be right more than wrong because most prospects will fail.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 10:39 PM) I believe this managerial impact is taken into account in Bill James Saber model. In the Bill James Handbook there is a whole section on managers where it breaks down number of times a manger calls for a sacrifice, hit and run, steal, pitching change, etc and then statistically shows his success rate. Most importantly, there is a figure called Manager Wins, which is like WAR for manager, or how many wins is the manager worth given his decision making, strategy, and tactics. I do think that's a very telling figure. I agree with the premise of Bill James' model. I still have a problem with the WAR concept. While it basically attempts to establish an "average" to use as a replacement, it discounts the availability or opportunity of this replacement player. In managers it's even more difficult. Many managers make decisions based on situations and don't always follow the same pattern for strategy. This is problematic enough without looking at the abstract concept of the managers impat on the motivation, mood or focus of a player on a day to day basis. I like what Bill James and sabermetrics try to do as a whole, I was a subscriber to his early newsletters in the 80's. However, as I've said before from a statisticians point of views he basically decides what he thinks is important and creates a formula in an attempt to quantify it. It has many hole in it and while it is helpful on making decisions people carry way too far. Being heavily involved in reviewing research articles for peer reviewed publications, sometimes you can microanalyze the numbers, make them say what you want them to say and lose sight of the big picture.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 07:26 PM) I hate the idea of evaluating the value of a manager by player statistics. It should be a much more granular study involving specific managerial decisions (pitching changes, walking with an open base, sac bunts, etc.) and how those decisions impacted the outcome of each game. the problem with thisis that you negate any impact of actually coaching a player or player motivation. Coaches can teach and help improve player performance. This was his purpose in saying he looked at a players performance from the current team and other teams for which he played. However, I do agree that should be some input from specific moves in a game and different lineups etc. I think these things are important but in a sport like baseball it's more the mental approach and comfort level where the manager has more of an impact. More often than not the in game strategies are a crapshoot where no one philosophy works all of the time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2010 -> 01:55 PM) Magglio would be my first, going by how big he got, the strange injuries, and Ozzie's statments when he left. Magglio is another definite one. As a matter of fact they both started in the minors and brought it to the Sox.

There is no research to show to icing helps to prevent injuries. Ther have been a few studies on it and all show no significant difference even using a p.01. In fact one show an increase of injury although again it wasn't statistically significant.

QUOTE (buhbuhburrrrlz @ Dec 18, 2010 -> 05:29 PM) I'm confused how Don Cooper predicted arm problems with Strasburg, but didn't with Peavy. Especially with Peavy's violent delivery. It almost seems like he has to learn to pitch a completely different way after he comes back. Strasburg has a motion which some people believe is good others don't. Very similiar to Mark Prior's. They both had coaches who follow the Tom House theory of pitching. The training goes with the "towel drill" for extension to the plate we are familiar with here. Peavy really doesn't have too bad of a motion. He runs into trouble because he likes to change arm slots during a game to fool hitters. Cooper does not like this as he tried to get contreras and Peavy to stop it or at least do it less.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 18, 2010 -> 08:20 AM) Thanks for the medical view. I know that's your background. So, would you say we could look for less MPH, movement on his pitches early on, as the muscle regains strength? Also, how likely is the muscle to become "unattached" again? Isn't that the unknown, as pitchers haven't had this type of injury before? My guess would be the decreased velocity early on while he builds strength. However, that is purely a guess as I've rehabbed other types of throwers with this injury but never a pitcher. The repair will be stronger then the original attachment so it is less likely he he have the detachment again. Inflammation and irritation problrms would be the same as before the injury.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 18, 2010 -> 06:56 AM) I'm cautiously optimistic. Esp. as the doctors say Jake can go "full-bore" in Feb. I'd be more concerned if the injury was to his shoulder or arm. There's less stress and torque on the lat muscle for Peavy pitching. Yet the fact that no pitcher has had this injury before raises alarm bells. And questions about if he can come back and for how long. That doesn't even take into account a possible injury to his elbow or arm if he overcompensates for the lat injury. Oh well, it's the season of hope, right. There is a lot of stress on the lat during throwing. It is the primary internal rotator of the shoulder. so when the arm is coming forward it is provding most of the power. That being said it isn't a stabilizer of the joint which is why it isn't under the same type of stress as the rotator cuff which needs to hold the joint together and slow the arm down during the follow through. The challenge for the rest of the rehab will be to strengthen the muscle that was dormant for months. That takes time but is just a prcess that will happen but you just aren't sure of the time frame with regards to getting the "stuff" back on the pitches. I'm confident it will happen in time for the season or at least early in the season but that will be the only limiting factor.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 10:12 PM) I really doubt Rowand was on PEDs. Although he did look kinda ripped. Especially for a guy of his size. He was when he was with the Sox. I'm not sure if he is now because I haven't seen him lately.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 09:59 PM) Really dude? Yes

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 07:49 PM) Besides greg? Rowand's slash line the last three years: .257/.318/.405/.723. Declining defense across the board. 2004/2005 was a long time ago. Nobody misses Rowand outside of nostalgia sentiment. the PED dealers in Chicago missed him. In SF he went back to his friends in Las Vegas.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 01:43 PM) ...see Jake Peavy or Chris Sale...yikes. Sale doesn't actually drop down very far. He has a shortened wind up due to the angle he holds his elbow during the early wind up. Because of this he can't get his hand up over his head in time so he throws from a lower arm slot. however he compensates some by leaning to the side with his back so his actual arm angle isn't as bad as you think. It's an odd motion but not as bad as some are making it out to be. Peavy on the other hand needs to stay with his normal motion and not drop down so far when he tries to trick hitters.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 09:47 AM) IMO, the ENTIRE problem is psychological, which explains why every year the Twins destroy us and make it into the playoffs they get destroyed by any team they play, even if it's NOT the Yankees. Their team pitching and hitting were marginally better than ours last year, but they somehow won just about every game they played against us in grand blowout fashion. Statistically, being that they are marginally better in every way, that should result in them being 1 or 2 games better in head to head play...but it never turns out that way, because every time the Sox play them (no matter how good the Sox are), it's like Superman playing a solid block of Kryptonite for who knows what reason. Though if I had to venture a guess, the reason is that Hawk (and many others, including Ozzie Guillen in the Sox organization) gush over s***ty players like Carlos Gomez and how great he is -- when he sucks in every way possible -- not to mention build up the Twins as an invincible enemy. They need to take a queue from the 1980 US Olympic Hockey Coach, Herb Brooks with the Twins. Rather than coming in and building the Russians up as an invincible team and telling them that in comparison they suck, he chipped away at the Russians, making fun of them in every way he could think of, belittling them just enough every day that their aura of invincibility was dimmed in the eyes of the players. In contrast, if you ask Hawk, Ozzie, or anyone else in the Sox organization, the Twins are better than the Sox -- in every way, every single year -- so there is no point in trying. This entire conversation infuriates me, and serves as a lesson in exactly how you DO NOT COACH your players into thinking their opponents are better than they are. The other version could be that the Twins believe they have an advantage over the Sox because they have beaten the Sox and they have the psychological advantage not because we play down but because they play up. The psychological advantage or disadvantage is a two way street, it doesn't always have to be that the Sox have the problem or the manager or GM screwed it up. The other team is a factor as well.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 17, 2010 -> 06:54 AM) Thank you both for the great insight. That was exactly the kind of information which I was seeking. I did see somewhere that he is trying to acquire a good splitter. That's a much less stressful pitch than the slider, and very effective, isn't it? the split finger is actually more stressful on the arm in general if both pitches are thrown properly. To throw the split you need to have more wrist action than a normal pitch. you need to flex the wrist quickly to get the extra spin which causes it to drop. All other pitches should be thrown with a stiff wrist (in different positions for different pitches) and use more finger action. The slider becomes more stressful when the pitcher drops down or straighten the elbow to get more "slide" across the plate instead of downward motion.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 06:10 PM) Nobody comes to mind. But if Boston thinks they can use Jenks as an 8th inning guy, they might be thinking the wrong way. If he knows that's his role, he'll be fine. It's when you're prepared and used to closing throughout a season and when you know there is nothing on the line that you lose focus. Inclose games when he knows it's his job to get to the closer, he'll keep his focus and be fine.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 04:39 PM) What kind of dumbass decides he doesn't want an extra $2M when he'd be playing in the same city and for a contender? I guy who has made plenty of money and just wants to play for a certain team. I would go with the better chance of winning but everyone has different priorities.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 16, 2010 -> 02:06 PM) Especially with the Green Monster in LF. This is still a good spot for him though, he has a great shot of winning a title. I believe the last time an Ex- White Sox closer went there, they did win the World Series for the first time in 80 some years. Good Luck Bobby (except against us)!!!!