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QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 11:32 AM) Since turning 30 and prior to being acquired by the White Sox, Kotsay had hit .263 in 1184 at bats from 2006 to mid-2009. His White Sox batting average is .242, bringing his post-30 batting average to an overall .260 clip. Since turning 30, AJP is hitting .277. I'm not really sure at this point, they are the same basic player. They used to resemble one another more. Offensively. You can tolerate these numbers if they have value defensively, especially at catcher. AJP while he cannot throw runners out is outstanding a calling games, making pitchers comfortable and blocking pitches.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 11:27 AM) I don't think it's wrong to defend a WS hero when somebody is mocking him for what? Having a bad back. It's not his fault he has a bad back. What's wrong with sticking up for a hero? The World Series is uh, a big deal. Not to be picky but it was his fault he had a back injury. He wasn't injured in a car collision or some other "accident." He had back problems and did nothing about it until he ruptured a disc. People can prevent the majority of back injuries, they just usually do nothing about it until it's too late. Ok, medical professional stepping off his high horse. Continue with discussion.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 15, 2010 -> 08:32 AM) Ugh, you keep comparing 05 Sox players to the best players in Cub history, when they aren't even close to the same situation. Ron Santo is a borderline HOF player who spent his whole 15 year career on the North Side, but stopped playing 36 years ago. Joe Crede would never be close to sniffing a HOF vote, but is a player still trying to play in the majors, so he is being discussed in context to the present day. No one here ever says Crede did nothing to help us win the 05 title, I wish he never played here. Sox fans will always remember him for his contributions to a WS title and 9 solid seasons here, especially even more as time passes. But they will also remember that a back injury kept him from reaching his full potential unfortunately. Blocking out his last year? Or as a Sox fan do you not want to admit it?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 12:33 PM) I agree with you 100%. Good ballplayer, piece of crap as a human being. No doubt he would do it "to get an edge."

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 14, 2010 -> 09:55 AM) The Pirates have lost eight games in a row. If we don't sweep, it's a disappointment. It's just the fact of that streak that guarantees that the sox will break it. The Sox always do it. Remeber the year Baltimore started out the season with a 20 some game losing streak?

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 12:00 PM) I don't think that matters to a lot of people. There's a mentality that if you weren't here in 2005, you have nothing to offer this organization in the future.. I think it's more that people are comfortable with established MLB veterans as opposed to the unknown of MiLB players. Some of this is due to the lack of production from the players coming up from our system. It makes people gun shy. I, personally, believe you need 1-2 people from your system each year to come up a learn in the MLB.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jun 13, 2010 -> 01:06 AM) In some ways, yes, and in others, no. Andruw Jones: No. He was good when he was healthy. Now he's not, so now he's not good anymore. But he wasn't expected to remain healthy. No anomaly. Alex Rios & PK: No. They are very talented players who have shown what they can do in the past. They won't continue to be as amazing as they have been, but they are perfectly capable of having very productive years. No anomaly. Peavy, Mark, Gavin: Yes, anomalies. They're better than this. Linebrink: No, because he can be serviceable if not outright dominating in the first half. It'll be an anomaly if he is somewhat respectable in the 2nd. Teahen and Pierre: No because they suck. Freddy: No because he's got balls and has shown he can pitch off a much depleted fastball before. Sergio: Yes, very much so, and he'll have to come down at some point. Jenks: Yes, because he's (if healthy) much better than he has been up to this point. Thornton, Putz, Pena: No, all doing just about what was expected. AJ, Beckham, Quentin: Yes, they're all better than the way they've played. I'm confident in AJ and Gordon reversing this, and I believe they currently are, but CQ may need another change of scenery. Williams, Kotsay, Vizquel, Nix, Castro, etc.: No, because this is about what was expected from them. In short, if we get a couple pieces, and if our good players who started the season by sucking can start playing better baseball, then we are a much, much better team. I would believe, however, that we'd be dead and buried if we played in the AL East however. But we don't, so good for us, because with a nice run we can catch those Twins. Not just that. We have lots of talented players on our roster. We're not making runs off players like Carlos Silva having improbably good seasons. We've got some really good players who aren't performing and a couple bad ones who also aren't performing. We need a bat or two and some rebounds. Lateral moves??? Who said anything about a lateral move? A lateral move, IMO, would be like trading a good setup man in Santos for a good RF in Cody Ross, for example. Yes, we address one area, but we deplete another. We don't need to make lateral moves when we can package a couple minor leaguers who are NOT contributing at all and deal them off for someone who is a veteran and currently producing. Please tell me how trading AJ for some MiLB player who best case scenario probably has to fight for a bench/relief spot on the 2011 ballclub hurts our future. Please tell me how you think MLB pitchers are going to bow down to Tyroid and not eat him alive. Please tell me how holding on to a capable major league player hurts our future. Please tell me how contending in general hurts our future. Do you really think Tyler Flowers is a good enough baseball player to warrant a free reign at the MLB level? Do you really think Tyler Flowers is so good that we should abandon any thoughts of trying to salvage the season just so this wunderkind can play? I don't. Not at all. Agreed. The problem with the Sox isn't that they have bad players. It's that they have good players who are really underperforming. It's still an extreme longshot that they can get back and win the division. However, this team is talented enough with a good core for next year if they fall short. Adding a couple of pieces would go a long way towards that. Trading AJ would be a good start since he is one of the underperformers and won't be back next year anyway. How much worse could Flowers hit? We might find out.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:33 PM) You have to make Hahn GM if you're going to keep Ozzie, it's the only choice. Nobody else would deal with taking the job if they had to inherit a hot tempered, iffy (at best) strategical manager like him. Hahn has turned down some GM interviews recently. Maybe he saw it coming.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 11, 2010 -> 08:05 AM) While I wouldn't be sad to see both quit/fired, if KW goes and Ozzie stays, that would be worst case scenario. It baffles me that certain people can't see how out of control Guillen and his family have become. But hey, winning a World Series ring gives you immunity I guess. Yes, it does give you more latitude. JR lived with winning 3 playoff titles in 20 years. While this situation is a soap opera, it has been comparatively very successful. I'm sure he will do all he can to try to keep it together. However, the Sox have had the same GM and manager for a long period of time compared to most teams so it will come to an end in the not too distant future.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 10, 2010 -> 08:00 PM) Beckham with a double 2 games in a row. Nice to see. I also noticed that everyone in the lineup is hitting over .200. I don't think that's happened in a while!

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 9, 2010 -> 05:51 PM) JAVY VAZQUEZ and Kaz Tadano Ouch, that's below the belt.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 02:18 PM) The red sox have a deep system because they spend money on the draft. When we figure that out, we will replenish our system and become a force again. Our division is figuring this out. Maybe at some point someone in our organization will as well. We all know the Sox operate on a given budget and this won't change. The dilemma is that if you add money to the draft budget you need to take it fom elsewhere. Do you take 6 million off the MLB salary budget? Personally I would but then you will hear the complaints about not spending money on the MLB team.

QUOTE (scenario @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 01:16 PM) Not sure why we had to take a 1B with a big swing, questionable contact skills, and below average speed in the 5th round. Guys like that are a dime a dozen. Baseball America thought he'd go somewhere between rounds 7-10. I do like guys with power who walk as much as they K though.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 01:10 PM) I didn't think that post required green. I know. It wasn't necessarily directed at you, as we usually agree on the topic. More just a point thrown out there to some of the others.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 8, 2010 -> 12:40 PM) But, but they're billionaires. They're in bankruptcy because they choose to be. they're also businessmen for whom the baseball team is not their only focus. They didn't buy the baseball team to blow all thier money on and go broke. They're in bankruptcy because if the teams don't generate large profits and if you don't inject outside money in, they are bankrupt divisions. Just because they have the money it doesn't mean they should put it all into a sports team which won't generate the revenue that one of their others businesses will. By the way, this only applies to a team that is primarily owned by one individual.

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Jun 6, 2010 -> 09:07 PM) My point is the organization needs talent, not projects. But isn't the definition of a project the "high risk-high reward" player for which many are asking? If you don't want projects, you want the safe pick.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jun 5, 2010 -> 02:39 AM) I was really happy to see that Danks went 2-5 but then i saw he had two k's and i stopped caring. He's very close to falling off the map completely. Also, Dayan is turning into a really, good hitter. One bad year (it's not even a full year yet.) at a new level is no reason to totally write someone off. that being said a high strikeout rate is a reason for concern at any level of the minors. It doesn't usually bode well for his future production.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 4, 2010 -> 11:57 AM) And the way we've become obsessed with taking on reclamation projects and putting faith in guys who haven't done s*** for years. It worked in 2005. But that was an outlier. That's no way to build towards a sustained run of success. It'd be nice to go into a season not praying for bounce back or career years from half the roster. when you put as much money into the pitching staff as the Sox did, they had to make the lineup this way. The bottom line is the Sox thought the starting pitching would carry the team and the undermanned lineup would score enough runs to win. We all knew the lineup wasn't going to very good thus I'm not really to disappointed in them. The starting is the first last and biggest disappointment and the cause of this team's poor performance.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 1, 2010 -> 08:22 AM) I hope Nix gets legit playing time over the next 1.5 weeks. He has received too inconsistent playing time this year to make any sound judgments on his performance. I really think if he gets starter's at-bats, he would post these type of numbers over a full year: .260, 25 HR, 75 RBI with good SB numbers. With alot of K's and mediocre to poor defense.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 28, 2010 -> 09:07 PM) I remember watching Ryan do all of those drills in Old Comiskey Park. He seemed to turn out all right. Yeah but that's like saying everyone is physically capable of doing what Jordan did. Studies have shown that the way Nolan Ryan threw is one of the worst way to throw. The "pull string" curve ball alone should have ripped his elbow apart. Ryan was a physical anomaly with terrible mechanics. It worked for him but I wouldn't teach it to anyone. Besides, he was barely a .500 pitcher for his career. He had great stats but usually pitched just well enough to lose.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 30, 2010 -> 11:37 AM) He said he doesn't want to stay where he isn't wanted, and he wouldn't block a trade. I never remember him saying he didn't want to be here. There is a big difference there. This is what I've heard. It's not that he doesn't want to be here but knows the Sox won't re-sign him.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 28, 2010 -> 09:48 AM) He needs to play long toss, I've totally bought into the Rangers way of pitching. Much more long toss from greater distances. Be careful with that. The Rangers have a reputation of beating up their pitchers pretty badly. Also, with Nolan Ryan taking be ready for the Tom House/ Larry Rothschild theory of long toss, towel drills and throwing a football to improve your pitching, ie. Mark Prior.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 26, 2010 -> 07:40 PM) Shingo Takatsu was 8 for 9 in save opps. with lower ERA than Jenks when he was replaced and eventually released. Its not micro managing. You consider yourself lucky he hasn't cost you more games and replace him in this critical role. Its a pre-emptive move. Why wait for the coming disaster if you have a chance to avoid it? Its not like you are firing him. He gets a different role and instead of just being annointed closer based on what he did 2 or 3 years ago he has to earn it again. The White Sox are getting to the point they cannot lose games they are supposed to win. You can't just say the White Sox won today, so everyone did fine. Tomorrow is a different day. Jenks has had too many days when he's been absolutely terrible to be considered a top closer right now. The White Sox have tons of options in their bullpen. Its time to make a change. Bobby will have a new role. If he shows he's up for a return to the closer's role eventually great, but right now, he has to give up the 9th. I do agree a win is a win. I don't think Jenks' implosion will have any carry over, just like I thought Jose Paniagua's appearance in 2003 in a White Sox win, wasn't the thing that cost the White Sox a playoff spot like some believe. I don't disagree with the concept however Shingo didn't have a track record multiple good years in the majors. Bobby does. I know he hasn't pitched very well. However, I don't think he has lost his stuff and until he repeatedly loses games I'm going to give him the chance to correct himself. I'm not going to take him out of the closers role until he loses games not just gives up runs.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 26, 2010 -> 05:08 PM) Give Santos the shot. Keep Thornton as the 8th inning guy. I would be afraid of injuring his arm with the lack of times he's had back to back work and other factors that go along with closing. However I would spend the season conditioning him and give him a chance when he's ready.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 26, 2010 -> 05:20 PM) Thornton's entered in 12 high leverage situations this year and gave the opponent the lead 3 times. Jenks has entered 9 high leverage situations this year and gave the opponent the lead 3 times. When Jenks enters a game he typically has a much higher margin for error than Thornton whether it be a 3 run lead or the fact that he's starting the inning and doesn't have to deal with inherited runners. You can't just go based off how many games a reliever has "blown" because the 2 roles are not created equal. Matt Thornton actually leads our relievers in WPA meaning over the course of the season he has added to our win probability more than any other reliever, almost always your leader will be your closer just because there's so much more WPA+ to be gained by finishing the game than getting a few outs in the 7th and the high volume of high leverage situations a top of the line set-up man is required to pitch. Oddly enough though Thornton is at 0.77 (12th in the AL) and Jenks is at -0.47. Thornton actually finished 5th amongst all AL relievers (closers included) last year which just speaks to his incredible success rate in high leverage situations. I disagree. When it really comes down to it the only thing that matters is winning. Granted if Bobby keeps up his performances the odds are that he will lose more games. I couldn't care less about the stats he puts up as long as they win. I know if had this discussion about starting pitchers as well but all I care about is the win. It's like managing people. Do you give your group a goal and then micromanage them and check on the progress hourly or do you let them do what they need to do to accomplish the goal. I for one don't care how they do it as long as the job gets done. Again, if he starts losing the games the situation changes.