ptatc

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 02:52 PM) The HGH is what everyone seems to be saying has the biggest effect on vision, per the anecdotes. I would probably say that is possible but I don't think that is part of Canseco's discussin. From what I 've read he took only synthetic anabolic steriods. The poster earlier also referenced that "steroids help improve vision" and that is what I based my comments upon.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 05:40 PM) I agree that Vizquel is the better IF defender and have said as much. My point is that there's not an enormous difference in ability between the two especially when you factor in Lillibridge's ability to play CF and pinch run. The difference between the two is definitely not worth $975K when you can't afford to give Matsui $6.5M or Johnson $5.75M. Kenny has made a series of these moves this offseason, overpaying for veteran bench players who aren't a whole lot better than what we could have gotten at the minimum, and by doing that he has priced himself out of the bidding for players he actually needed. A Kroeger/various AAAA players battle for 4th OF/1B could have saved another $1.1M that went to Kotsay; Armstrong/various AAAA player battle for backup C could have saved another $600K that went to Castro, etc. Add this stuff up, then bring in a guy like Winn instead of Pierre or trade for someone like Gardner, and now we've got enough to pay Matsui. Kenny blew it this year. Your point only makes sense if you don't use your bench very much and the very good player plays all of the time. Players need rest. If the very good player plays all of the time and is tired (physically or mentally) theneven if you make the playoffs he will be useless in the playoffs. Ozzie believes (and I happen to agree) that players need regular rest in order to stay sharp and be healthy for the whole season and into the playoffs. In your scenario, the very good player may get tired especially mentally and his performance would decrease and ther may be better performance by the backup. You probalbly do not agree with this that the better backups on the limited budget make the team better. However it is apparent that Ozzie and KW do and this is why they are building the tram in this manner. The injury discussion also plays a part but since that point was already made and you disagreed with it I thoughI would bring this point up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 01:51 PM) How exactly can you say with 100% confidence that abusing these drugs at the levels that they're used doesn't actually increase the eye's visual acuity? There's never been a legit study on this because you can't load people up with steroids and HGH to do a normal double-blind study. From the studies done with lower doses for medical purposes there has never been any evidence of improving vision. The effects of anabolic steriods revolve around muscle tissue. Nothing has been found that would lead anyone to conclude that they effect the neural tissue to any great extent. Also from working in the NFL and dealing with athletes who were on steroids I've never seen improved vision. If I went on experience I would say long term exposure would decrease vision with the number of these athletes who seem to get glasses earlier. That is just an observation but I can say with a pretty good amount of certainty from the available evidence and experience that anabolic steroids do not improve vision. HGH is another story. The studies done with HGH have been done on children under the age of 18 who had growth abnormalities. vision could be effected with normal growth. This is one thing that scares the medical profession about HGH. While it natural occurs in the body it effects more than just muscle tissue so the long term effects on normal adults could be truly terrifying.

QUOTE (tonyho7476 @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 11:43 AM) Canseco said in his book how well the roids helped him see the ball. it really doesn't directly improve vision. What it will do is increase your focus which will indirectly help you "see the ball better."

QUOTE (JuiceCruz16 @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 11:35 AM) Thank You!!! I totally agree! They cheated in the exact same way, Their illegal performance enhanceing drug of choice just did not work as well during their time. They damn sure used and abused them all they could though. Take all the cheats out and you lose almost all your hall of famers from the 70's on. Not just the "roiders". You can't keep any of them out because there was no rules against them. You can disagree on how much each drug helped their performance. However, neither were against the rules of baseball until 2003. so the ones caught after that you can say they broke rules. Prior to that it is just the opinion of the voter as to whether or not to vote them into the HOF.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 10:27 AM) In what world has baseball rid baseball or roids? HGH still isnt tested. Their test show to steroids because they dont test fro everything. Oh, and players are still getting suspended for roids. Beat me to the reply. But to be fair no sports tests for HGH. This is why you still see the NFL players getting bigger. No union is currently agreeing to have blood tests. The only sport that does is the International Organizing bodies. Why do you think so few major leaguers didn't participate in the World Baseball Classic? Players are still getting suspended for steriods because they are getting caught. Players can cycle on and off to attempt to aviod getting caught and a few may succeed but it will greatly reduce the effect they have on the body so it still partially helps the problem.

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Jan 12, 2010 -> 10:24 AM) WOW! Bud is in some serious denial: Bud Selig: Steroid Use 'Virtually Nonexistent' Steriod use is virtually non-existent. With the current testing procedures anabolic steriods will be detected. What he isn't saying is that with the current testing procedures they cannot detect HGH or human growth hormone. This is what current players are taking. It is more difficult to obtain and is much more expensive so fewer players are taking it. This will be the case until someone comes up with a new synthetic steriod such as in the BALCO case.

You can tell the attitude of this board by the fact that the Top Ten Best Sox of the Decade gets 39 replies and died fairly quickly while this one about the worst is already at 107. People love to complain.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 23, 2009 -> 09:06 AM) Has any official research ever been done on our system and all the injuries pitchers experienced around 1999-2003??? Jason Stumm Danny Wright Jon Rauch Jim Parque Rocky Biddle Lorenzo Barcelo Kelly Wunsch Bobby Howry James Baldwin Mike Sirotka Corwin Malone Kris Honel (he was later) Kip Wells (health problems later) Brandon McCarthy (later) I'm sure I am leaving some names off, just off the top of my head... Was it a run of incredible bad luck, or something that could actually be looked at from a system-wide standpoint, etc.? I'm not familiar with any research on specific White Sox pitchers. Most of the research currently being done onvolves pitch counts, innings pitched and mechanics of the overhead athlete. I'm sure the White Sox have looked at it internally. I've discussed pitch count and mechanics philosophy with members of the White Sox medical staff but not on specific pitchers due to HIPPA regulations.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 23, 2009 -> 08:13 AM) While we're talking about the sox rotation, this could only help improve it. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/artic...sp&c_id=cws It's very interesting to note how players go about their offseasons. From Mark's own words, he seemed to rest his arm during the offseason [not throw, etc, but I'm sure worked out to keep in shape]. And maintained a strength program during the season. Mark has gone through many poor stretches where his location wasn't quite there, and wasn't as sharp. And the results were often horrible, where he'd get knocked around like a little league pitcher. Maybe last season's fade has finally convinced him to change his offseason workouts up, where he can stay stronger during the season. It's not like he's going to throw any harder. But a tired arm has led Mark to struggle with his location. I also remember that Linebrink talked about changing up his offseason routine, that he hardly ever picked up a ball. With his 2nd half fades in recent years, he better be changing things up. I find it interesting that with all the research about training available to these players on how to get in the best shape possible for their respective positions [pitchers, speed and contact guys, power hitters, etc] that more aren't putting this advice into practice. Pro players should be more selective with what training advice they listen to, as all trainers and programs aren't created equal. The problem is that there is no proven program that is better than another. What hes saying sounds good and it's always better to be in shape but there's no guarantee that it will make him a better pitcher. Professionals can't even agree on the best mechanics. There is zero research showing that stronger muscles will be more effective in pitching. The only thing that is mostly agreed upon is that pitchers injure the rotator cuff the most so a stronger more pliable rotator cuff muscles should help to prevent injuries. However, this has ever been proven. Even with my research, we just try to do what makes sense and take as much stress off the arm as possible but it is far from absolute.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 10:42 PM) You were joking, but where would any team be without individual stats? Not as good as how they interact as a team on a good team.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 19, 2009 -> 08:45 PM) Totally disagree. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. They sign two players like that for the same money and are still left with holes to fill. As it stands now, I think they still have a hole. And that's after they've made those other acquisitions. And "fired on the spot"? Come on, man. You want him to tell the press he thinks his team isn't good enough? That's just absurd. Nope the only thing that matters is their individual stats.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Dec 18, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) Nix should have Vizquel's role. I'm beginning to think that Vizquel was a complete waste of money and will be a waste of roster space. If you want somebody to coach Alexei, bring him to Spring Training as an instructor. With this pitching staff, it's more important to have defense in your backups. This team will ive and die by defense and pitching.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 16, 2009 -> 09:09 PM) If not for 2005, would Ozzie still be our manager? Yes. He still has more division titles and winning seasons than any other manager in recent memory. The sox used to go to the playoffs essentially once a decade. Since KW and Ozzie have taken over the team they have been very successful compared to previous administrations.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 17, 2009 -> 07:25 AM) I just want to know why is it everyone who says KW is absolutely not lying when he talks about finances can say he's lying everytime he talks about players? Isn't even remotely possible when he uses the every dime that comes in goes out line, he's not being straight either? There are a couple things about this rotating DH, if it is true, that are troublesome. First, the guys he apparently will use are bench players. Why in the AL would you have a bench player in the line-up everyday? Second, a lot of players struggle DHing. I know Frank Thomas did for a while. There's no guarantee even if it is for a game or two, the players won't have a difficult time adjusting. If the Sox are going to use a rotating DH, they need to acquire another every day player. Not spread it around and have reserves in the line-up all the time. It would be suicide. What is interesting is KW has gone from getting personnel advise from Konerko and Thome and switched over to Ozzie, but I'm pretty sure he's BSing. No way KW would call it an offseason in the middle of December. Because gamesmanship to hide what moves you are working on is different than deceiving people on what money he has. What would KW gain by not spending all of the money at his disposal? Would he purposely not spend money to not field the best team hecan to lose his job? It doesn't make sense to not use all of his resources. Now might JR not give all of the money available to KW? The is possible and probable. JR has responsibilities to other pepople not just the 25 man roster. These include the minor leagues, ballpark employess and the other investors. It just doesn't make sense that KW wouldn't use all of the resources available to him to field the best team he can. You may disagree with how he is doing it but that doesn't mean the resources aren't being expended.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:07 AM) Just wait until the stats guys hear this. The board will flame with how bad of a leadoff hitter he is and how bad of a move this is. Personally, I think it's an ok move. Not great but should help. I just wanted to end the day like it began and bump my earlier thought. It has been an immensely entertaining if not predictable discussion.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:20 AM) Wonder if they aren't thinking if and a big if Jones comes in good shape...Pierre in LF, Rios in CF and Jones in RF and Carlos at DH since he is a health risk. Good call. This could the group of OF's and DH for the rotation KW and Ozzie have been talking about.

QUOTE (chisox2334 @ Dec 15, 2009 -> 10:05 AM) good move and dodgers picking it up.. now we got our leadoff Just wait until the stats guys hear this. The board will flame with how bad of a leadoff hitter he is and how bad of a move this is. Personally, I think it's an ok move. Not great but should help.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 05:26 PM) The deals for Vizquel, Jones, and Putz are not preventing them from making any big moves. If they are unable to make a big move, it isn't because they've signed 3 guys for less than $6 million total. Well which acquisition makes this "really bad"? Rios? I think it's much too early to say that as he's really only had one bad year. And I think talented ballplayers are allowed to have a bad year here and there. Of course, it's a gamble because of his salary but that doesn't make it a "really bad" acquisition...especially when you consider KW gave up no players to do it. He's strengthened the bench and it's mid-December. Not on this board. If you had a good year, next year you will regress to your mean and suck. If you had a bad year there is no way you can play like you did in previous years because you've lost it (even if you're younger than 30) and you suck.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 03:29 PM) Cowley is probably making light of Kenny's absolute failure of an offseason so far. Every other contender is doing big things while Kenny is loading up on complimentary players. The Sox are out of money already and there's still no RF or DH, but don't worry because Jenks, Linebrink, and Konerko are all still here sucking up salary. 1. KW spent his money for next season on Peavy and Rios at the end of last season. I don't know what big money move you were expecting but the expectioins should not have been very high. 2. I see you don't care for the contracts of Jenks, Linebrink and Konerko and think they are weighing down the possibilites of KW making a move. Most GMs seem to agree with you and nobody wants them and their contracts. If KW were to make a trade with any of them, he would need to eat so much of the contract it would n't give enough salary relief to be of any benefit. So again I'm not sure why you would have expected any big off season acquisitions when it was pretty obvious KW did most of his big acquisitions at the end of last year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:11 PM) People keep giving you a hard time, but it's really disappointing how much Rios' contract could be hampering our chances at signing other valuable pieces. I agree with you that Matsui would have been a pefect fit, and 6.5 million isn't a lot. i don't think it's the money. It's more the preference for the West Coast. I would think KW could go 6.5 mil.

QUOTE (jphat007 @ Dec 14, 2009 -> 02:02 PM) Please ignore this post. It has lots of hyperbole and frustration. LOL. Vlads? Thome? Try Mark Kotsay. And the worst Sox offense of all time. Ugh. I really wanted Matsui bad. But hey, we have Alex Rios at 10 mil a year. If he signs there,it's because of his preference for the West Coast. They want him as strictly a DH (maybe they'll bend a little) and he said he wants to play the outfield. But he also has said if not the Yankees he would like the west Coast.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 13, 2009 -> 05:26 AM) KW has made the most trades involving prospects by a pretty good margin since he's been GM. And not a single one of them has become an even above average major leaguer. You're right about the Yankees (although guys like Cano, Chamberlain and Hughes have come through their system). But the Braves have been a prospect factory for over two decades. Just off the top of my head guys like Adam Wainwright, Neftali Feliz, Joey Devine and Elvis Andrus were drafted/signed then traded. That's top flight major league talent. Not to mention guys like Tommie Hanson and Jason Heyward. If I'm a GM and I'm lookin' to trade for prospects, one of the teams I'd target would be the Braves. Not the White Sox. But props to Kenny. He obviously knows when to get rid of these guys. You would just think after a while GM's would catch on. This is because KW understands that prospects, no matter how good they look in the minors are still suspects. You don't know how they'll do. So if he can get a major league player with a proven rack record for them, he will. These don't always work out either (Swisher). But you have a better chance on getting a good return on a player with major league record.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 12, 2009 -> 03:18 AM) Everything I see from reports suggests Carrasco being gone, but it still doesn't make sense to me. Sure Hudson could do the job, but then you are eating up an entire arbitration year of a guy who could easily be the 5th starter of a still stellar rotation in 2011, and losing a rather vital cog of a bullpen because of $2 mill. I actually think a lot of this is due to Matsui, personally. And we won't know his whereabouts until January. My final guess is that Carlos Torres plays the role of Carrasco next year with actual potential to move to middle relief and set up (which Carrasco does not have), Williams is trying to trade him right now for really anything he can get, and that Hudson remains in the minors. it may just be that they don't think he can replicate his numbers from last year. They may not want to lose a guy with an arm like Santos and they will try him in the mop up role with Cooper working with him at the major league level.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 11, 2009 -> 04:19 PM) It's interesting how many guys we have that have something to prove next year. Putz is coming off surgery on his throwing arm. Yikes. But the Sox have medical experts and must know what they are doing. As fans we can only hope for the best but wouldn't we be expecting a lot to see him pitch before June after surgery?? He's another very tall pitcher. Has he had control problems? GO SOX! From my understanding he should be ready to throw by spring training if not sooner.