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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 19, 2009 -> 09:47 PM) He's 25 and has barely two years of service time in the bigs. His cons are well known. There's plenty of time for him to (even if he never becomes good) improve in areas where he can be considered below average. Even if he doesn't improve, he's 10 times better than anything we've trotted out there the last three years. LOL. You say that like it's nothing. Does a CF have to be a combination of prime Willie Mays and Ken Griffey Jr. to impress people around here? The guy is young, athletic, has plus power/speed/defense (many believe Young should've won a GG last year). And most importantly room to grow. I'd gladly live with the K's and low OBP considering all the other things he provides. In the last three years, we've trotted out Brian Anderson, Rob Mackowiak, Darin Erstad, Jerry Owens, Luis Terrero, Nick Swisher, and a 7-8 years past his prime Griffey Jr. to CF. And we've got people harpin' on Young's K rates in a futile attempt to make the trade not look as bad? Amazing. it's not nothing but it's nothing special either. I think BA could play as good defense with 20 some homers given the same scenario which isn't quite as good but not much off either. I would rather have the good starting pitcher (Javy) and the not quite as good BA than Young who isn't special. This scenario improves even more with acquisition of Flowers et al. from Atlanta. I think Flowers will turn into special hitter. He may be a DH, his defense has yet to be determined but I think he will hit. So as I said in another response the I think the Javy scenario is better than the Young scenario. Good pitching always is better than good hitting. You always get the good pitcher unless it's a special hitter. That is why trading Young was a good deal.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jan 19, 2009 -> 09:14 PM) Which sounds better than a lot of what we have now. not really. I think BA could come close to that, plus we got Javy who was a good starting pitcher for us. Then we turned him into the prospects from Atlanta and I think flowers is going to turn into a very good hitter. He might be a DH but he will hit and have a good OBP unlike the others we're discussing. So, personally I like the Javy scenario better than the Young scenario.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Jan 19, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) Chris Young's offensive stats look a lot more like Corey Patterson's than those of a "stud CF" to me. Everyone still talks about him so much like he's such a special player, but come talk to me when he puts up an OPS+ of 100 or more, his batting average is over .250 (he's never hit for a high average at any level btw, I don't think he's even broken .280), or his OBP doesn't look like a bottom of the order type hitter. I guess then I can be upset about what a great loss he is. At the time of the trade, I said he would be nothing more than Mike Cameron. Which is a good player but nothing special. Very good defensive CF with good power but will always be limited to the high strikeouts.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 18, 2009 -> 01:26 PM) Sox pitchers, namely Mark Buehrle, never perform well in these types of simulations or predictions because they use several sabermetric statistics in making their standings and Buehrle, like most Sox pitchers, never holds up well in these. Vazquez was always considered the Sox best pitcher using just raw numbers, but that never works. That's probably one of the biggest reasons why. This is because stats, as well as a number of people on this board, state that winning games is over rated by pitchers. They look at all of thenumbers other than wins to determine if you are a good pitcher. Buerhle "wins" more than his numbers show.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2009 -> 11:59 AM) It was always assumed he would be in the bullpen when he came back. If he came back earlier, do you think starting and throwing more pitches putting more pressure on the tendon could cause a major setback? Its great for Jose to work hard and try to get back sooner, but isn't there a danger even if it feels well now that it is the wrong thing to do? I have been one of Jose's biggest backers on this site, even when he was struggling. I think his rehab shows what kind of player he really is. I'm sure he has more than enough money to live the rest of his life pretty comfortably and he has another $10 million coming. There's really no telling how old he really is, so it would be easy for him to take a very conservate approach to rehab and if he couldn't pitch, he could just collect his paycheck and ride off into the sunset. He wants to earn his money. There is no substitution for pride. i don;t think the amount he throws will make a difference. It's the range that is needed to accomplish the motion that puts the stress on the tendon. As long as he has the range and strength and the medical staff feels the tendon has healed, you may as well let him throw. I have confidence in the Sox physicians as well as Herm Schneider that they wouldn't do anything that would jeopardize his health. As long as I have known Herm he has never been more aggressive than the condition warranted.

QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Jan 17, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) This is about the answer I woulda given. The surgery doesn't repair the tendon. It just brings the ends of the tendons together and your body does the mending. And it isn't like a broken bone that heals in a few weeks. Takes a looong time. And in that time, there's muscle atrophy. Once it does heal, the tendon is stiff as hell and a lot of the rehab is stretching it back out and getting mobility back. Takes a good while before it feels "normal" again. My concern for Contreras was his age, which has more to do with it than him being an athlete because your body repairs itself better when you're younger. And also, the stress that a pitching motion over and over throughout the course of a game puts on the tendon is more than what an "average" person is going to put on it. But also, there's no doubt in my mind that he is getting the best treatment possible at a more accelerated pace. He undoubtedly spent a lot less time in a cast than others do and was put in a boot to allow for more motion as it is healing so that the muscle atrophy isn't as bad and range of motion comes back faster. And as pointed out above, I also believe he probably had some sort of sheath placed over the tendon to make it stronger and that probably aided in a faster recovery. The stitches themselves are most likely degradable, however I'm willing to bet that they put a permanent augmentation device with it and that's why they were able to progress him at an accelerated rate. The repair term was meant surgically. When the two ends of the tendon are reconnected as well as the tendon sheath using stitches or other devices, it's usually referred to as repaired. Of course we can't repair tissue at a cellular level. We can only give the tissue the best environment for healing. This is the purpose of surgeries and rehab. Unless it was a range of motion boot it is still immobilized. There is still atrophy. The range of motion that the ankle needs to go through is a lot more than the average person needs the dorsiflexion or bringing the toes up, needs to be more than for a normal activity such as walking or even running and this puts a great deal of stress on the achiiles tendon. The only sheath in the area is the tendon sheath. The achilles tendon is one of the tendons in the body that has it's own sheath. It must be sticthed up as well to maintain the nutirent flow.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jan 17, 2009 -> 09:57 AM) Wow someone posts good news and people feel they need to s*** all over this team. Sometimes I really wonder why people even read this board. Although I suppose they tuned out the debacle that was last year and are now coming back to wonder why the payroll is not $200M. If Contreras and Colon are healthy they will be in the rotation. The time off for his arm and body as well as the weight loss will only make him better and stronger. Although he did lose the only playoff game in 2005 so he must f***ing suck. What was the difference between his and Mike Brown's injury? Wasn't Brown ready for training camp = 10 months and then 100%. Jose is a physical speciman and was in shape therefore he was a tad ahead of the game in that regard. Remember it is also a contract year so he has additional incentive. Also maybe, just maybe he has the drive and desire to come back and is pushing hard for it........nah he sucks like everyhting else related to the White Sox and remeber he has to be 45 years old which is why he is sitting back couting his $10M. I am off to the Cub convention. it was the same injury. Being in good physical shape doesn't really matter in this type of injury. This isn't a joint rpoblem or a cartilage problem where the player has a surgery and it's just a matter of getting range of motion and strength back. for these problems the sronger you are before surgery the quicker you come back. This was a tendon repair where they had to stitch pieces of tendon together and allow them to heal before they could begin stretching or strengthening. It's usually 2-3 months before they even allow stretching which makes the muscle weaker. My best guess is that they used an augmentation device in the tendon and felt that it gave the tendon enough tensile strength to progress earlier and more aggressive. this is a bonus for the Sox and should help solidify the rotation.

QUOTE (Steff @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 11:26 PM) I don't understand why you are so surprised. Everything I have read about the recovery process for non-athletes has him right on schedule. If anything I would say he's being cautious and taking it slow considering his physical condition is much better than then average person which generally means a faster injury recovery time. The non-athlete part is why I'm surprised. For someone who isn't going to put a great deal of stress on it they can go faster. Someone who is going to be pushing off and stressing on it, they usually are much more conservative. Also, with his age and size, they is more stress on it. It's good to see he is doing well it's just surprising and unusual to be this aggressive with a pro-athlete at his age and size.

QUOTE (Steff @ Jan 16, 2009 -> 10:22 PM) http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9090020...ling-for-Hudson Encouraging news for the White Sox: Right-hander Jose Contreras, recovering from a ruptured left Achilles tendon, has lost 25 pounds and already is throwing off a mound. Contreras was expected to miss at least nine months after undergoing surgery in August. His timetable could be accelerated. Wow, I'm really surprised that they are moving him that quickly. His rehab must be going really well. Looks like he can be the 4-5 starter. Maybe this was part of KW plan for the experience in the back of the rotation.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 03:49 PM) For the price they paid it should have turned the franchise into a money making machine. Instead the team gets off on the cheap invests little into the facility and reaps the rewards from guaranteed sell-outs and a great television contract. They can raise ticket prices as much as they like because of the long waiting list for season tickets and the mere fact that you are still only buying 10 games. This just means the city signed a bad deal with the team. It has nothing to do with the facility itself. The stadium is a good facility, the city politicians are idiots(what else is new) for signeingoff on the crappy deal.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 11:44 AM) They are cheap because they will not pay for real assistant coaches or to make Soldier Field a real NFL facility. Do you know that the Park District makes zero money on the Bears. If the Bears left that facility it would cost the Park District zero revenue lost. As a season ticket holder, I like Soldier Field. It's a heck of a lot better than the old one. The seat a better, they are closer to the field, the noise level incrased because of the up instead of out design. It is not the best looking stadium but once you are insde it is a stadium comparable to most in the NFL.

QUOTE (Brian @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 09:59 PM) This will definitely be a make or break year for Lovie. Won't have anyone else to blame if the defense underperforms. I like Lovie, so hopefully it works out. he can alway blame it on Angelo for not getting him the players he needs. Lovie will be here at until there is only 1 year left on his deal.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) IMO, Poreda should only be on the MLB roster if he outright wins the 5th starter spot in Spring Training. If not, send him to AAA and let him keep working on his secondary stuff. He's our best pitching prospect, and a pretty damn good one at that. Don't let him waste away in the bullpen. And don't bring up Buehrle either, totally different pitchers and scenarios. Sandy Koufax? Power Lefty, only a couple of pitches, refined from thrower to pitcher in the pen?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 12:37 PM) The one downside of that is that it would bury 2 of CR, JM, and AP in the minors, while the other is consigned to the pen. I'm something of a believer in a pitcher needing a chance to work the kinks out in the big leagues, most of the time, before they can move on. Floyd and Danks had really good 08 campaigns...but both of them got the chance to struggle in 07. McCarthy, for example, was pretty rough in his first campaign in the bigs in 05, but then was dynamite when he was called back at the end of the season. You get the occasional Verlander who just comes up and destroys people based on raw stuff, but if a guy needs to learn to pitch in the big leagues, then they need time to learn to pitch, and the 5th starter spot can be a useful place to do that. this is a really good point. At some time you need to break the pitchers into the MLB and they will suffer for a little while but you can usually see the ones who can make the adjustment. So ,even though they have a tough year, you know they will improve. The question then is, how many of these do you want in the rotation? If you break CP/AP in the bullpen in may benefit them and they can hit the ground running in the rotation later.

QUOTE (Steff @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 11:09 AM) Nope. But he had surgery mid August and according to WebMD normal folks start rehab after at the most 7 weeks. http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/ruptured-tendon?page=5 Achilles tendon Surgery to repair your Achilles tendon is recommended for active people who desire near normal strength and power in plantarflexion. An additional advantage with surgical correction is a lower rerupture rate of the tendon. After your operation, your foot will be immobilized with your toes pointing downward for 3-4 weeks and then progressively brought into neutral position over 2-3 weeks before weightbearing is started. Surgery carries with it a higher risk of infection than closed treatment. since he had surgery in mid- August, it will probably be around that time when he will bw with the Sox again. That is a conservative estimate based on rehab and throwing progress. But I don't see it any earlier than late July in the very best scenario. This is a return to the sox so he will be throwing earlier and getting ready.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 15, 2009 -> 10:22 AM) I haven't heard anything new, but it makes sense. A full achillies tear is a major rehab. They go in and stitch the thing back together in the surgery. Then you have to wait a long ( I want to say like 8-12 weeks) to make sure that it grew back together properly. Once you have that, then they begin a very basic rehab to get you back simple range of motion and strength. Once that is done, then you actually start to resume some normal activity. After that, then you can get into some more challenging activities. The problem is that once you have a tear, it is very easy to re-tear, which is why every step take so long. When they say a year to recover, that is very realistic from my experiences. Hopefully Ptac sees this and can give some more medical details. that's pretty accurrate for someone his age. The difference will be that they will use an augmentation device to help the repair heal faster and have more tensile strength later on. So he will begin moving a little earlier than the 8-12 weeks. As I've stated before with all of his variables (size,age etc.) I would guess it to be about a year from surgery that he will be pitching for the Sox at the MLB level. I don't remember when he had surgery but that should be about the time frame.

Looks like our pitching staff is complete. Starters (5) Buerhle Danks Floyd Colon Marquez Bullpen(7) Jenks Linebrink Dotel (kids from the yankmees) Thornton Richard Poreda

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 01:39 PM) A question to think about: did KW intend for this to be what his roster would look like on January 14th, or did he misjudge how the economy/market would play out? I have a very hard time believing that he wanted a roster with so many holes at this stage of the offseason. I disagree with this to an extent. I don't think he believes there are many holes in it. In the lineup he is confident in Fields based upon the performance two years ago before the knee injury. Second base has youngsters but both Getz and Lillibridge are highly thought of prospects. The Sox believe Ramierez can play short. C,1B,LF, RF and LF are manned by veterans. This leaves CF as the only hole with the team getting younger. The bullpen has Jenks, Linebrink, Dotel, and the kid from the Yankmees from the right side and Thornton from the left side. there are only 2 lefty spots remaining. The rotation is where he may still add. You have Buerhle, Danks and Floyd as locks with Marquez as a probable. Richard is either in the rotation or in the pen as an additional lefty if KW acquires an additional starting pitcher. I think plan all along as stated was to get younger. This team will have a good mix of veterans and youth if another pitcher is acquired. I think the eceonomy with so many players not signed and the options KW has because of this is the surprise. I'm not saying this team will contend this year but I think this is the plan with Thome and Dye coming off the books soon the team will convert from an old slow team to a more athletic younger team in a 2 year span. This doesn't bode well for this year (although there is no way they will finish last in the Central) but will get them to being a very good team with a young nulceus in a short period of time.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 14, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) You sound like you're outraged by that. I think that's how most teams seem to build title contenders lately. The problem is most people use the Yankees version of building a team. Get all the best plyers and you'll have the best team. This doesn't always work. With the Yankees that extra 80 million dollars per year of media money helps them. Most teams need to get the parts to fit together. Case in point a player like Podsednik. No one will say he was a great player but in a given game he stole a base advanced on a bunt and scored on a sac fly and we won 1-0. Now would I rather have Johnny Damon, Grady Sizemore or Brian Roberts? YES. But that just isn't an option with those players weither not available or not available unless you were bent over barstool. Picking up good players who fit their roles is the way the Sox will win.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 08:55 PM) An injury like that can change the pitcher drastically. Everything will be out of synch, and it would take a tremendous amount of time just to learn how to pitch again. If he were younger, I wouldn't be talking like this, but he's probably about 40 right now. I think his career is done. An injury to his achilles shouldn't change anything as long as he regains the flexibility and there isn't any reason he shouldn't. I've had many patients come back from this injury and do fine. This includes patients in baseball, football, rugby players, triathletes and marathon runners. The only reason his career would be over is that he was declining before the injury.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 08:52 PM) The thing is, what makes you think Garcia would magically be able to fill one of those spots? He can barely hit 80 on the radar gun, and there is no indication of him being able to hold for any significant amount of time. He had a flare up in the shoulder over the winter as well. So who knows how the rehab is coming. It generally takes a full year of throwing to top out at the shoulder strength again. Who knows where that top will be and he still needs to throw more before he gets there. I could see him being a 5-6 inning guy until he rebuilds the arm but he is a big question mark and not a sure thing by any stretch of the imagination.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jan 11, 2009 -> 06:39 PM) I don't think we should plan on Contreras coming back anytime soon, if ever. At his age, that injury potentially ended his career, IMO. the injury shouldn't end his career. An achilles tendon repair is a fairly easy one compared to most. even in the general orthopedic population the rehab is 6-9 months. With getting back into pitching shape and such I would guess he could be ready at about one year post surgery. Wasn't it around the All-Star break that we lost him? That being said, he wasn't really pitching well last year so who knows how effective he could be this year.

It's obivious that many of the players are seeking an advantage by improving their focus and concentration. This is what many of the ADHD drugs do. However, many of them with have the opposite effect on patients who are misdiagnosed. It will be interesting to see how many of the players have the opposite effect.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 31, 2008 -> 03:41 PM) Frankly, I don't like that health insurance is a for-profit industry. I won't go so far as to say I want socialized insurance (YET, because I haven't become convinced it's the wrong idea yet either), and definitely not full-blown government-run healthcare, but this is somewhere I don't think the pure free market is the answer. the only problem is that the socialization of medicine maybe economically better but is horrible for the consumer and the provider. There isn't a single country that has socialized medicine that is approved by it's citizens. Everyone I know from those countries wants a job they can in which they can climb the ladder high enough to get private insurance. The medical professionals don't like it either because more often than not their hands are tied and they cannot provide the care they should. Socialized medicine doesn't improve medical care. It only prescribes that all people will have mediocre healthcare and will bring the ceiling and floor of care to the middle. Kind of like the current state of the NFL, lots of mediocre teams with many holes in them and nothing particularly great. (I had to bring sports in somehow).

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 24, 2008 -> 11:22 AM) So, Yonder is not far away huh? I always wondered where Yonder was. I thought it was over. And here it is near Cincinnati. Who woulda thunk it.