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QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 06:28 PM) I don't get this philosophy. Who says we couldn't get MORE for him than what we got? Why do people assume we could have gotten MORE in every trade? KW always settles for the wrong package in trades. Looking at other teams message boards, thier "fans" say the same thing. The Angels message board couldn't believe that all they got for a gold glove shortstop who is really coming into his own with hitting was a barely average innings innings starter when they already had 5-6 good starting pitchers. Unless you know of another offer on the table that was significant better than this one, of course.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 10, 2007 -> 04:37 PM) 1. So? Timo was the All Star MVP, wasn't he? And Heath Phillips dominated that league. It is an atrocious league, and he makes starts in places other than Charlotte, sorry -- that an "old" (age and experience) pitcher beats up on that league means s***. 2. No. a.) The Tigers lineups, and the size of that field, helped Gavin more than you can now; and Cleveland? They faced him in the rain -- the fortune of circumstance! (I also believe many starters were out.) b.) I don't hate him -- I just know who he is, and I'm not going to pretend that him starting for the White Sox is anything but trouble. 3. Rich Hill was at Iowa until he was 26, he was older than Gavin. Hill had decent success for the Cubs. I would be pleased if he performed as well as Hill.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 10:25 PM) If 2nd helpings is still on this team, he will be the starting 2nd baseman. There will be a "competition" that will wind up with Uribe winning it. Hawk will talk about how Uribe can carry a team, and how Uribe and Cabrera would be the bestest infield in the history of baseball. Ozzie will talk about a "new and refocused" Profundo who will once again swing at balls that bounce it. If he is on the team come ST, he will start. I would be completely shocked if Richar starts if Uribe is still here. On the same thought, if Crede is here Ozzie will park Fields on the bench or they will send him down to get him solid ABs. We will go for it, only to fail and cost our kids an opportunity to get better. Its a vicious circle of craptitude. If Crede is still around, he will start. Only to showcase him to prove he is healthy to bring more in a trade.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 9, 2007 -> 06:39 PM) Yeah they have a lot of integrity, just ask the old injured players looking for help paying their medical bills while the McCaskey's and the rest in their fraternity count their money. That's not a McCaskey issue it's a union issue. The NFLPA has done an adequate job in obtaining benfeits for recent players but has never adequately addressed what to do about the older players. Why because the current players really don't care about what happened to the players before there was the escalation of salaries. "They didn't pay the share that we do, so why should we pay for them." It's tough issue because I can see both sides of it.

Watch "the sky is falling" and KW bashing when Fukudome picks the Cubs because they are more well known internationally.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 8, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) So I guess we're hoping like hell that the Angels decide to acquire Scott Rolen. I still like the idea of making a run at Reggie Willits if Figgins isn't available though. Of all of the options out there, Willlits maybe my favorite.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Dec 7, 2007 -> 07:16 PM) Ozzie isn't immature; he's just young AND old-school. One day, he'll be like Bobby Cox or Tony LaRussa -- assuming he can get a General Manager and Owner who give him good horses, anyway. Crap that's right!!! Look at how many more World Series wins Bobby Cox has than Ozzie!!!!!!

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 6, 2007 -> 06:06 PM) I'm pretty sure they'd rather keep Kemp instead of Ethier, just because of the power potential Kemp has. Kemp would probably cost us DLS (unless we were willing to trade Konerko, they could move Loney to RF again). I think they've been rumored still to be after a third baseman though, and Crede could be a good fit for them. Still a lot of question over Andy LaRoche's back, so if they let him have a good season in AAA for a whole year, and then they can either trade him or promote him depending on how well Crede does in 2008. Crede for Ethier, maybe with us giving up one of our bullpen arms possibly (may have to throw in a prospect as well). I would love to get Ethier. I think he will be a very good player in the years to come. I hope that package would do it.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) That is another big lie from the Sox management. They say Boras is not an issue, but we never keep our players represented by him or trade for those he reps. I will not change my stance that a move to trade Crede is not a good one for this team, but of course that doesn't mean a thing as I am not KW. As a fan I can tell you that I am not happy with these types of decisions though. the only reason Boras is an issue is that he overvalues his clients and lies to other teams about what his client has been offered. The man lies and cheats to get his client the best offer. Some people don't mind it, others prefer to deal with others. I would prefer to deal with others.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 04:36 PM) I am tired of it. I posted this same type of reply to something on the board. We hear it every year. We will spend the money to build a winner, but we only see the opposite. ths Sox have nearly 100 million committed to 14 players. By the time the final rosters are in they will have a top 5-7 salary in baseball? More than enough money to compete. I'ts not how much you spend it's spending it properly. I don't think you can knock them for how much but if it's spent on the appropriate players. The biggest deals are to Thome, Buerhle, Dye, Konerko, Vasquez, contreras and cabrera I believe. Start getting rid of the contracts you disagreed with when they were signed or obtained. Let 'er rip.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) Thome doesn't hit into too many double plays (you have to make contact for that to happen). The person hitting behind him would. Too many slow station to station guys equals many double plays.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) Let me ask you folks this. Everyone here seemed to throw up in despair yesterday and declare the season horribly, horribly lost. Let's imagine this, we do a Fields and Gio for Bedard swap (just accept the principle for a second). We also sign Rowand, blowing $30 million a year on keeping those 2. Does that make us an AL Central contender to your eyes? How much better does that make us that what we have right now, and is it worth that kind of money for those upgrades? If people are so insistent on believing that KW fouled up and we're screwed no matter what this year because the Tigers and Indians are so good, then wasting money locking ourselves in to long term, piecemeal upgrades is not going to solve that problem. I agree. Move on from here and begin to gain experience for the young players: Fields, Richar, Quentin and build as we can without the long heavy contracts to weigh the team down.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 5, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) nobody is saying its too late to assemble the team, the frustrating part is that many of the pieces people envisioned on the 08 team are gone because either we 1.) got out bid or 2.) have finally seen that 5 years of deteriorating a farm system without replenishing it is finally catching up to us hopefully the changes in the scouting department will help this. The scouting and development of players is the greatest weakness in this organization.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 05:06 PM) The Dodgers were going to offer Jones a contract until Boras threw out a few numbers. They didn't bother. I am on record as saying the White Sox signing Andruw Jones would be the most shocking signing in team history. I agree. I can't see KW going the 18 million or a long contract with him.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:59 PM) I'm not too familiar with the injury. How and/or will it affect his swing? I would guess at the very least it would zap some strength that would need to be built up over time. Could he be at full strength by opening day? He will be at full strength. The labrum is a piece of cartilage which surrounds the shoulder socket to make it more stable. The bicep tendon attaches to the superior potion of it which is why pitchers tend to injure it also. During a swing the humeral head in the shoulder will rise, spin and compress this area. So this area hurts and the batter cannot fully raise up the arm to follow through with the swing. It is a piece of cartilage like in the knee. The MD in this case will tack it down and tighten the area a little. So it's not a matter of strength as much as healing time and regaining normal motion. He should be ready around ST and for the season

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:53 PM) I can't see the Sox having any interest for Luke Scott unless of course they are trading Quentin elsewhere. That would be more than fine value though, its just its not a need unless Sox could get a 3rd team involved. I like the idea of Burke as a bench guy who will be around a couple years and has the talent to start (really was awful last year though). I just think Crede can get you more than that. Back problems with players under 30 really scare people, regardless if they are currently doing well so value will not be there in the eye of the receiving organization.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) According to an article posted at SouthSideSox, he had surgery in October. I'll double-check immediately after posting this. If that's the case then he should be ready or very close to it depending on the doc's protocol. Especially since it was his non-throwing shoulder.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:42 PM) Sox still don't have the pieces to get him, but if there is anyway to bring him to Chicago, you do it. could this be the genesis of the Konerko to the D'Backs scenario. We trade for Cabrera then trade Konerko to the D'Backs to clear the money.

QUOTE(South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) So will he be able to play in ST? I didn't ask that, I just wanted to know how the surgery went and how it was doing. When was the surgery? That type of surgery isn't anymore than 4-6 months on the very conservative end. From what I've heard he is progressing very well.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) Hopefully Quentin is 100% and will be able to really turn things around. I also want the Sox to be patient with him. I'm also exstatic to hear they would consider moving Paulie. Afterall, there are almost zero bats out there (Cabrera is an amazing bat, but aside from that teams would have to give up a ton of cash for Jones or Rowand and neither of them are the consistent bat that Paulie is nor do I think he's a risk to be named on the Mitchell report like a certain SS from the Orioles that is on the market). He is. I called around to find out. By all reports he is doing very well.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) Do you know something? I don't doubt it only because Crede has a higher salary and is more injury prone Bob And his agent won't talk long term deal until he is a free agent.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 12:04 AM) //A diverting rant That's going to be such a joke. Baseball is going to be crucified. Meanwhile, is anything ever mentioned about Shawne Merriman being suspended for steroids? Nope -- hell, he's featured in that neat little commercial Nike (?) has out. It pisses me off the way the media perceives steroids/PEDs in baseball versus steroids/PEDs in football. I think alot of it has to do with the public perception of each sport. In football the only people who can play it are the big monsters so they are expected to take Steriods. Baseball is supposed to be the sport anyone, any size can play. There fore people get down on baseball. Also there is so much more gambling in football that many more people only care about winning at all costs and want their monsters on streoids. These are the expectations I get from working in both fields. Say Hi to Marquette for me

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 01:55 PM) We have 2 of those already in the big leagues under our control for several years and another potential one in the minors (Sisco) still trying to work through his issues. It'd have been nice if someone would have given us something for him, but if a team didn't have a spot for him on their 25 man roster next year, there'd be no reason to trade for him because they'd just lose him at the end of ST. I agree. I'm not opposed to the DFA but I don't think he is worthless as many seem to think.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) Phillips had near-zero trade value. Kind of like Andy Gonzalez, who we all hope comes off next (and should have come off for Hernandez). I still think Phillips will make a decent lefty middle reliever. Nothing special but capable.

QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 1, 2007 -> 11:34 PM) IMO you are 100% correct. I was hoping we'd be the team making big moves, not the Twins. The Twins to me were contenders w/ Garza, Johan, Liriano, etc...Them selling off all these pieces isn't shocking but I thought'd they'd at least try to make a run. The Sox on the other hand are going the opposite direction and losing out in every direction we turn. We go after big fish and seem to fail. It paints the picture to fans, and other teams even, that we have a weaker system then percieved. We are very old and our lack of scouting doesn't show significant help anytime soon. We don't go all-in money for free agents or in trades. We refuse to do business with the douchebag who just so happens to be employed by most of the good players in baseball and we refuse to do little things in the organization...like scouting! The Twins are dumping guys and revamping. They do it more often then I am saying we should but we definately should've done it this year or even last season. We have a chance to have a very good draft. We have a shot to make some huge moves with our vets and just don't. IMO guys like PK, JV, JD, Crede, Jenks*, and several others should go. *Watch what the Twins get for Nathan and tell me how dumb we will look at seasons end when we finish in last place with a 100+ mil payroll. Jenks could command probably one more 4-5 star prospect then Nathan, maybe more. We won't deal him though. Why deal the guy with weight concerns every year and a screw in his elbow. It'd be stupid to deal it before anyone else starts to have concerns. To me, this season has nothing to do with winning the WS. It has everything to do with EGO. KW is so into his moves and his "plans" that he wants to prove that 05 wasnt a fluke and that some of his moves can actually pay off. He put this baby together and will ride until the end with it (which is hopefully at seasons end). It's going to be a loooooooong season if things don't start shaping up soon. Maybe everyone did have concerns which is why we were able to get him when the Angles cut him.