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First one I remember was in 1975 when the White Sox played the Brewers and I got to meet Hank Aaron. The Sox won the game but I don't remember the score.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jan 31, 2007 -> 04:23 PM) Actually, a right handed hitting outfielder who can play LF is very important. Some might consider Ozuna passable in LF....I don't. I love his hustle and what he brings to the team on offense, but his defense is mediocre. Just like having a strong back-up righty catcher, it's very important in our division to have someone we can play in LF against the likes of C.C., Johan, etc. We need all the help we can get on offense vs tough LHP. I love how people like to say it's minute details, but it's those tiny details which really hurt us last year (lack of back-up CF, terrible back-up catcher, no long relief). I continue to disagree. We were hurt by poor pitching. If MB and the rest of the pitchers all have don't have subpar years, we win. The same thing applies this year. The only reason those handful of games we lost last year due to poor right handed back ups make a difference is because the pitchers blew so many other games. If the pitching does well we win, if the pitching dalters all of the good right handed backups won't do us any good. I know we continue to disagree on this and have different philosophies on how to win but that's the way it goes.

Anyone getting up and leaving a row in the middle of an at bat shall be tarred and feathered with a Cub Logo

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 11:14 PM) Once again, not ALL steroids are for increasing of strength. There are several different kinds. Its not a white bottle that is marked "steroids" and you take it for everything. There are substances that you take that can increase your fast twitch muscle fiber, there are steroids for strength and building muscle, there are even steroids that help you cut your body into leaner muscle. IMO Koch was on the juice, he may not have been looking for strength gains, he could have been looking for rebuilding substances that help him throw harder each game because his recovery time is ridiculous, it could be the fast twitch muscle substances that helped him snap the ball quicker in his delivery. Whatever the case, I believe that he took them, and I think its clear that he may have. Its my opinion, it wont get anyone on the site in trouble, im not mentioning sources or anything. I am saying, to me, it looks like he was one of the more obvious juicers that had come through our clubhouse. Your exactly righton how steriods are used and that is my point. Pitchers do not take steriods for strength as a whole. They take it for endurance and recuperation. As far as the fast twitch muscles, the muscles which specifically control the shoulder are the rotator cuff muscles. These muscles are unipennate muscles composed of more type IIa fibers or the fast twitch fibers with higher glycolytic and vascular properities like slow twitch muscles. They are not effected by steriods as much as the bigger muscles with larger cross sections. As I said before however muscle strength does not correlate to pitch speed. Koch may very well have been on steriods. That was the rumor but I didn't know him. The idea that a sudden drop in pitch speed has no bearing on determining if someone was on steriods. Recovery time, injuriesand body composition all would be a better determination than pitch speed. That is my point.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 06:45 PM) Can I see the stats on the term "most." Koch was a juicer. 100 MPH one day, 92 mph the next. The guy is out of baseball like that. Im sorry if you love him or whatever, but the guy was a one and done bust in the midst of the steroid era. The "most" is just from my experience with the pitchers as they are not admitting to the public they did steroids. Unless you have stats on all of the admitted steriods users. As I said before strength is not correlated to speed of the pitch. A drop in pitch speed would not be linked to strength. An injury, change in mechanics or drop in weight could be linked more easily. I'm not saying they can't be linked it's just that from people I've talked to they seem to think that it's more of an endurance recuperation issue not strength. Which makes sense in light of the lack of evidence which correlates strength and pitch speed.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 04:39 PM) I tend to agree with it. I tihnk from a relievers perspective (based on what I've read and heard via quotes in the media) is that it enables you to recover quicker and be able to throw in more games with your A stuff. That said I could see roids being able to help a bit with velocity but I don't know how much so (I think it would depend on the pitcher). For example....say Jamie Moyer decided to juice....I can't see roids giving him another 5 MPH on his fastball. Now say someone thats 6'5, 170 that throws 92-94 (maybe even hits 95 on rare ocassions) well I could see roids and a proper workout regime upping his velocity to where he consistently throws 94 and ocassionally hits 96. It's possible to add the speed. Remember velocity implies a direction which many of them don't have However many times the speed increase has more to do with mass more than strength. If your 170 lbs pitcher became a 190 lbs pitcher the ball may go faster just due to the mass propelling it. Bigger guys on average throw harder than little guys. There are always exceptions (Wagner). There are other factors as well, including length of lever arms and such. If the muscles are stronger and better conditioned it's more likely the endurance is increased and the rate of injury is decreased.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) Koch=roids I cant believe its being taken the other way. Surprise loss of velocity, almost 10 mph? come on. The guy was a text book roider IMO actually most pitchers who have taken steriods say it doesn't necessarily increase velocity but it increases your endurance to hold the velocity over a game or to recover more quickly before the next game. This has a lot to do with the fact that strength is not directly correlated to pitch speed. People use the term arm strength and equate pitch speed. however this is not always true.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) Boo the results, but it was impossible to boo the man or the effort. Koch has more character than we are use to seeing in an athlete. I really disliked seeing his career crater like that. Far more satisfying to have seen a 'roid player crater like that. While he was in the league steriods was the rumor about him. The depression and mental illness can be a symptoms of someone during their off cycle. The steroids change the chemistry of being hyped up and the crash that happens to some people can really effect them. This has been blmed in some suicide attemtps and unfortunate successes. I don't know any of this for a fact just throwing it out there as it was the rumors because of similar behaviours.

This is awful. I know all of these little towns as it's my route from my lake cottage to Indy for the 500. I can't image the horror it's caused. There is no room in humanity for a person like this.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 24, 2007 -> 10:47 PM) Depends a ton IMO. Is that .380 OBP composed of a .380 SLG, or a .480? What is the second guy's SB% and SLG%? If his SB% is like 66% like Podsednik's, then he shouldn't be trying to steal that friggin much in the first place. If it's 80-85%, he's money. If his slugging is in the .450-.500 range, he's valuable too.That's why I would have had no problem with Rollins as a leadoff hitter. He makes up for his low OBP by being in scoring position a ton. However, I'm throwing variables into the equation. In almost every other example, I agree completely with you. Right out of a Bill James textbook. There are other factors. The stress of the pitcher throwing over to first if a guy has a reputation to steal. Believe it or not pitchers are human they can become distracted and worry about a guy threatening to steal. This has become more apparent in today's game because few players steal as much so the pitchers are uncomfortable when they see it. both views have their advantages and disadvantages that's why I think a good mix is the way to go. One doesn't need to be stuck to one particular way. But I do like the overall philosophy of there are many different ways that players can be useful, they just don't all boil down to numbers.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 25, 2007 -> 03:32 AM) it also said he should be back during spring training.... Don't bet on it with that mtype of surgery,

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2007 -> 05:59 PM) Cliff Floyd's contract with the Cubs is so flexible and creatively structured, it can turn into anything from a one-year, $3 million deal to a two-year, $17.5 million deal. There is just a one-year guarantee, at $3 million. But it contains a player option, a club option and a vesting option for 2008. If the option vests (at 425 plate appearances or 100 games started), Floyd has the right to opt out next winter and become a free agent. Otherwise, the club holds the option. Floyd can earn up to $7.5 million in 2007 if he's healthy enough to reach all of his plate-appearance, games-played and roster incentive levels. He can make up to $17.5 million over two years if he has 550 plate appearances in each of the next two years. He would make $15.5 million if he gets 500 plate appearances in each of the next two years. Talk about your bad defensive outfields. Floyd, Soriano and Jones.

QUOTE(knightni @ Jan 24, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) So, you gonna sit there and make comments or are you going to "man up" and join? I really wish I could. I was in an ABPA league back in the day. However, research, students and kids keep me too busy to join and devote the time it needs to get manical and truly enjoy it. If I did it now it would only be half-hearted and wouldn't be fun.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Jan 24, 2007 -> 01:01 PM) I'm trying to remember back to when the Sox had only one good OFer. What happens if Dye gets injured ? We have Erstad in LF, Anderson in CF and Sweeney in RF. That would have to be the worst outfield in baseball. I think Sweeney will be a very good player - in 2009 or 2010 and probably the same for Anderson. How far back would you have to go find a worse Sox outfield than what we have now ? Pasqua, Calderon and Gallagher?

Doesn't everybody on this board know more than KW?

Let's put it this way. I went to all of the Sox playoff and WS games I could. I let my cousin and father have the Super Bowl tickets (although I did go to the playoff games).

Wow, many of you guys are heartless. This guy is having surgeries and busting his rear to come back. I realize many think stolen bases and speed are useless but you don't need to tear the guy to shreds. He was never much more than an average to an above average player at his best who busted his rear to do whatever he could. Depending on the severity of the problem this could very well be the end of a short career. i'm not sure what the problem is because it was kept quiet and no one was talking. but give the guy a break.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 22, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Exactly, that's why I added "in my mind". I'm the weirdo who you see wearing the Mackowiak or Maynard jersey, I just don't see the point in wearing a jersey that every other person at the game is wearing and besides my favorite players are often unpopular or overlooked by the general fanbase. Like my game used White Sox #24 Warren Newson jersey. I'm with you. Go for the obscure and rare jersey instead of the popular ones.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) I think another remarkable thing is how many hitters will just take a first-pitch and not even consider swinging at it to get an advantage. Best example that I ever saw of this was in the 2004 playoffs...maybe it's just my memory being fuzzy, but I swear to God that it seemed like no one EVER threw David Ortiz a first pitch strike, and David Ortiz never swung at the first pitch, so he started almost every single at bat with the advantage. Lance Johnson never saw a first pitch he didn't like. I don't think I ever saw Wade Boggs swing at the first pitch.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 06:10 PM) That is an excellent point. And no, I don't have an answer just yet. I have a general idea what Obama is like as a figure, but I know little on his issues, and I don't see a theme (or themes) yet from him. Of course, having read some things about Bush's early decision on the Presidency, he didn't really have a "reason" either. At least, not what I'd consider a good one. Thius is what a lot of people say. And when you think about it, no one really knows where he stands on anything except the War in Iraq. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 01:51 PM) That is oversimplifying quite a bit. No back surgery is ever a guarantee, any more than therapy is or isn't. Yes, the Sox expressed their desire for the surgery, but that is not the same thin as saying if he had done it, that they would have automatically signed him long term. Crede's back is not the only issue, or even necessarily the main issue, of his future with the team. This is true. However therapy can be more effective if you do not have a significant disc bulge changing the mechanics of the spine or compressing the nerve to cause pain. The whole issue revolves around the significance of the disc herniation. If you can reduce and control it through therapy surgery is not needed. The motion which puts the most stress on the disc is rotation. Rotation is the motion Crede must do in order to follow through on his swing. It can be done but it is very difficult to control a disc herniation in a person whose job requires them to rotate thier trunk. I know and trust the medical staff for the organization and if they do not feel it can be controlled without surgery, I would be inclined to agree. The time missed each of the past two seasons also makes me inclined to believe this.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 11:46 AM) I'm glad Crede has signed quickly as the Sox now can focus on tearing that deal up and giving him a new one that sets himself up for the rest of his life. Remember, having Joe signed makes him even easier to move (especially at this figure in 07 with teams knowing they still have the rights to him in 08). Beware of people under 30 y/o with disc problems. The discs shouldn't wear out in someone that young. Long term deal may be an unwise investment.

QUOTE(StatManDu @ Jan 13, 2007 -> 12:37 AM) It was Ron LeFlore who got hit in the head with a flyball. Also, it was Carlos May who had his thumb tragically blown off -- not Carlos Lee. This is a great thread. To me, the dumbest moment in White Sox history encapsulated what a mistake the Terry Bevington Era was. I am remembering a nationally televised game in Baltimore on Fox. Terry ordered an intentional walk. After intentional ball three, he visited the mound. Realizing he had just made an embarrassing mistake, Bev had no choice but to turn around and return to the dugout. After intentional ball four was delivered, Bevington returned to the mound and made his pitching change. That was the same year Bev tried to make a pitching change with no one warming up. I once saw Warren Newson go from first to third on a caught pop up. Just put his head down and started running. I think Chester did as well, however maybe I'm just getting old.

The many times Chet Lemon got hit in the head with a fly ball.

other than some of the others such as Little Wing Blinded by the Light Manfred Man Because the Night Patti Smith I fought the Law The Dead Kennedys Poor Poor Pitiful Me Terri Clark I Shot the Sheriff Clapton