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QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 07:49 PM) I'm glad Freddy fooled somebody in 2006. I know 17 game winners suck, they can't do anything right. The hitters bailed him out every game. All the games were 10-9.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 03:03 PM) It would have made sense if acquiring Vazquez meant trading another starter --while their value was at it's highest -- for both bullpen help and SP prospects. McCarthy could have then been inserted into the rotation. I never took to the belief often cited that holding McCarthy as insurance in the bullpen was necessary. That, in the event a starter was injured, he would be pitching in the rotation. If worse came to worse and a season ending injury occured to a starter, that's tough luck. You can't reasonably construct every team to have five solid pitchers and fully capable starting pitcher in the bullpen. I believe in maximizing a players effectiveness -- MccArthy in the bullpen doesn't solve that. Haeger would have likely been added midseason, anyways. Far as trading Reed, I'll admit I HATED the trade. Thought Olivo/Reed/Morse was too much for Garcia. Difference is, at that point in 2004, Anderson, Sweeney, Young we're still hopefuls for the future. It was reasonable to conclude atleast one would be a servicable OF. However, now -- in 2006-- with Young gone and Anderson struggling we're left with Sweeney; whom may take several more years to develop as well. Aside from Sweeney, there's little else aside from Podsednik-lite in Owens. 1. I agree about McCarthy. I believe KW and Ozzie didn't think he was quite ready and were easing him into the majors ala Santana. They were hoping he wouldn't be needed. 2. Olivo was a good catch no hit catcher, Morse was a 3 time busted steroid offender and Reed was a good OF prospect. Any trade where you can get an established good major league pitcher for a good OF prospect and two at best fringe hitters is a good deal. The team that acquires the most pitching usually gets the better of the deal.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 04:31 PM) Fact is, we all know he juiced. All of the players that Jose ratted out were Juicers. He shouldnt be in the Hall. Cheating in baseball is just as bad as Pete Rose betting on it IMO. At least when Rose played he gave it his all honestly. This is the point in question. Steroids were not against the rules of baseball at the time. He DID NOT CHEAT. Everyone on this board know how I feel about steriods. They will kill you and are ethically wrong and illegal. However, it si not cheating in baseball. I am torn about the decision to let him in the HOF. What he did was wrong and illegal but not cheating. This is simialr to Paul Molitor not getting in because of cocaine abuse. In my eyes it's wrong and illegal but not cheating. So for now

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 04:22 PM) Entertaining such a possibility, if Vazquez is going then we better damn well receive Pelfrey in return. the reports I read about Pelfrey in the AFL was that he still has a long way to go on off speed stuff. He seems to be too far away to help us by 2008 with FA pitchers. I still like the Texas and Danks deal. If nothing else this gives us another topic to bounce around. The other rumors were getting stale. Maybe KW is just doing this to entertain us

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 02:34 PM) UH OH. Looks like we'll no longer have the argument of, "well, Williams trades prospects, but how often do any of them turn into quality players? I can only assume whichever starter delt will give us a prospect comparable to Chris Young.........right? It would have made perfect sense, once Vazquez was on our ballclub, to insert McCarthy then trade a starting pitcher for a collection of bullpen arms/SP prospects. This would have solved our bulpen woes, but again, who knows if it would have made a difference? Perhaps Thornton is never saught. I didn't have forsight into the future, obviously, but I knew full well it wasn't smart placing a starting pitcher such as McCarthy into the bullpen. This deal hurts even more when you look at flailing Brian Anderson adjust to major league pitching. It's embarrassing. And there isn't exactly any OF prospects aside from Sweeney, whose hardly on Young's level, available to contribute. We're going to have Vazquez for, what, two more seasons? Young would have been a welcomed addition in CF for the next 6+ years. Lesson learned for Williams. You give up quality prospects, you better damn well hope they player obtained is more reliable than Javier Vazquez. And, preferably, around for more than three seasons. You shouldn't evaluate the trade after one year. I think you are giving up on Anderson too soon and giving Young All -Star status too soon. Let's see how Young does in his first years in the league and compare them to Anderson's. I still think prior to last year getting Vazquez made sense to win in the short term. Young still hasn't made the jump to big league regular. He wouldn't have helped us last year.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 11:32 AM) It doesnt look like there is much of a market for that unfortunately. Something needs to be done, somehow though. We need a lead off hitter, some bullpen help and possibly younger SP's. I think KW will find a good trade. You have identified the areas the Sox need but I would list them in priority as: bullpen, young SPs then lead off hitter. The bullpen needs to shut teams down after good starter performances. There is nothing more frustrating than watching a good pitching performance for 7 innings and having the lead pissed away in the final two innings. We have a good hard throwing group so far but it needs a little more help.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) Crawford should be the number one target regardless of anything. Quality pitching should be.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Nov 27, 2006 -> 08:26 AM) This team will not win the best division in baseball with Uribe, Podsednik, and Anderson in the lineup. That is basically 3 free outs out of 9 everytrip through the order (33 percent, 1/3, etc). We need a minimum of 1, maybe 2 upgrades at those spots, and damn I hope the trade we make giving up a starter can help us. I think this is a little short sighted. Everyone of those players will be better this year than last year. Uribe has done it before. Pods while not great was an acceptable players for leadooff. Anderson well in case you forgot he was a rookie and will improve. I agree that if improvements can be had at a reasonable price it should be done. However, with the way rhis market is currently going I'm not sure any of that is possible. I would rather trade our starter for pitching help instead of offense. This team can win those players in the lineup if the pitching improves. I'm sure you know the stats of where our offense ranked last year. If we have the same lineup with improved seasons from those 3 and improved pitching we will be in it for the division.

QUOTE(SABR Sox @ Nov 26, 2006 -> 09:42 PM) Nobody is arguing this. Then why propose deals to revamp the offense. Stick with improving the pitching staff. The offense is effective and relatively affordable. Maybe a small move here or there but focus on the pitching.

QUOTE(SABR Sox @ Nov 26, 2006 -> 07:40 PM) I don't thake the notion that far. Usually your most productive hitters hit in the 3-5 sports and they should stay there. However a quality player should hit in the one-spot. Unfortunatley Scott Podsednik isn't (and never really was) a quality hitter. I don't want to get into the 00-04 Sox teams either. Most of those teams were good offensive teams if I recall correctly. You don't need speed and "mixture" of hitter to win. You simply need guys that are going to get on base and guys that'll hit for power. Yankees and Red Sox offenses, nothing wrong with 'em. Combine those offenses with good pitching and your chances of making it into October are pretty damn good.I agree with the first sentance, which is simply why I don't want Scott Podsednik leading off. I'd like a little bit of everything on top. Power, and even a little speed and decent walking ability. Since thier walk percentages are virtually a wash, one has to choose between a lot of speed, or power. The decision is oh so simple in my mind. Iguchi has better OBP's too. And al I'm suggesting is that they give it a shot. Who knows if an opportunity comes along to upgrade at LF and replace Pods with a more powerful type bat Iguchi could end up in the one hole next year. Doubtful, but I'd like it. Combine any offense in the top ten with good pitching and you'll be in october. Our offense is fine. We need to upgrade the pitching staff, the bullpen for this year and the rotation for the future.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Nov 26, 2006 -> 09:48 AM) Our 40-man is full. We can't pick anyone. We could in the minor league portion.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Nov 25, 2006 -> 09:11 PM) Iowa State crushes something called Lake Superior State, 90-61. Taylor finished with 22 pts, but the walkons started playing in the first half. Great hockey team. Basketball...not so much. It's hard to play basketball on ice.

QUOTE(joeynach @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 06:26 PM) This is why Shannon stewart is becoming more and more intising. I know hes often injured but it would be a low risk if we could get him for an incentive laden deal with an option or something. If he can stay healty, which he might not playing on turf and with the best med staff in the game he could be huge for us. A .300 hitter with a .360 obp playing left field for an affordable price. If he did well I wouldn't hesistate to give him 3 years 21 mil or something. Beware of outfeilders with foot problems, it's worse than chronic hamstring problems. A DH like Thomas could get by. An outfielder cannot. Do not sign him.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Nov 24, 2006 -> 07:37 PM) It sucks that Wisconsin lost, but they went 1-15 from the 3 point line so the fact they only lost by 2 is not so bad. Also it has to be brutal to have a game the Friday after Thanksgiving before 12 in the morning. I didnt see the game at all, but most Wisconsin boards that I read said that this game would be a test. Bad news is they lost, good news is that its not even 2007 yet so might as well take a few close loses now and grow. Like I said earlier MSU was really psyched for the game. If Wisconsin took them at all lightly. (I don't know for sure) I knew they would have their hands full.

They just said on ESPN that Lee signed a 6 year deal. They didn't state the money.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 23, 2006 -> 10:23 AM) Can I ask what your nephews name is? I bet they'll play close, I don't think they'll win(certainly wouldn't shock me if they did win) but I'd bet on it being a competitive game. He is Justin Fuermeyer the Skinny white point guard

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Nov 22, 2006 -> 04:53 PM) So the next 4 days are absolutely huge for the valley: We have Arkansas tomorrow and then maybe V-Tech on Sunday if we could advance to the championship, Missouri State plays Wisconsin on Friday, Creighton plays G.Mason and Wichita State plays LSU on Saturday. My nephew plays for MSU. They are psyched for that game. I don't think they can come close to hanging with Wisconsin but it should be fun.

QUOTE(beautox @ Nov 22, 2006 -> 08:50 PM) , as long as hes not beating his wife(if he has one) or doing blow off of hookers, i could care less, so long as he plays hard on the diamond. Carl Everett says hi, twice. Better leave out Julio Lugo then.

JR will not sign a pitcher for more than 4-5 years. And I highly doubt he will do it for 5. This is why the trade for one of starting pitchers is important. You have a few established veterans and slide in a young pitcher each year and keep the rotation going. You trade for some veterans who only have a few years left on thier deal ie Vazquez. This will build a good pitching staff. I think this is the reason the recent drafts have focused on safe picks. They may not be studs but you have a much better chance of having that cheap pitcher in the rotation on a consistent basis. Whether this philosophy will be good enough to wins another WS (I still love saying another not if we can win one) remians to be seen. The White Sox will always operate on a budget so the thoery seems sound to me.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 22, 2006 -> 12:30 AM) Gosh damn -- did McRoberts cry on every shot that he missed or what? Obviously, the guards played spectacular tonight, but Oose played a real good game defensively. He got beat a couple of times, but for the most part, held his own with McRoberts and the other Duke bigs down low. What more can be said about the three guards up front? Matthews didn't have a great game, but James played unbelievably well. McNeal played great, too, although I wish he had that take-it-to-the-basket attitude on every possession; I don't like him taking a dribble and a step-back shot, which he tends to do once or twice a game. I'm stoked... for about the first twenty-five minutes, it just felt like a game that Marquette would hang around in but not ever take the lead with. Duke got up five, but that little in-bounds play to James got 'em going. F'n A, Marquette! That was a fun game to watch. Hopefully we'll get to see more here.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 21, 2006 -> 07:46 PM) Please never say that one of our players is "in the clear" again. At least it didn't say he was taking the clear.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2006 -> 06:00 PM) While I certainly wouldn't give him that kind of deal and I don't think anyone will, but I never thought Juan Pierre would get $45 million or the Walker LOOGY would get $3million-$4million a year. I think the way its going, the White Sox are going to have to overpay if they want to sign a free agent, or if they want to acquire good players and/or retain them. I do laugh that Boras says Zito isn't an injury risk. There is no such thing as a pitcher who isn't an injury risk. True dat!!!

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 21, 2006 -> 05:17 PM) Vazquez also has spent most of his career in the NL not having to face DHs. He did pitch pretty well down the stretch, and probably deserved some more wins, however earlier in the season he got some wins when he had no business getting them. It evened out and what you got was a guy a shade under .500 with a mediocre ERA. That is eerily similar to his career stats and he's been around a long time. Personally, I'd advocate a lifetime contract for Kenny Williams if he got real crazy and traded both of them for a couple of big packages. Use the salary relief to sign Zito or Schmidt and you have your rotation intact and have replenished your system. Did you see the demands Boras has for Zito? 7-8 years at around 15-17 mil. They can stuff it for that.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 21, 2006 -> 03:53 PM) If you're reasonably close to Milwaukee, try to make it up to a game this year. The team is freakishly athletic, and as I'm sure you know, has been hyped to death. I fear that the games where the shots don't fall might get ugly, but they're fun to watch when they're going good. ESPN2 tonight. We are! Marquette! I usually get up there for one game the trainer I worked with is still there or see them here in Chicago against DePaul. The games are fun regardless.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Nov 21, 2006 -> 03:53 PM) I have no trouble adding power pitchers to the pen, but I can't see trading one of our starting 5 for pitching prospects. Isn't that what teams out of the race do at midseason? How can you expect to get better pitching back?? It just doesn't compute in my mind. If someone can provide some examples where that has worked, let me know. What I could see is trading one of our starters -- and I'm convinced it has to be Javier Vazquez, both because with a longer contract he should have more value and because I think the trade for him really weakened this team last year -- for a young outfielder with significant potential. Of course, we gave up a young outfielder with significant potential to get Vazquez last year -- Chris Young. Wouldn't it be nice to have him back?? He could be in the mix for CF or LF in 2007, and he could soften the blow when we lose Jermaine Dye in 2008. I'm still not sold on Brian Anderson or Ryan Sweeney (or Josh Fields) as above average outfielders of the future, much less superstars. If we could get someone with significant potential for our outfield -- Lastings Milledge? -- for Vazquez, I would make that kind of deal. But I'm still not seeing GREAT choices out there. I'd almost rather roll the dice again with what we have. Off the top of my head how about Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz? or AJ Pierzynski for Joe Nathan, Fransico Liriano and Boof Bonser or Matt Karchner for Jon Garland or Harold Baines and Wayne Tolleson for Sammy Sosa Wilson Alvarez and Scott Fletcher. We can get better by picking up nearly ready pitching prosepcts to help us in the next couple of years when free agents leave while putting MaCarthy in the rotation. This would not work if we didn't have Macarthy ready.