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QUOTE(AnthraxFan93 @ Dec 16, 2005 -> 01:24 PM) well here in the afternnon I feel he will be fine... He has not pitched since OCT. that's not the type of things they'll look for in a physical. It will be things like how loose the joint capsule is and the structural integreity of the the labrum. These are things that rest doesn't help. Sirotka's injury was structural where the labrum was partially torn from the joint. That being said, he should pass the physical as these weren't the types of problems he was having last year.

From my understanding the number of suspensions is continuous. So if they already got caught once it was a 10 game but the second one goes to 100.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 14, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) I realize he's been a California boy (I assume he's a native cause I know he was the s*** back at Fullerton, Golden Spikes award winner and all that stuff), but wouldn't you think he'd at least consider waiving his no trade clause to go to the defending World Champs (plus Chicago is a really nice city). I'm sure he could talk to Rowand and ask Aaron how he liked it. I know he likes the area. He was very briefly here at Kane County when I was there.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 02:32 PM) It all depends... How great does Mark Buehrle look right now at the $9.5 million he would get in 2007, or Freddy Garcia for $8 million in 2006 and 2007? Some long term deals are damned smart when you look back on how much they get run up in the short term. True but they were 3 year deals. Those aren't what I would consider the long term deals. Guaranteed 4-5 year deals are where I think KW will draw the line. JG will get that from someone else. Not here.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 02:13 PM) I think the Cheat and I are on the same page when it comes to Garland. http://southsidesox.com/story/2005/12/7/03514/0519 Unless the marketplace changes drastically, he is going to get a lot of money, and a lot of years. If this deal is done I think this is the key. I don't think KW would have a problem with offering JG going rate for dollars such as 12 mil. I think the problem is doing it for 4-5 years. Other teams will offer it but most of the time those deals look bad in the later years. If JV comes here for 2 guaranteed years hopefully a minor leaguer will step up and be read y at that time. The risk/benefit analysis of the longer contracts for pitchers is usually not worth it.

QUOTE(SouthSide2004 @ Dec 13, 2005 -> 11:13 AM) I just found this on Foxsports.com from an article Ken Rosenthal posted 40 minutes ago: The White Sox are making a "strong, under the radar" bid to trade for Diamondbacks right-hander Javier Vazquez, according to a source with knowledge of the negotiations. The package of players that the Diamondbacks would receive is not known, though it could include a major-league starting pitcher — perhaps right-hander Jon Garland or Orlando "El Duque" Hernandez — and an outfield prospect such as Chris Young. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5163848 I don't like hearing all this "package" talk when Garland should be more valuable than Vazquez. I also don't like Chirs Young's name jumping into this. Not sure what trading El Duque and prospects would accomplish, but it would definately result in McCarthy in the pen or a trade of another starter. Garland is not more valuable. He has had one good year and is a free agent after 1 year. Players are always undervalued when they are a "rent-a-player" even if they have been consistently good. We may think he turned a corner last year but no one knows. If Hernandez is part of the deal then Young or one of the other top OF prospects probably Young is involved. This is because of the uncertainty of his health and the DBs desire for OF help especially CF.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 05:24 PM) Jason, I read somewhere the White Sox were pretty excited about Lumsden's progress during instructional league. Supposedly he is healthy. that's what I've heard also.

looks like a lot of us will be busy on the 28th

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 12, 2005 -> 11:23 AM) The player decides what he wants to get, not the agent. So the only time there would be an issue is if the agent convinces the player that he is worth more money or years than he is being offered. Player gets more money, agent gets more money. This is then backed up by external offers or where the agent compares the current offer with other similar offers around the league. I agree that the Sox are not in the business of lowballing, they normally give the fair market rate to players, but they also do not over pay anyone, and that is where the problem lies. If Boras convinces Joe that he can get more money, then it is up to him to decide. The bottom line is he is not going to dump his agent just to stay in Chicago. If the Sox make him a fair offer then he stays, if he feels like it is undervalued, then he goes. Which Boras will do this to his clients. But also his negotiating tactics will decide if a player can stay with the original team. Look at Boras' two big clients: Milwood and Damon. He is holding them out until they are the last two queality players at their respective positions. This will get them more money and they have every right to do this. But do you think KW would have waited until Jan. for PK to decide what he was doing? I think KW wouldn't have waited so long to determine who was going to be on the team. In this case, it is the agent's negotiating tactics whichwould have determined that the player not go back to the original team. To say the player decides where he goes and not the agent is many times naive.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:12 PM) Wicky got out of a lot of jams last year, hopefully those men on base get in this year. The Indians, IMO, are not better this year so far, even with the extra year of growth from their players. I think Sizemore and Peralta might have sophomore slumps. We can hope but I really do like both players, offensively and defensively

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) I didn't know those were edible. Especially inflated. that's just his shape. But now that you mention it, he probably would eat it if there were no doughnuts around

QUOTE(winninguglyin83 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 09:06 PM) he'll stay healthy because he keeps himself in such great shape. Beachball?

QUOTE(SoxFanForever @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 05:48 PM) Nice, their options on closer get smaller. I like it. Yes, the weaker the better. The starting staff should be fairly strong with Westbrook, Byrd et al., so let's hope the bullpen weakens

QUOTE(sox84 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 05:27 PM) Just a perspective from an area where you'll hear alot of Cardinal info, I think Sox ownership and front office currently stacks up better than this survey shows. Where the Sox stepped up and added a year to Konerko's contract when it became evident they had to in order to keep him, St Louis did not on Burnette and let him get away to Toronto. Players coming to st Louis are expected to sign for less because its 'such a good environment'. Cardinals are raking in money but not as willing to spend it.. Way to go Kenny and Jerry With Burnette's history of injuries, I wouldn't have added the extra year either. Toronto will regret that deal, not the money per year but the length of the deal.

Has anyone heard the final reason Valido was pulled from the AFL? There was some speculation but I haven't seen a definitive answer.

I just heard on MLB XM that the latest is a deal with Abreu going to the dodgers. Anyone else have any information. I don't see on the board anywhere. Sorry there should a ? in the title but I don't know how to change it. Thank you mods

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2005 -> 11:45 AM) I would say that of course pitching of any sort puts stress on his arm, but because of the way he uses his legs, his pitching tends to put less stress on the arm than the pitching style of say a Kerry Wood or an Eric Gagne...guys who drive the ball much more with their arms. Their fastballs probably put more stress on the arm than Prior's breaking ball puts on his...to say nothing about their breaking balls. Of course pitching puts a great deal of stress on the arm. Most studies show that every pitch puts enough stress on the ulnar collateral ligament to rupture it. However, with proper mechanics, this stress is reduced. I don't know what you mean by driving with his arm but it's the position the arm is put in that makes most of the stress. Legs have bigger muscles and have much more ligamentous stability so that is where the power comes from. The postion in which the shoulder girdle and elbow are placed will mostly determine the stress on the medial side of the elbow which is where these players are having most of their problems.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2005 -> 10:04 PM) I put some of that blame on Baker, however, some of those trips were totally fluke injuries (getting smacked by a baseball, etc.). That said he puts little stress on his arm and the only reason he's had any of the problems he's had is because Baker is a total dips*** when it comes to managing his staff (I was busy saying this the year the Cubs were a few outs shy of making the world series and I guaranteed that half of there rotation would end up being on the DL most of the season). He still pitched 166 innings this past year and has a 200 inning season under his belt. Simply put, if we think AJ Burnett just signed a fat contract, imagine what Prior would get on the FA market. I'm thinking 13-15 mill a year for 5. But if the Phils get Prior they would be getting him at well under market value while if Abreu were to become a FA today he'd probably make right around what he's getting now (if not a little less). Plus pitching >>> hitting and Prior is not even in his prime (Abreu is right at the end of his prime). There are many who will diagree with this statement. He follows the Tom House theory of mechanincs (as does Larry Rothschild). Many believe that these mechanics, especially the manner in which you throw breaking pitches, increases stress on the elbow. I happen to agree that it increases stress on the elbow. Not saying it's right or wrong but many people wil disagree that he puts litlle stress on his arm.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2005 -> 02:24 PM) The lying actually occured when both Maggs and Borass were parading around saying that Maggs was recovering just fine and that he would be working out for any team, yet when asked to he refused to do so, because he had just had a secret surgery done in Austria, but didn't want to tell anyone that. There was more crap in the BS that he threw at Ozzie and Kenny, but the lies were regarding the surgery and his supposed level of health. Everyone knew about the surgery when he was refrred there by the White sox podiatrist (his services were let go soon there after) and he was seen in Austria. That's why everyone was questioning the health of the knee. As for the workout you're right it went from I'll work out for anyone to I'll workout for anyone with written offer of "x" amount, knowing full well noone would do it until they saw the knee and records. Again not bargaining in good faith and probably misleading and lying about the health of the knee in the process. As I stated while this was happening, "I don't believe a word of it." As a matter of fact I would like to see the records on his "sports hernia" surgery which kept him out of most of last year, while coincidently allowed more time for his knee to heal. I still don't like the long term outlook of his knee.

QUOTE(TLAK @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 11:56 AM) The problem with Boras is his lack of ethics. He lies, hides information and breaks his word. For documentation look at his dealings with Texas on the ARod deal (lied about other clubs offers), the whole Magglio situation (hid information on his injury) and backing away from an ARod deal he verbally agreed to with the White Sox (broke his word). While none of these is a crime, they are over the line of honorable dealing among honest men. A funny thing about him is JR describes him as good agent until the player hits free agency, then he becomes impossible to reason with or believe. What he did was not allow anyone to examine Magg's knee or examine the medical records until there was a confirmed written offer on the table. As you said this is not illegal but is not bargaining in good faith. I would not deal with him because of the manner in which he conducts his business either.

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Dec 4, 2005 -> 12:49 AM) 1. Still you can't deny Thome has not been in this sit before. There's still a risk. 2. I know that can happen. I think that's what happen to Belle. But before it gets that bad in will definitely reduce his quality of play. 3. You left out PH/DH. It's his role as a PH that intrigues me the most. If you are correct in stating he won't be healthy then why would any other team take the chance? Shouldn't the White Sox offer him a reasonable deal now that will allow him to rehab at Charlotte to drive ticket sales down there? Won't other teams try to do the same? It seems to me for his years of production offering him a $1M base + incentives with the possibility he might be able to play a PH/DH role in the 2nd half is a smart move. I'm still envisioning Pierre in CF & Ozzie using him at lead-off when he rests Pods. That's a perfect scenario to use Thomas as a PH late in the game & then replace Pierre with Pods. I don't think he would come back to PH. I think he'll get a better offer to DH elsewhere. The Sox have no room for an extra DH while many other teams can offer him for time for DH. I would love for him to come back in the role you stated, I just don't think it will happen.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 02:07 PM) Castillo's also a better hitter than Graffy is. I don't think Graffy is an every day player, as his short swing seems to get longer when he plays more than 3 or 4 days in a row. Especially with the ban on amphetamines now in effect

QUOTE(JUGGERNAUT @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 12:28 PM) I think it is way too early to be singing the swan song. So no matter how we fans want to spin it Thome is a rehabing player coming off major surgery. That is not a sure thing. As for Kong he did not receive a clean bill of health either. A degenerative hip disorder is a significant risk. I would say no less significant than Crede's back disorder. The general consensus with Thomas is that he came back to soon. So we can assume I think that he is going to take more time for the bone to heal this time around. That suggests to me the earliest he would be able to play for any team is after the all-star break. Adding a healthy Thomas to the bench for the 2nd half would act like a mid-season trade. So having Thomas as insurance for the 2nd half is a smart move for the White Sox to make. As long as KW doesn't say anything to offend Frank I think it's in the cards. You are off on a couple of assumptions. 1. Thome had a routine surgery which pitchers return from. A DH will have absolutely no problems returning from this. 2. A degenerative hip is potentially far worse than Crede's back. It will end his career. There is no definite time table but when his career ends it will be due to the hip. That's why the 5 year deal is a stretch. 3. Thomas will not be healthy, I've stated why many times. Do not count on Thomas being healthy. Now, if you want a DH who cannot run to play for a short period of time it may work.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Dec 2, 2005 -> 12:36 PM) A healthy Frank Thomas? Haven't seen one of those in a while. and you won't

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 07:45 PM) I'm sorry, but a 6-7 year deal? Even AJ Burnett isn't trying to wing a 7 year deal. I can only think of 1 pitcher who's even managed to pull that off in history - Kevin Brown. Even Tim Hudson's contract Extension with the Braves was only a 4 year plan. Mike Hampton got an 8 year deal from the Rockies. I can tell you for a fact that the Sox will never give more than a 4-5 year deal to any pitcher. Even those years are unlikely. JR still remembers getting burned on the deals for Dotson, Hoyt and Burns. Dot went down with a shoulder injury and was never the same, Burns wnet down with a hip injury and retired in his 20's and the Sox found out about Hoyt affinity for mind altering substances and traded him for a couple decent players and a future WS winning manager. Remeber Alex Fernandez? He looked a whole lot better than Garland and the Sox refused his 5 year demand. He went to Florida injured his shoulder and disappaered. You can say what you want about what other teams will offer JG but the Sox will not offer him a long term deal. Rightfully so, because pitchers are too fragile (again my bias due to working with the injuries)