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QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Dec 1, 2005 -> 01:56 PM) One would hope that he would get that operated on as soon as the offseason hit, but what do I know. That is correct about his injury, Hoever, with proper therapy most disc problems do not need surgery. I don't know the extent of his injury but it is entirely possible that he will not need it. Hermanson's injury was obviously much worse because he could not pitch with it. Crede only needed minimal time off for the back. The time he missed with the fractured finger helped his back, so he may have needed more time if the finger injury hadn't happened.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 09:54 PM) I think he has a season of 130 or more games left in him. I really do I would love to see it. He was one of the greatest hitters the game has ever seen IMHO. However, I think he will fall into the category of "what would he have done if his career wasn't shortened by injuries" when we bring up his name in 20 years. that injury will be too difficult to come back from, especially consideringhe came back too soon from the first one and it didn't heal well.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 10:28 PM) Im sick when people say we didnt win with Clee, Maggz, Thomas......thats because our pitching sucked back than... our closer was Koch blowing everything and we never had a 5th starter and Garland was mediocre at best. You throw in the pitching staff for the 2004, 2003, 2002 teams they make the playoffs and possibly win the WS too. I agree. However, with a finite budget back then (it's expanding now) it was proven that a team of sluggers adept at scoringruns with a poor pitching staff couldn't win. It was proven that the money put into the pitching staff insteadof the slugging run producers with a medicore offese can win the world series on a similar budget. That's all I'm saying. We couldn't have both so which one won out?

QUOTE(rudylaw @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 08:29 PM) If Frank is healthy next year it would not surprise me to see him with beter numbers than Konerko or Thome frank will never be healthy again. He may be able to tolerate the pain enough to play (at least a little) but he will never be "healthy."

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 06:59 PM) The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter what Kenny or Ozzie think. If Frank can play.. IF.. Jerry will bring him back in some capasity. The fact right now is that Frank is still walking around in a boot and is still in pain. If the season started tomorrow he would retire. And it's my belief that that's what will happen. I agree. The first fracture was bad enough. Now getting a second fracture in a bone that small while the screw from the first surgery will be extremely difficult to come back from. With all of the previous foot problem and the stress he puts on it, I'm doubtful he will ever be near painfree. With all of that, unless something drastic happens I see retirement in the near future.

QUOTE(Steff @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 02:19 PM) 3-4 months is what I heard. As of Friday 11/18 he had not yet had it. I'll see if I can get an update. thanks I would appreciate the update. I know I ask about the injuries but it's my field and my interest. If you don't want to post it for everyone you can always PM me. As with all rehabs some go well and some don't. Most athletes are in better shape than most people and the rehab goes faster. Hermy (Schneider not Dustin) is good at what he does so I don't see many complications.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 01:34 PM) Last I read, his back was making it harder and harder to pitch with any regularity. And with his age, and given the nature of lower back issues, I think it's likely. It has NOT been confirmed or reported, this is my own opinion, given his condition. Sorry, if some people have replied but I haven't read the entire thread yet. The surgery for his back will not require him to miss a year. The typical rehab is 3-6 months. I do not know if he has had surgery. Someone (i think Steff) said he was definitely going to have it. I haven't heard that personally but the rehab isn't long compared to others.

QUOTE(mr_genius @ Nov 30, 2005 -> 09:17 AM) i would say the vast majority of Sox fans didn't know about it. People have known about it since his minor league days.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 11:41 PM) Isnt an arthritic hip what prematurely ended Albert Belle's career? I hope this isnt the same condition As Steff said it is, but it is not as advanced as what Belle's was at a similar age. It is a degenerative condition and there isn't a whole lot that can be done about it. It just needs to be monitored to see the changes. The biggest thing is to maintain his flexibility to keep the range of motion needed to play.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 29, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) Jim, I saw earlier in the thread a suggestion of Marte + Sweeney for Pierre. Nomahhhhh! But I know you're also (somewhat) on board with that idea, so we're on the same page there. No. But, what correlates better to scoring runs? Batting average, or SLG%? It's SLG% -- and OBP, for that matter (not sure which correlates better, but I'm confident in saying SLG% and OBP correlate better to scoring runs than BA does). Pierre's OBP is very batting average heavy. So -- if he has a year in which he doesn't hit for a BA above .300 -- he ends up with a line like last year -- .276/.326/.354. Oh -- but I forgot about all the havoc he'll cause on the basepaths... Oh but I forgot, this is the formula the Sox used to win thn the World Series when the high SLG lineup of Mags, Thomas, Lee, Valentin etc. couldn't. Stats can show the run production and predict wins but the style we used last year always does better than the predictions. The Twins beat us when the run production predictions said we should have beat them and we beat EVERYBODY last year when the run production stats said we shouldn't have made the playoffs. Stats are fun for discussion but pitching and defense are the main components of winning. (sorry, end of rant)

I would be very reluctant to do a five year deal with anybody. I guess it's my bias because of the inuries I've seen. Hitters with chronic hip problems also worry me for a long term contract. All that being said, it would very tempting to sign him to the deal if it stays around 13 mil/year. If it goes much higher I would look for an alternative. If LA signs PK they won't need Kendry Morales or Kotchman, maybe we could trade for one of them.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 28, 2005 -> 02:46 PM) Ventura got lowballed by Schueler. He made him an offer that wasn't close to what he was being offered elsewhere. I agree, Ordonez was ripped for his comments, but he also was called greedy. People should bow to him. If he re-signed with the Sox, the wait would be up to 89 years now. I don't think he was low balled ( ). The Sox made a fair offer, the Mets made him the highest paid third baseman at the time. I think the Sox turned out right because I don't think Ventura ever played like it. That being said he is one of my top three favorite Sox players of all time.

QUOTE(hi8is @ Nov 27, 2005 -> 06:41 PM) what is wrong with credes back? something about hernated discs? Yes, two herniated discs in the lumbar spine. Sometimes these can be treated conservatively without surgery and there are no siginificant reoccurances. Without knowing the severity it's hard to tell. If it can be done without surgery, Hermy should be able to help him through it. I think the we will know how severe it is by how much money they spend on a back up, as someone stated earlier.

Remember it will take two innings for Hernandez to warm up. Ozzie will need to plan well in advance to use him in the pen. Plus, is it worth it to have a guy pissed off to be in the pen and can only work sparingly? I just don't think it's a good fit for a whole year.

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 09:33 PM) Its now out that the Indians were also trying hard for Thome. The Phillies turned down a dealing centering around Coco Crisp and David Riske. Glad he is here and not with the Tribe. With what we had to give up to get Thome, I figured the Tribe must have been offering a pretty damn good package. If this is true, I would have taken the Tribe's offer. Maybe they wanted the Phillies to eat even more of the contract.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) I am convinced herm needs a trainer himself. I mean look at him when he waddles out... Don't you blasphem (sp?) in here!!!!!

I still don't think Hernandez can be a bullpen guy. With his shoulder condition it takes too long to warm up. I also don't think he'll accept it well and someone will need to bemoved from the rotation.

QUOTE(gosox41 @ Nov 24, 2005 -> 07:53 AM) I agree. IMHO, Frank is a more productive player then Thome when healthy. They're both coming off injuries. Frank had a broken bone, Thome had elbow surgery (along with chronic back problems). Who's to say that Frank is higher risk to suffer another injury over Thome. Can Jim's right elbow handle the stress of 500+ plate appearances in a season + batting practice (need to have timing) and who knows how many swings he's going to take. The way I see this trade for the 2006 season is Anderson can do what Rownad did in 2005 so it's break even their. If PK leaves this trade looks great. If he stays then I don't see how this team is any better unless someone can guarantee that Thome will be healthy for a full season where as Frank wasn't healthy for most of 2005. It seems like a lot of risk (including financial) for very little reward considering that Thomas can hit 40+ HR's and have a ton of walks. Bob Believe me the Thomas injury is much worse. He had two separate fractures in a bone about an inch cubed in volume. The reason he didn't have a second surgery is that there is no room in the bone to do another one. Thomas' injury as I stated last seaon was career threatening with the first one let alone the second. He could very well be done. In contrast, Thome's elbow is fixed. It's a fairly routine procedure now. He is just doing rehab. The back may flair up but is definitely not career threatening at this point. There is minimal risk compared to Thomas.

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 07:42 PM) I just hope your avatar doesn't happen to him, ouch! Actually, that is the motion that the ligament prevents. I didn't think of that before.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:07 PM) I'd have to think that injury had an effect on his swing. Without being able to extend your elbows, you definately can't extend your hands and your going to have a lot of trouble. Thome is the type of guy that makes zero excuses, but there is no doubt in my mind it had an effect (hell I hope it did, otherwise we just made a mistake, lol). The injury did not effect his ability to straighten his elbow. The ligament in question keeps the forearm from going away from the humerus (valgus motion). This strtches the unlar nerve and the tissue on the inside of the elbow. It is nearly impossible to throw with this condition. Since he throwa righted and hits left handed its his front arm that is effected. This injury would cause pain or numbness in his hand and forearm on his follow through of the swing. My best guess is that he injured early in the season tried to play through it (which caused the poor performance) and shut it down due to the symptoms.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:29 PM) If were going with unprovens (and I think Rocco is over-rated, although very talented) we might as well stick with our in-house guy of Brian Anderson. Just my 2 cents. I think Anderson has more all around ability than Rocco. Good suggestion though. The main reason I don't see Anderson as the answer (this year) is because Ozzie wants a 2 hole hitter. Thats been documented and I am 99% sure that won't be Guchi (he'll slide down in the lineup replacing Aaron and do a better job, imo). Anderson obviously is not capable of being a 2 hole hitter (at least not now) so you'd have to find someone. The big sleeper I'd go with is Milton Bradley. He can handle the bat and has all the tools (not as quick as he once was) but he has boughts with laziness and is a racist that doesn't fit in the clubhouse. Very talented but one of the biggest jerks in the game. I don't think he's the kind of guy KW and Ozzie want for the team. All of this being said I agree that we should just stick with BA. I believe KWand Ozzie think it is time to get him MLB playing time.

QUOTE(knightni @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:26 PM) Baldelli isn't that much better than Anderson, IMO. Maybe. He has proven hi9mself at the major league level and is definitely faster. He fits the "speed guy" Ozzie wants more than Anderson does.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 06:19 PM) Rafael Furcal moving to CF Darin Erstad (can't play CF really) Figgins (Angels won't deal him) Milton Bradley (Sox won't go for him...plus injury problems..plus not as fast as he used to be) Johnny Damon (probably too much money...hell of a hitter though) Vernon Wells (not a typical 2 hole hitter) Carl Crawford (I think he's over-rated) Ichiro??? Soriano (move him to CF) I still think Pierre makes the absolute most amount of sense. I was thinking Rocco Baldelli. Another guy coming off an injury on a team with a surplus at the position. KW might be able to swing a good deal with a new GM in Tampa.

QUOTE(GasHeGone @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 05:53 PM) Does anyone think Thome was on the juice and maybe that has something to do with his injury and horrible '05 stats? This is not the type of injury you get from steroid abuse. Those usually involve tendon or muscle problems (contractile tissue). Thome's injury was a ligament. (non-contractile). You can't definitely say it's not but it's very unlikely.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Nov 23, 2005 -> 05:11 PM) If you want to trust Pat Gillick, the new Philly GM's words, Thome is in the "Best condition he's been in for 3 or 4 years". With the rehab he is going through I don't doubt it.